wappinghigh Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 HDMI is a total crock of SH!t. Complete rubbish. This has been the greatest con trick of all time as Hollywood colluded with the AV industry to stitch up and control content to the detriment of good law abiding folks (who simply want to get a nice easy to use audio visual set up happening with the minimum of cost and fuss) Some where along the history of this atrocious state of affairs, the word HDMI was "lost in translation".. as Hollywood and the media barons just expected (and continue to expect) AV manufacturers will roll out nice easy to use equipment (that happily "just works" and talks together via HDMI)! What a TOTAL farce. Hollywood has forgotten NOTHING is actually made in English speaking countries anymore.. It's ALL made in Japan, China, Vietnam or Korea!!. HAHAHAHA. HDMI was supposed to bring a "I just need ONE cable for everything" consumer experience. It was NOT supposed to be designed so the digitalisation of audio and video could be hijacked by inefficient, backward looking rent seeking content providers. The latest episode in this deplorable state of affairs is HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 Then there is the so called "Audio return" channel: which is supposed to send back audio from that brand new TV you so proudly purchased > back along that 100 dollar HDMI cable you purchased, back to that (20X as expensive) brand new receiver with ARC "compliance"... GOOD LUCK WITH THAT! I hope ya'll ran that separate long run of digital audio cable back as well before plastering...... you did do that right??? LOL!!!! As for HDCP 2.2.. what a total debacle. MAKE SURE you DIY research and ensure EVERY new HDMI chip in that video and audio chain is HDCP 2.2 or you will be forever plagued with the so called "dumb down"... and the "handshake" nightmare... LOL I thought a handshake was supposed to be warm, welcoming and forgiving...!!!! hahahaha good luck with that SUCKERS! P.S... Oh.. BTW... your dealer DID tell you about HDMI handshake issues .....right?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 welcome back wap, glad to see another on-topic post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted July 22, 2016 Author Share Posted July 22, 2016 10 minutes ago, msgreenf said: welcome back wap, glad to see another on-topic post Ha! It's a total pleasure. Enjoy the FACTS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 HDMI has had the goal of content protection since it's inception. I cannot believe Control4 hasn't single handed taken on "the industry" to abolish DRM and HDMI. I'm going to go yell at them and everyone that likes their products!!! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 It's not a trick - it's never been denied that it is just that - copy protection options. This was news....10 years ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegreatheed Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted July 22, 2016 Author Share Posted July 22, 2016 "Zone lock" is Trumpeted (pun intended) as some wonderful new feature of a 10K+ HDMI matrix product. What he heck is "Zone lock"? I tell you what zone lock is. It's one giant expensive bandaid put on (what should be) a fantastic new AV product. A 10K product like this shouldn't need zone lock.. It should give the consumer what he/she expects (as advertised) from a 10K product. Any source (at maximum quality) in any room, at any time. Zone lock is a great example of the abomination that is HDMI. And the dead end that it has headed. HDMI is (supposed to be) "retro compatible". ie old HDMI gear/standards will not interfere with the maximum potential quality of brand new equipment LOL! Yet the custom installers industry and association just lets this happen. When was the last time anyone heard someone stand up at one of their meetings, or trade fairs, or read their press statement that HDMI robs their customers of a great new experience? Nope. They just parrot out the same old nonsense about how wonderful this new "improved" HDMI 2.0 4K (or whatever) is going to be! These guys just roll over and take it straight from Hollywood and the barons. They are as weak as.... Bring on Trump. Luve or hate his politics, if he is going to remove regulation (to make American industry great again), could I so boldly suggest companies like Control4 and organisations like CEDIA suggest to President Trump that he starts with DRM and HDMI>>?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 Clearly you have no clue how zone lock works. I'll give you a clue - it has nothing to do with copy protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin L Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 Well this looks like a fun thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 They always are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted July 22, 2016 Author Share Posted July 22, 2016 ^ Is it my fault I don't know precisely what Zone lock is? Yeah I know it has nothing to do with copy protection. Still doesn't mean it aint necessary to stop handshake issues and needed so that lesser quality HDMI gear stops interfering with new stuff right? Care to argue how adding it as a feature wasn't necessary in order to make HDMI products work better together and as they should??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegreatheed Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted July 22, 2016 Author Share Posted July 22, 2016 Just now, thegreatheed said: hahahaha AWESOME! that's it!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 Well this looks like a fun thread Look at the OP...would you expect any less? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted July 22, 2016 Author Share Posted July 22, 2016 In my OP, I stated HDMI was supposed to bring a "I just need ONE cable for everything" consumer experience. Yep. Sure. I get all you guys points on that. This is where the consumer vs AV Industry/Hollywood disconnect truly lies... and is the essence of the con trick. See... all the benefits of digitalisation were sold/marketed/Trumpeted as providing a better "all in one cable" "future proof" audio/visual distribution experience. Meanwhile behind the scenes what they were really doing was colluding to stitch up digitalisation to support their crony protectionism.. My bad. So let me rephrase that statement.... The consumer thought HDMI was going to bring a "I just need ONE cable for everything" consumer experience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 47 minutes ago, wappinghigh said: Is it my fault I don't know precisely what Zone lock is? No, but don't criticize something for doing something it doesn't. 49 minutes ago, wappinghigh said: Care to argue how adding it as a feature wasn't necessary in order to make HDMI products work better together and as they should It is ONE way of doing things though - not the ONLY way. YOU (the consumer in general, myself included) want to keep using existing sources and sinks, yet also get the greatest and latest. In addition you want it all still centralized - AND you want it for a measly 10k (yep - it could be 20-50k or even more if you want the latest and greatest indeed). So a solution was made (some time ago I might add - you're a year or maybe even two behind on this as well) - and now it's a bad thing? Zone Lock exists to allow a mixed environment of resolutions whiel maintaining top rez for the better sinks, and can also be used to circumvent poorly designed source problems in some scenarios. I'm NO fan of HDMI by any means, but the issue normally arises when source or sink developers cut corners - which, by the way, are usually NOT full partners in the HDMI alliance. Now you're using those that work the extra mile to create a solution as ammo for... content protection? No it wasn't necessary - it's a solution among several solutions that make it NOT necessary to lock (pun intended) yourself into a limiting list of sources and sinks that play nice together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 58 minutes ago, wappinghigh said: hahahaha AWESOME! that's it!!!! Except that it never was great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Lowe Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 I for one agree. Hdmi is constantly an issue in installation, with equipment in the tens of thousands, it can be very frustrating for us and unimaginable for the consumers. im fighting no audio now even in my own system just on one source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted July 22, 2016 Author Share Posted July 22, 2016 44 minutes ago, Cyknight said: Zone Lock exists to allow a mixed environment of resolutions whiel maintaining top rez for the better sinks, and can also be used to circumvent poorly designed source problems in some scenarios. I'm NO fan of HDMI by any means, but the issue normally arises when source or sink developers cut corners - which, by the way, are usually NOT full partners in the HDMI alliance. Now you're using those that work the extra mile to create a solution as ammo for... content protection? Thanks for the great explanation on Zone Lock CY. Appreciate it. I however believe the content protection<>source sink developers issue is interlinked (or not as the case may be!) That in time, eventually, there would be no need for solutions like "Zone Lock" if HDMI became "open"... Are not those very same source sink developers who are "cutting corners" and not members of the HDMI alliance, cutting corners for the very reason to try get around DRM and HDMI content protection ?? I'm sorry for being confused. It's just I can't help thinking that HDMI technology would be better implemented without all the protectionism. That manufacturers would have a much easier chance of making it all work together without it.. A Naive proposition? If there was no such "protection", would there be any need for an HDMI "alliance".... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted July 22, 2016 Author Share Posted July 22, 2016 I would assume the two large electronics giants Sony and D&M Holdings (Marantz) are both members of the "HDMI alliance"? Therefore would not a consumer expect the ARC HDMI feature of two brand new products purchased from the above (well known and highly respected and established) manufactures to "just work" via an HDMI 1.4 compliant cable... Given ARC is a well established (now "old") 1.4 HDMI protocol ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Lowe Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 Problem is Content providers do not want their media on unprotected formats. I have had 4k 60 hz on my desktop using Display port now for years and never once need to re sync. Only reason they want protection for their media are against those who do not pay for their content. It's understandable if the equipment worked, but it has been our experience it does not. Samsungs new 4k Blu-ray is a prime example. had displays that would not even display it unless at 1080p or not at all Had devices that were only connected on the audio only port and would have to be power cycled every-time inputs were changes to grab the audio I do not even want to know how it behaves in a distributed environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Lowe Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 just for clarity the new standard is HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted July 22, 2016 Author Share Posted July 22, 2016 1 minute ago, Matt Lowe said: Problem is Content providers do not want their media on unprotected formats. I have had 4k 60 hz on my desktop using Display port now for years and never once need to re sync. Only reason they want protection for their media are against those who do not pay for their content. It's understandable if the equipment worked, but it has been our experience it does not. Samsungs new 4k Blu-ray is a prime example. had displays that would not even display it unless at 1080p or not at all Had devices that were only connected on the audio only port and would have to be power cycled every-time inputs were changes to grab the audio I do not even want to know how it behaves in a distributed environment. Yeah.. EXACTLY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 Yeah.. EXACTLY So you don't think content owners should be able to control how their content is consumed. That is your main argument, right? Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted July 22, 2016 Author Share Posted July 22, 2016 7 minutes ago, msgreenf said: So you don't think content owners should be able to control how their content is consumed. That is your main argument, right? Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk Incorrect. I am not against paying for content. All my content is always paid for. My main argument is the way content providers have gone about controlling and protecting content, has placed an extra cost/burden/hassle and poor viewing experience onto good law abiding citizens. In effect they end up with a WORSE experience than the cheats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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