Garage Door Opener Hardware

[Don Cohen]

I had previously posted about options to open my (2) Garage Doors, wanting integration with my Control4 system.  I think I've identified the correct solution and hardware, but since this is an older garage door motor (Overhead Doors Signature Screw Drive, 1/3 HP, Model 930CD/A), I'm wanting confirmation before I order and hook things up.

The plan is to have a single Z2IO, which can be configured for 2 Relays.  This will be plugged into the power near one of the Garage Door Motors, with a pair of wires going to each of the 2 motors.

I would buy a pair of the Nyce Tilt Sensors which will connect using Zigbee to my Control4 system (the Garage is immediately next to my family room, where there is an EA-1 and multiple light switches, so hopefully signal strength will be good).

I've attached captures from the Z2IO manual, the Wiring Diagram from the Garage Door Manual, and a photo showing the connections from one of my motors, highlighting the relevant connection points.

So, I guess I would just connect the Z2IO to Connectors 1 and 2 on each motor?  Does it matter which wire goes to which Connector (C1 or C2 for one, C3 or C4 for the other)?  Or am I missing some compatibility or other electrical issue?

And since this is my first time, excuse my ignorance, but what type of wire would I use?

Thanks!

[sonic30101]

You should get 2 z2ios if you have 2 garage doors to control. Both R1 ports to the 2 button wall control terminals. Then common and C3 to a magnetic sensor for feedback of the doors status. That way no tilt sensor or batteries to deal with

[Don Cohen]

Thanks for the reply. 

Yes, that's what I was looking at originally. That would be a bit more expensive, and a bit more cumbersome in terms of wiring. The Nyce battery is supposed to be good for several years.

I might go with that, but the same questions I asked would still apply, regardless of which way I go, what wires to use, etc.

Thanks again. 

[sonic30101]

R1 and R1 get connected with a short pigtail to ports 1 and 2 of the motor leaving the red and white wires on the terminals. polarity doesnt matter as pushing the wall button just shorts the 2 together. Then R2 and R2 to the same ports of the other motor 

[Don Cohen]

54 minutes ago, sonic30101 said:

R1 and R1 get connected with a short pigtail to ports 1 and 2 of the motor leaving the red and white wires on the terminals. polarity doesnt matter as pushing the wall button just shorts the 2 together. Then R2 and R2 to the same ports of the other motor 

I thought I would just wire the Z2IO to the same terminals where the red and white wires are connected; are you saying I need to connect them elsewhere ("...to ports 1 and 2 of the motor...")? Or am I misunderstanding you?

Does Voltage enter this in any way?  Some things I've read suggested that this can be a factor, that this approach wouldn't work with all motors, etc.  That's a big part of why I posted.

Appropriate wire type/gauge?

Thanks, and excuse my ignorance.  I'm pretty good with tech in general, but my electrical background is my biggest weakness; but trying to learn!

[chopedogg88]

Install one z2io over one motor and run wires from r1 into motor 1, and from r2 to motor 2 (preferably route the wire through the ceiling if not too difficult). Nyce tilt sensor on each door. Done.

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[Don Cohen]

7 minutes ago, chopedogg88 said:

Install one z2io over one motor and run wires from r1 into motor 1, and from r2 to motor 2 (preferably route the wire through the ceiling if not too difficult). Nyce tilt sensor on each door. Done.

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Thanks - that's what I was hoping.

This would imply it's a universal solution, that would work with any brand, model, type, age of garage door motor.  Some things I've read suggested that isn't the case, which is why I asked.

And would the wires simply connect to the same terminals where the current red/white motor wires are connected or do they need to be somewhere else?

Any specific requirements for the type/gauge of wire?

[chopedogg88]

Yes they connect to red and white. You can use cat5 or any thin gauge wire (not stranded). This doesn't work if you have a MyQ opener. Any other standard/dumb opener should be fine. If it's myQ then you are better off just buying the driver for $200 and saving yourself the wiring and cost of z2io.

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[ejn1]

2 hours ago, chopedogg88 said:

Install one z2io over one motor and run wires from r1 into motor 1, and from r2 to motor 2 (preferably route the wire through the ceiling if not too difficult). Nyce tilt sensor on each door. Done.

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Chopedogg88, Is the tilt sensor as reliable as the GE magnetic relays?

[chopedogg88]

I don't know about GE relays specifically but yes I have found them to be very reliable.

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[ejn1]

2 hours ago, chopedogg88 said:

I don't know about GE relays specifically but yes I have found them to be very reliable.

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Thanks.   I have one z2io controlling 2 garage doors but I dont have open/close status.    Why do you need 2 z2io's?  Couldnt just add a Nyce on each garage door and use one z2io?

[chopedogg88]

Yes I never said you need two z2ios

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[ejn1]

 

2 hours ago, chopedogg88 said:

Yes I never said you need two z2ios

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Thanks wanted to make sure as early in the thread it mentions 1 z2io over each opener.   I have one z2io over the the wall buttons which are already wired to each opener.

[Cyknight]

1 Z2IO would do the relay AND sensor for a garage door - it wouldn't be able to do both those things for TWO garage doors, but yes you can certainly control 2 doors with it.

Sensing could be done by a second Z2IO placed closer to the doors to wire rail sensors, could use tilt sensors, could use existing sensors to a security panel as well.

 

Personally, preference is security, rail sensor to Z2IO (or similar) last being a battery tilt sensor. Less batteries is better. But any of them do work.

[Don Cohen]

Thanks Cyknight.

Agreed, that all else being equal, wired offers benefits.  In this case, though, I'm leaning toward the Battery-powered sensor just for the convenience factor.  Having to change it out every few years isn't a big deal, but your point is valid.

[WhyPhy]

3 hours ago, Don Cohen said:

This would imply it's a universal solution, that would work with any brand, model, type, age of garage door motor.  Some things I've read suggested that isn't the case, which is why I asked.

As chopedogg88 said, shorting terminals doesn’t work for MyQ door openers. To test that it work for you garage door, take a screw driver and short it between the two terminals on the door. The door opener should start moving the door up/down immediately, just like pressing the button on the wall. 

[Don Cohen]

I appreciate all the replies and info.

One thing I'm hoping to do is, once I upgrade to 3.1, is to be able to control the Garage Door, among other things, with Google Assistant.

In my bedroom, where we did not install any Control4 gear, I have a Google Nest Hub and a few smart bulbs, just for kicks.  I was driving home the other day, and since I use my Hyundai's Android Auto interface, thought of telling the Google Assistant to turn on the bedroom lights, not really expecting it to work.  But I got home, and the lights did in fact turn on!

This opens up all kinds of cool options: when driving, and getting near my house, I can issue a voice command to the Google Assistant, and program it to not only open the Garage Door, but also unlock the door to the house, turn on the lights, etc.  Our Security System isn't yet integrated with Control4, but if/when I do that, that would be another option to add.

Pretty cool stuff!

[ejn1]

5 hours ago, Cyknight said:

1 Z2IO would do the relay AND sensor for a garage door - it wouldn't be able to do both those things for TWO garage doors, but yes you can certainly control 2 doors with it.

Sensing could be done by a second Z2IO placed closer to the doors to wire rail sensors, could use tilt sensors, could use existing sensors to a security panel as well.

 

Personally, preference is security, rail sensor to Z2IO (or similar) last being a battery tilt sensor. Less batteries is better. But any of them do work.

Just for clarity though, can one z2IO control the 2 doors with sensing if you use the wireless tilt sensor?

[Don Cohen]

1 hour ago, ejn1 said:

Just for clarity though, can one z2IO control the 2 doors with sensing if you use the wireless tilt sensor?

Well, just reporting back what was confirmed to me, you can use the 2 Relays on the Z2IO to control the motors on 2 garage doors.  You would then need 2 sensors, one for each door, to monitor their status.  That could be done with a pair of tilt sensors, or with another single Z2IO, using its 2 available Contacts.

The tilt sensors can be used on their own, while the 2nd Z2IO would need 2 sets of door contacts to wire to.

[Cyknight]

3 hours ago, ejn1 said:

Just for clarity though, can one z2IO control the 2 doors with sensing if you use the wireless tilt sensor?

 

1 hour ago, Don Cohen said:

Well, just reporting back what was confirmed to me,

The answer is indeed YES.

You need one relay to control (almost any) garage motor, so you CAN control 2 of them with it. C4's garage door integration allows binding most any relay and sensor to the driver - they do NOT have to b e on the same device.

 

Note that as mentioned, MyQ or similar garage doors cannot be relay controlled on the motor itself, you'll have to solder to the push button (or an extra push button) to use relay control - or use the available 3rd party MyQ driver from drivercentral.io

[Don Cohen]

I installed, configured everything today, and it's all working as desired.  2 Garage Doors.  There is one glitch that I think I've eliminated, but can't understand the basis for it, so:

Hardware:
1 Z2IO
2 Nyce Garage Tilt Sensors, 1 for each door

Drivers:
1 for the Z2IO
1 Nyce Driver for each Tilt Sensor
1 "Generic Garage Door Sensor" for each door (each with a Contact and Relay Connection) (as recommended by the Z2IO and Nyce Install PDF's)
1 "Generic Door Lock Driver" for each of the Door Motors (as recommended by the Z2IO Install PDF)

Connections:
Z2IO:
SPST Relay 1 to "Generic Garage Door Sensor" #1, Relay
SPST Relay 2 to "Generic Garage Door Sensor" #2, Relay

Nyce Sensor #1 to "Generic Garage Door Sensor" #1, Contact Sensor
Nyce Sensor #2 to "Generic Garage Door Sensor" #2, Contact Sensor

"Generic Door Lock Driver" #1 and "Generic Door Lock Driver" #2 - no connections

"Generic Garage Door Sensor" #1, Relay connected to Z2IO SPST Relay 1 (as per above)
"Generic Garage Door Sensor" #2, Relay connected to Z2IO SPST Relay 2 (as per above)

As I said, everything works perfectly.  I can open/close each door from my App, which shows the correct open/close status for each door.

But:

At one point, neither garage door would respond when the actual regular physical button was pushed.  If I then opened or closed the door from the App, the button would again become responsive.  It seemed that it occurred after the doors were programmatically closed from Control4, but I'm not certain.  But it did happen more than once.

Initially, I had both the "Generic Door Lock" Drivers and the "Generic Garage Door Sensor", connected to the Z2IO Relays.  I *think* that the problem stopped once I removed the Generic Door Lock Driver connection.

My question is how is this even possible?  What could be happening within Control4 that would prevent the actual Garage Door buttons from functioning normally??

Thanks!

[Don Cohen]

Ok, it occurred to me in the middle of the night that I inadvertently created some redundancy, by following the Instructions for each device blindly, too literally:

Since the 'Generic Garage Door Sensor' Drivers (that I added for the Nyce sensors) contained both a Contact Sensor *and* Relay control connections, for each door, that adding the 'Generic Door Lock' Drivers (recommended in the Z2IO Instructions), which had only a Relay control connection for each, was unnecessary, and created a redundancy.  When I had the Relays for both of these Drivers connected to the Z2IO, it created some type of conflict.

And since I removed the connections for the 'Generic Door Lock' Drivers, that Driver now does nothing: no connections, no function.  So they can be deleted without impacting anything.

Correct?

But that still leaves the original question, of how and why, under certain circumstances, pushing the actual original garage door buttons did not open or close a door: no response at all.

I can understand how my misconfiguring Drivers and Connections could screw up Control4 operation of the Doors, but how could this misconfiguration prevent the original door button from closing the circuit, and triggering the door to open or close??

I'm new with this, so be patient - simply trying to learn by reading, trying, experimenting, etc.

Thanks.

[Don Cohen]

On 9/28/2019 at 7:12 AM, Don Cohen said:

Ok, it occurred to me in the middle of the night that I inadvertently created some redundancy, by following the Instructions for each device blindly, too literally:

Since the 'Generic Garage Door Sensor' Drivers (that I added for the Nyce sensors) contained both a Contact Sensor *and* Relay control connections, for each door, that adding the 'Generic Door Lock' Drivers (recommended in the Z2IO Instructions), which had only a Relay control connection for each, was unnecessary, and created a redundancy.  When I had the Relays for both of these Drivers connected to the Z2IO, it created some type of conflict.

And since I removed the connections for the 'Generic Door Lock' Drivers, that Driver now does nothing: no connections, no function.  So they can be deleted without impacting anything.

Correct?

But that still leaves the original question, of how and why, under certain circumstances, pushing the actual original garage door buttons did not open or close a door: no response at all.

I can understand how my misconfiguring Drivers and Connections could screw up Control4 operation of the Doors, but how could this misconfiguration prevent the original door button from closing the circuit, and triggering the door to open or close??

I'm new with this, so be patient - simply trying to learn by reading, trying, experimenting, etc.

Thanks.

Still hoping to understand this better.  Any ideas, especially on the 2nd question in bold, welcome.

Thanks.

[sonic30101]

The relay is set in composer's properties to normally closed. Did it have a light on it and is it off now

[Don Cohen]

Thanks for the reply.

I assume you mean the Z2IO itself?  If so, the LED is Off, and other than when I added it to the Project to begin with, I don't recall seeing it on.  In its Properties in Composer the LED is set to Off (by default, apparently, as I didn't make any changes there).

What is your thinking here, as I'm not following where you're going with your question?