16x16 HDMI Switch - end of me and C4?

[chesterwilson]

its about as "hidden" as C4' date=' crestron and many other companies.

anyway there is the price info for the zektor 8x8 HDMI matrix switch (sorry the cat5 out version has not been released yet). They have 2 versions. the basic version is the Clarity HD and has an MSRP of $5388 and the Clarity HD Elite (4U, audio breakaway and many more features) is $7848.00[/quote']

Not really but if you say so, you must have missed that entire thread about Zektor and MSRP.

Exactly.

It isn't hard to find the MSRP of any product from Control4, Crestron, etc...except for Zektor.

I challenge you to try and find it outside of a confidential document with limited distribution.

Additionally, Zektor only decided to have a MSRP after they were blasted on this forum for not doing so.

If I remember correctly the initial argument was to protect there integrators (while screwing the end user).

[digitaltrader]

Zektor was supposed to have this switch (cat5e output) out over a year ago. I'm starting to think it was made for RTI/URC only given the unending deadline misses. Their website is worthless and lack of MSRP is deceptive. They may be a dealers dream and the switch might work well, but the whole situation makes me run in the opposite direction as a consumer.

[chesterwilson]

Zektor was supposed to have this switch (cat5e output) out over a year ago. I'm starting to think it was made for RTI/URC only given the unending deadline misses. Their website is worthless and lack of MSRP is deceptive. They may be a dealers dream and the switch might work well, but the whole situation makes me run in the opposite direction as a consumer.

I thought they would come out with a cutting edge solution (i.e. an 8x8 matrix with integrated hdbaset). The Atlona product is very nice, but ridiculously priced.

[ILoveC4]

Zektor was supposed to have this switch (cat5e output) out over a year ago. I'm starting to think it was made for RTI/URC only given the unending deadline misses. Their website is worthless and lack of MSRP is deceptive. They may be a dealers dream and the switch might work well' date=' but the whole situation makes me run in the opposite direction as a consumer.[/quote']

I thought they would come out with a cutting edge solution (i.e. an 8x8 matrix with integrated hdbaset). The Atlona product is very nice, but ridiculously priced.

They are, just ask Jeff. I'm sure it's coming "soon".

I'm with digitaltrader on this on. They're sending all the wrong signals. He doesn't even come on here to try and defend it anymore.

[Ranger620]

Hey guys, was just reading this thread and have the urge get a HDMI matrix for my system.

An 8x8 Matrix would be perfect for my setup. I'm having a hard time understanding just how I would set it up for my system. Currently I have all my gear in one rack and I have HDMI cables run from my receivers to the TV's around my house. I use a component matrix to switch all my sources to each receiver then the receiver converts it to HDMI and sends it to the displays.

With a single centralized rack like I have how would I utilize a HDBaseT matrix because as I see it, I would plug my sources into it (PS3, XBMC, Satellite, Bluray Changer, etc) and then a CAT 5e (or 6) cable to the display. How do I get audio to my amps or receivers with this setup?

Looking at the Atlona 8x8 Matrix http://www.atlona.com/Atlona-HDBaseT-8-by-8-HDMI-Matrix-Switcher-over-CAT5e-6-7.html

What would be an ideal way to utilize this matrix?

Thanks.

[ILoveC4]

Hey guys, was just reading this thread and have the urge get a HDMI matrix for my system.

An 8x8 Matrix would be perfect for my setup. I'm having a hard time understanding just how I would set it up for my system. Currently I have all my gear in one rack and I have HDMI cables run from my receivers to the TV's around my house. I use a component matrix to switch all my sources to each receiver then the receiver converts it to HDMI and sends it to the displays.

With a single centralized rack like I have how would I utilize a HDBaseT matrix because as I see it, I would plug my sources into it (PS3, XBMC, Satellite, Bluray Changer, etc) and then a CAT 5e (or 6) cable to the display. How do I get audio to my amps or receivers with this setup?

Looking at the Atlona 8x8 Matrix http://www.atlona.com/Atlona-HDBaseT-8-by-8-HDMI-Matrix-Switcher-over-CAT5e-6-7.html

What would be an ideal way to utilize this matrix?

Thanks.

Cat cable goes to the HDBaseT receiver, at which point an HDMI cable would go out into your A/V Receiver.

Snap A/V has a great looking 8:8 coming out soon.

[jberger]

You guys are being a little hard on the zektor guys, almost every manufacturer has missed their stated HDMI shipping deadlines over the last 8 months. There have been a lot of changes in the market, plenty of chipset restrictions, floods, tsunami's etc and it's played hell with everyone's schedules.

HDBaseT chipsets have not been as easy to build into the chassis in the matrix over 4x4 so it's taking everyone a lot of extra engineering, and testing. (This was a major topic at CEDIA this year).

[chesterwilson]

You guys are being a little hard on the zektor guys, almost every manufacturer has missed their stated HDMI shipping deadlines over the last 8 months. There have been a lot of changes in the market, plenty of chipset restrictions, floods, tsunami's etc and it's played hell with everyone's schedules.

HDBaseT chipsets have not been as easy to build into the chassis in the matrix over 4x4 so it's taking everyone a lot of extra engineering, and testing. (This was a major topic at CEDIA this year).

Personally, I can deal with delays, I just never appreciated the hidden pricing aspect of Zektor's business model. I soured on them real quick and really see no compelling to reason to consider them as of yet.

[ILoveC4]

You guys are being a little hard on the zektor guys' date=' almost every manufacturer has missed their stated HDMI shipping deadlines over the last 8 months. There have been a lot of changes in the market, plenty of chipset restrictions, floods, tsunami's etc and it's played hell with everyone's schedules.

HDBaseT chipsets have not been as easy to build into the chassis in the matrix over 4x4 so it's taking everyone a lot of extra engineering, and testing. (This was a major topic at CEDIA this year).[/quote']

Personally, I can deal with delays, I just never appreciated the hidden pricing aspect of Zektor's business model. I soured on them real quick and really see no compelling to reason to consider them as of yet.

Ditto. I understand delays. It was his whole attitude toward the pricing that turned me off.

[thecodeman]

I had heard that the hdbaset stuff being shown wasn't actually even a chip in the tv for example, it was a module like a balun, internally, that used hdmi to connect to the tv's board.

Ah, here's where I read it. Interesting, if true, and slightly related to topic.

http://www.cepro.com/article/hdbaset_still_dreams_of_major_ce_adopters/

[well_armed]

I want to eliminate the god forsaken HDMI cable forever...

[ichbinbose]

I want to eliminate the god forsaken HDMI cable forever...

that would be fantastic.

of course you know what ever comes out to replace it, that is "better" will probably cause as many if not more issues

[turls]

I hate to keep bringing this up, but again why would you limit yourself to a set amount of inputs and outputs when JustAddPower is an option? Yes it needs a $700-$800 switch, but what am I missing? I don't want to be at input #5 with a 4x4 or output #17 with a 16x16 and then have to juggle stuff. I know the 2G+ stuff isn't quite out yet either. I don't think the price is going to end up being that outrageous for the flexibility you get. And I also know it is basically a proprietary solution...

[ILoveC4]

I hate to keep bringing this up, but again why would you limit yourself to a set amount of inputs and outputs when JustAddPower is an option? Yes it needs a $700-$800 switch, but what am I missing? I don't want to be at input #5 with a 4x4 or output #17 with a 16x16 and then have to juggle stuff. I know the 2G+ stuff isn't quite out yet either. I don't think the price is going to end up being that outrageous for the flexibility you get. And I also know it is basically a proprietary solution...

It has some shortcomings. The biggest being a compressed signal and lower picture quality, plus very limited audio options. Delayed switching times, etc... It is very flexible, but limited in a lot of respects. I want a straight up HDMI passthrough.

[chesterwilson]

I hate to keep bringing this up, but again why would you limit yourself to a set amount of inputs and outputs when JustAddPower is an option? Yes it needs a $700-$800 switch, but what am I missing? I don't want to be at input #5 with a 4x4 or output #17 with a 16x16 and then have to juggle stuff. I know the 2G+ stuff isn't quite out yet either. I don't think the price is going to end up being that outrageous for the flexibility you get. And I also know it is basically a proprietary solution...

1. Proprietary (as you have stated)

2. Dealer install and programming costs

3. Expensive switch (as you have stated)

4. Network stability

I never received a quote but an hdmi matrix was reasonable for me:

4x4 Monoprice Matrix $150

4 HDBaset extenders $760

Total Cost: $910

I would be shocked if the JAP solution could touch that, how much would the JAP solution including programming and switches cost. Additionally, how much does it cost to expand the system (i.e. JAP sender/receiver and programming costs)?

I'm sure JAP has it's place in big installs, it just wasn't feasible for my small install.

[turls]

I hate to keep bringing this up' date=' but again why would you limit yourself to a set amount of inputs and outputs when JustAddPower is an option? Yes it needs a $700-$800 switch, but what am I missing? I don't want to be at input #5 with a 4x4 or output #17 with a 16x16 and then have to juggle stuff. I know the 2G+ stuff isn't quite out yet either. I don't think the price is going to end up being that outrageous for the flexibility you get. And I also know it is basically a proprietary solution...[/quote']

It has some shortcomings. The biggest being a compressed signal and lower picture quality, plus very limited audio options. Delayed switching times, etc... It is very flexible, but limited in a lot of respects. I want a straight up HDMI passthrough.

I thought compression/quality was being taken care of by 2G+ (I realize that is currently vaporware), and the switching times were great with the newest firmware/upgrades. What's the issue with audio?

[turls]

Additionally, how much does it cost to expand the system (i.e. JAP sender/receiver and programming costs)?

Very good question, especially on the programming. Once I buy in, I don't want to have a dealer involved every time I add an input or output.

[chesterwilson]

Additionally' date=' how much does it cost to expand the system (i.e. JAP sender/receiver and programming costs)?[/quote']

Very good question, especially on the programming. Once I buy in, I don't want to have a dealer involved every time I add an input or output.

According to their website the sender/receive cost $599 each, for a whopping total of $1198 plug programming and install (2G product).

If I wanted to do 4in/4out that is $4800 plus programming and installation.

Is it really worth spending at least $4k more (plus switch and programning/install costs) just so that I have the capability to expand easily in the future? Especially when each I/O cost $1198?

That's the way I see it, correct me if I am wrong on the JAP pricing concept though.

[chesterwilson]

I forgot to add the HDBaseT extenders support 4k resolutions, does JAP?

Not a big deal now, but 2k and 4k TV's will be the next thing once the 3D hoopla is over.

[thecodeman]

I thought compression/quality was being taken care of by 2G+ (I realize that is currently vaporware), and the switching times were great with the newest firmware/upgrades. What's the issue with audio?

JAP 2G address compression quality by using similar compression in blu-ray - a "lossless" compression vs the lossy compression previously used.

"Advanced Video Processor

Just Add Power HD/IP™ technology uses powerful video processing to encode the HDMI® transmission as TCP/IP packet data. The HDMI® signal is broadcast across the network and decoded back to 1080p video at the display in real-time with zero detectable latency. This revolutionary technology achieves bit rate savings previously unachievable, enabling Ethernet LAN to carry the HDMI® signal with very minimal, or in the case of the new 2G models, zero visual loss. HD/IP™ uses a proprietary encoding and decoding process, similar to that used in such applications as Blu-ray Discs, iTunes Store HD video downloads, DVB-HD broadcasts, direct-broadcast HD satellite television services and cable HD television services.

Advancements in processor performance mean that HD/IP™ 2G can now deliver visually lossless HDMI® video quality. The 2G platform utilises a newly developed, fully patented video compression engine and a proprietary lossless codec. "

[turls]

Additionally' date=' how much does it cost to expand the system (i.e. JAP sender/receiver and programming costs)?[/quote']

Very good question, especially on the programming. Once I buy in, I don't want to have a dealer involved every time I add an input or output.

According to their website the sender/receive cost $599 each, for a whopping total of $1198 plug programming and install (2G product).

If I wanted to do 4in/4out that is $4800 plus programming and installation.

Is it really worth spending at least $4k more (plus switch and programning/install costs) just so that I have the capability to expand easily in the future? Especially when each I/O cost $1198?

That's the way I see it, correct me if I am wrong on the JAP pricing concept though.

I think you are on the right track, but you are somewhat comparing apples to oranges. Once you go above 4x4, I think it gets dicey with any solution (huge price increase). You are also using Monoprice as a baseline, which I'm not sure I would trust for video matrixing. I'm sure if Monoprice had a 8x8 or a 16x16, it would be nice to at least compare.

[turls]

One more thing I would like to run past the group, checking my logic on JAP vs. "limited" 4x4, 8x8, etc. solutions:

I have a ton of sources and a ton of video zones. However, I have video zones like guest baths, garage, etc, that I could "share". So I take one JAP receive piece and matrix it with something cheap like a Monoprice solution with HDBaseT extenders. This way, I get the advantage of having an odd number of sources and receivers. So I could do, for example, a 10x10, but really it would be a 10 (send) x 5 (receive), because I would "share" a lot of the receivers.

I could also potentially switch sources, but I think that would be a lot more limiting and complicated to program.

Basically I have a lot of receive zones that either won't get used often or it is no big deal if they have to share with other common areas. I think that is a huge advantage for JAP. Its just a question of even getting to that point is too expensive vs. the competition...

[thecodeman]

It has some shortcomings. The biggest being a compressed signal and lower picture quality, plus very limited audio options. Delayed switching times, etc... It is very flexible, but limited in a lot of respects. I want a straight up HDMI passthrough.

Compression isn't an issue with 2G anymore, I've seen it in person back in Sept 2010 after the 2g product launch that summer.

Delayed switching times was resolved last year with an update to the 2G firmware - it switches instantly like the 1G product does.

With regards to audio - "The 2G solution supports a wide range of PCM and compressed audio formats up to 7.1 multi-channel audio. This includes Dolby Digital, DTS, and THX. " While they don't do "lossless audio" like TrueHD or DTS-MA, for those zones (typically a dedicated theater or some kind of surround room) people often will have dedicated sources.

Also, don't forget that JAP has the 3D manager which is pretty slick - turning 2D displays into 3D displays.

[thecodeman]

One more thing I would like to run past the group, checking my logic on JAP vs. "limited" 4x4, 8x8, etc. solutions:

I have a ton of sources and a ton of video zones. However, I have video zones like guest baths, garage, etc, that I could "share". So I take one JAP receive piece and matrix it with something cheap like a Monoprice solution with HDBaseT extenders. This way, I get the advantage of having an odd number of sources and receivers. So I could do, for example, a 10x10, but really it would be a 10 (send) x 5 (receive), because I would "share" a lot of the receivers.

I could also potentially switch sources, but I think that would be a lot more limiting and complicated to program.

Basically I have a lot of receive zones that either won't get used often or it is no big deal if they have to share with other common areas. I think that is a huge advantage for JAP. Its just a question of even getting to that point is too expensive vs. the competition...

I guess you could split it with an HDMI splitter.

[Ramorous]

One more thing I would like to run past the group' date=' checking my logic on JAP vs. "limited" 4x4, 8x8, etc. solutions:

I have a ton of sources and a ton of video zones. However, I have video zones like guest baths, garage, etc, that I could "share". So I take one JAP receive piece and matrix it with something cheap like a Monoprice solution with HDBaseT extenders. This way, I get the advantage of having an odd number of sources and receivers. So I could do, for example, a 10x10, but really it would be a 10 (send) x 5 (receive), because I would "share" a lot of the receivers.

I could also potentially switch sources, but I think that would be a lot more limiting and complicated to program.

Basically I have a lot of receive zones that either won't get used often or it is no big deal if they have to share with other common areas. I think that is a huge advantage for JAP. Its just a question of even getting to that point is too expensive vs. the competition...[/quote']

I guess you could split it with an HDMI splitter.

Yeah a splitter in that case would work. If you only have the one receiver for the room and multiple TVs, then you will still only get one source in the end and you can split it amongst the outputs in that room/area.