jfh Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 I would like to go through the Control4 training / certification process at my own expense. I would like to use the training to develop drivers and provide support. 1) Is there a way to do this through Control4 directly? If so, can anyone provide a contact? 2) If not, if there is a dealer here that would sponsor and/or consider hiring me as a part time remote employee (at a token or less than market rate - income is not a big consideration for me). If so, please PM me. I am very proficient with PCs/software, a heavy Composer HE user/programmer familiar with the additional function of Pro. I have a strong background in I/T architecture, systems/application programming, systems test, root cause analysis. I also spent 5 years in sales/marketing, 3 years doing turn-key systems design/implementation (and related negotiations/ contract writing) I am bondable and have previously held government security clearances. . I love new stuff and A/V gear and HA in general. I have an extremely flexible schedule and could provide onsite support in the Denver area, but would prefer to do work remotely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 You can apply to Control4 and pay to register as a developer... Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mandiola Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 10 minutes ago, msgreenf said: You can apply to Control4 and pay to register as a developer... Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk I tried that and the only information sent back to me was to become a dealer, which is not an easy process without having an existing AV company. I inquired a couple times about developing only and received nothing back which is frustrating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Could contact Houselogix or TheDriversLab - as 3rd party providers for drivers, they are more likely to know the hows and whats of that process than dealers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Yeah. I don't know the process either Sent from my STV100-1 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannemi Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 They Problem with registering as a developer is it doesn't give you access to Composer PRO, unless they have changed that. JFH, Let me know if you find out anything about this, I myself would love to do this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfh Posted March 5, 2016 Author Share Posted March 5, 2016 2 hours ago, Cyknight said: Could contact Houselogix or TheDriversLab - as 3rd party providers for drivers, they are more likely to know the hows and whats of that process than dealers. Thanks, I'll try that. But based on some other info, I have a sinking feeling that the only way someone new is going to able to do this is to become a dealer. in the mean time, if any dealer wants a smart programmer that works for peanuts, PM me. Part of the goal here is to obtain whatever certification / credentials are required to be a Control4 certified programmer/installer/whatever the term is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfh Posted March 5, 2016 Author Share Posted March 5, 2016 49 minutes ago, cannemi said: They Problem with registering as a developer is it doesn't give you access to Composer PRO, unless they have changed that. Seems like that would make developing/testing the driver harder than it needs to be. One of my goals would be able to have a license for Pro. But I'd really be interested in the C4 training itself. 49 minutes ago, cannemi said: JFH, Let me know if you find out anything about this, I myself would love to do this Will do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanchow Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 In the past 3rd party developers could register via 4store. Now from my understanding the only way to get access to development material is if you work for a dealer or distributor or you are a hardware manufacturer who wants to certify your product in Control4. msgreenf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave w Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 andddddddd that's why their market growth is so slow. jfh and Dale Mulcahy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfh Posted June 1, 2016 Author Share Posted June 1, 2016 For anyone interested - I have had no one contact me and the only response I got from Control 4 was "contact your dealer to have them develop a solution to meet your needs." I guess C4 is happy having a just a handful of developers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 On 3/4/2016 at 1:17 PM, jfh said: One of my goals would be able to have a license for Pro And that is where the problem lies... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfh Posted June 1, 2016 Author Share Posted June 1, 2016 Are you telling me that developers don't have licenses for Pro? How would you install / test a driver without it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 2 hours ago, jfh said: Are you telling me that developers don't have licenses for Pro? How would you install / test a driver without it? no, i think what Cy is saying that the reason you want to be a developer is to get Pro.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfh Posted June 1, 2016 Author Share Posted June 1, 2016 A reason, but not the only reason. I would start by writing drivers to add function to my system that I think might be beneficial to others and then expand to support new devices/function. Given that I'm willing to pay what would probably be thousands of dollars to take the training courses to learn how to exploit the power of C4 (I'm sure, like many, I use a fraction of its capabilities), learn best practices and then donate my time to develop/expand function available for C4 users (I have no burning desire/need to monetize my development efforts), I don't think being allowed to have/pay for a Pro license after going through official C4 education is unreasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Understand that I'm not attacking you specifically on this - but what I truly meant is that access to being a developer was closed down upon because people were using it to try backdoor into having PRO. You may think it's not unreasonable to have/pay for PRO after doing education - but the fact is that C4 has shown no intend to have anyone other than dealers have access to PRO - trained or not. Why/reasonability/smart choice/right or wrong aside - you can discuss on here all you want, but that's there standpoint. Just because you want something, doesn't mean you have a 'right' to get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy.trochez Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 OP, no dealer in the forums will offer you a license. You have to reach out to your local dealers and be employed by one before you can get a license or training. Also, try reaching out to your local sales rep, he or she might have advice for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfh Posted June 1, 2016 Author Share Posted June 1, 2016 4 minutes ago, Cyknight said: Understand that I'm not attacking you specifically on this - but what I truly meant is that access to being a developer was closed down upon because people were using it to try backdoor into having PRO. All that shows is that corporate is paranoid and short sighted. 4 minutes ago, Cyknight said: You may think it's not unreasonable to have/pay for PRO after doing education - but the fact is that C4 has shown no intend to have anyone other than dealers have access to PRO - trained or not. Why/reasonability/smart choice/right or wrong aside - you can discuss on here all you want, but that's there standpoint. I understand their viewpoint - the official position seems to be "we only want people properly trained to have access to Pro to ensure customers have the best experience with Control4" when in reality it is "we don't care if you are trained or not, Pro is the Holy Grail we use to protect an outdated dealer model" 4 minutes ago, Cyknight said: Just because you want something, doesn't mean you have a 'right' to get it. Agreed. But then there is the whole "do I have the right to control the equipment I've paid a small fortune for?" argument. When known problems go unaddressed for months/years, new devices get only rudimentary function (if they get drivers at all) and there are maybe two dozen developers in the entire world, something is wrong. Only a fraction of dealers have the programming background or interest in developing quality drivers (and I would argue that most dealers wouldn't want to develop drivers even if they had the skill/desire to do so, primarily because of the time/costs involved). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfh Posted June 1, 2016 Author Share Posted June 1, 2016 26 minutes ago, etrochez said: OP, no dealer in the forums will offer you a license. You have to reach out to your local dealers and be employed by one before you can get a license or training. Also, try reaching out to your local sales rep, he or she might have advice for you. Thanks. All of those avenues have turned out to be dead ends. I offered to pay all costs involved and work for minimum wage (or less). No interest, even though one dealer has commented about how cool my C4 programming is. No one is interested in a "software only" guy (because of physical limitations, I can't do most install work, cable running, climbing ladders, etc.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy.trochez Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 There has to be a way to get in a developer program or something like that. Hopefully somebody with knowledge will pop in and give you some info. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 1 hour ago, jfh said: All that shows is that corporate is paranoid and short sighted. No, what it shows is that that was exactly what was happening. 1 hour ago, jfh said: Agreed. But then there is the whole "do I have the right to control the equipment I've paid a small fortune for?" argument. An argument you will loose in short order quite frankly. Go tell Apple you want the ability to have access freely to the root OS on any of their products. Understand that I'm actually pretty uncaring on the whole general discussion on who should have access to what, as in don't care one way or the other, except that C4 has a hard enough time to keep tech support running smooth for a dealer only model as it is - thus my belief is that opening it up would be a disaster in that regard (as things stand now). funnyfarm299 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 1 hour ago, jfh said: No one is interested in a "software only" guy (because of physical limitations, I can't do most install work, cable running, climbing ladders, etc.) Sorry to hear you've been told that - it wouldn't hold true as such here though. Because I can tell you I almost never run wires (other than my own house - and boy do I find that I've done it very little lately at the moment), and am rarely involved in installing gear, and even don't do any major wiring at the rack anymore. A good programmer's time is too valuable (in the sense that it's a much more uncommon resource - not so much in monetary value) to spend it on anything but programming and troubleshooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfh Posted June 1, 2016 Author Share Posted June 1, 2016 10 minutes ago, Cyknight said: A good programmer's time is too valuable (in the sense that it's a much more uncommon resource - not so much in monetary value) to spend it on anything but programming and troubleshooting. I agree 100%. But apparently C4 management and many dealers don't understand that. One local dealer I know uses their top programmer (and apparently the only one that knows anything other than bare bones stuff) as the lead installer on most projects, so getting any programming work done - no matter how simple - requires 3-5 weeks lead time. I thought they would jump at my offer, because all I heard is how back logged they are, but not being able to do the physical work made it a non-starter. C4 clearly doesn't want good programmers or have any interest in developers/programmers - they just want dealers, whether they do anything with programming/development/services or not. The dealers I have contacted outside this forum don't give a damn about software or programming - they just want to sell hardware and installation (makes sense - that's where the $ is). Most admitted they don't sell much in the way of programming services and none seem to have considered the additional revenue stream that could be generated by having ongoing software services sales - all understandable if you don't have a services mindset or a belief that the only way to make money involves a truck roll. (And the support problem you reference C4 has is of their own making. One of the reasons support has such a hard time keeping up is because everything is severely bottlenecked and many times has to be relayed through a dealer that doesn't understand the problem. C4 doesn't want to invest in adding resources to address the problem or to change the model to prevent the support bottlenecks in the first place. All that does is add to customer (and I'm sure some dealer) frustration. And problems with support clearly hinders growth/expansion, leaving any hope of significantly growing market share a pipe dream). Cy - your Apple example is flawed, but I did not intend for this thread to become another "should Pro be opened up debate?" I want to see a way more resources can be brought into the C4 ecosystem, in a controlled fashion and under C4 standards. I want the challenge (and fun) of doing development work (and software support) without having to open up a typical dealership to do it. I'm sure there aren't many willing to pay for their own training just to have the ability to use Pro, but there should be a path for those that are. Those folks are far more likely to promote and market C4 than a lot of existing dealers seem to be doing. Imagine if you were a dealer and there was a certified C4 software specialist working with/marketing to customers in your area. Software guy recommends a C4 solution that requires additional equipment/install. "I only do programming, but I'm sure dealer x nearby would be glad to help you". Win-Win-Win. Dale Mulcahy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Just now, jfh said: C4 clearly doesn't want good programmers or have any interest in developers/programmers - they just want dealers, whether they do anything with programming/development/services or not. C4 has little to do with that particular matter directly though - which doesn't make it any less of a flaw of the dealers. 1 minute ago, jfh said: (makes sense - that's where the $ is). Except that it isn't really - but you have to be/have someone knowledgeable enough to do it first, and be able to sell it (and properly estimate time) second. That's where the problem is, neither is all that easy to 'do'. ajw 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfh Posted June 1, 2016 Author Share Posted June 1, 2016 1 hour ago, Cyknight said: Understand that I'm actually pretty uncaring on the whole general discussion on who should have access to what, as in don't care one way or the other I know that you do. But it seems like the only ones that don't think there's a problem are those that have Pro. 1 hour ago, Cyknight said: except that C4 has a hard enough time to keep tech support running smooth for a dealer only model as it is - thus my belief is that opening it up would be a disaster in that regard (as things stand now). I would submit that folks with a technical or programming background would generally need to use tech support far less than many dealers do now and would be able to do a lot of the initial legwork that C4 support does now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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