rf9000 Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 All, We are constructing a home with a covered patio in which we will be placing Infratech electric 240v patio heaters, probably five of them. I want to integrate these into C4. Each of these heaters has dual elements that can be wired separately. Turn one element on for low setting and both elements for high setting. Infratech make a sort of in wall dual switch for this. They are kinda ugly though. They also make a control interface to integrate with C4, but it is ridiculously expensive, like $5000. So I wondering if you all have some ideas. I know I could just hook them up to a C4 light switch for on and off capabilities, but them I would not get the low and high settings, I would get either low or high. Does C4 make anything that acts as a dual switch? I also know that the heaters can be turned up and down in intervals like 20%, 40% 70%, etc. Would a dimmer work in this situation? Just looking for some ideas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic30101 Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 The only ones we integrated were infratech which had inputs that we put 0-10v dimmers on down in a utility room and they worked perfectly Darkimedes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rf9000 Posted February 9, 2020 Author Share Posted February 9, 2020 42 minutes ago, sonic30101 said: The only ones we integrated were infratech which had inputs that we put 0-10v dimmers on down in a utility room and they worked perfectly Do you mean you just wired the 0-10V dimmers in line and they were perfectly? Do you remember if they were single or dual element heaters? Also these are 240v so would I use the C4-TV240? I'm just wondering on the dual element heaters, would I need to wire one dimmer to each element? That would be a little odd then right because I would have two dimmers for each heater and would have to turn the elements on separately if I wanted low and high? Or would there be a way to set something up in C4 where even if there were six separate dimmers (3 dual element heaters), we could program 3 dimmers (one from each heater) to be activated when "LOW" is selected and then program the other three dimmers (additional ones from each heater) to be activated when "HIGH" is selected? The best scenario would be if we could wire one 0-10v dimmer to each heater that when dimmed t high levels that the second element would automatically kick on and when dimmed to lower levels the second element would turn off and only one element would heat. I dont know if this is possible though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo1738 Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 I have same situation with 2 heaters but we decided we are ok with just on/off. We are getting 2 of these https://www.elkproducts.com/product-catalog/elk-9200-heavy-duty-relay-contactor in the basement, will hook to control devices and my installer said should work. Make sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo1738 Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 6 hours ago, rf9000 said: Do you mean you just wired the 0-10V dimmers in line and they were perfectly? Do you remember if they were single or dual element heaters? Also these are 240v so would I use the C4-TV240? I'm just wondering on the dual element heaters, would I need to wire one dimmer to each element? That would be a little odd then right because I would have two dimmers for each heater and would have to turn the elements on separately if I wanted low and high? Or would there be a way to set something up in C4 where even if there were six separate dimmers (3 dual element heaters), we could program 3 dimmers (one from each heater) to be activated when "LOW" is selected and then program the other three dimmers (additional ones from each heater) to be activated when "HIGH" is selected? The best scenario would be if we could wire one 0-10v dimmer to each heater that when dimmed t high levels that the second element would automatically kick on and when dimmed to lower levels the second element would turn off and only one element would heat. I dont know if this is possible though The infratech 4000w and higher I think have 16 amps which is too much for the C4 switches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rf9000 Posted February 9, 2020 Author Share Posted February 9, 2020 5 hours ago, Neo1738 said: I have same situation with 2 heaters but we decided we are ok with just on/off. We are getting 2 of these https://www.elkproducts.com/product-catalog/elk-9200-heavy-duty-relay-contactor in the basement, will hook to control devices and my installer said should work. Make sense? So if I had five heaters I would need five of these? Also, how does this exactly work then? Each heater is tied to one of these boxes and then these boxes are tied to the C4 system somehow? How is that done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rf9000 Posted February 9, 2020 Author Share Posted February 9, 2020 5 hours ago, Neo1738 said: The infratech 4000w and higher I think have 16 amps which is too much for the C4 switches. Are you saying then that the outlet that the 9200 plugs into is tied to a regular C4 switch so that it can be turned off and on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rf9000 Posted February 9, 2020 Author Share Posted February 9, 2020 5 hours ago, Neo1738 said: The infratech 4000w and higher I think have 16 amps which is too much for the C4 switches. Could also make something a bit smaller like this that they use for hot water heaters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rf9000 Posted February 9, 2020 Author Share Posted February 9, 2020 1 hour ago, rf9000 said: Are you saying then that the outlet that the 9200 plugs into is tied to a regular C4 switch so that it can be turned off and on? 50 minutes ago, rf9000 said: Could also make something a bit smaller like this that they use for hot water heaters Or this I think is all that would be needed mounted inside a metal box. Looks like it is 240 volt line in and 240 volt line out, with 120V circuit to activate it https://www.supplyhouse.com/Honeywell-DP2030B5004-120-Vac-2-pole-Definite-Purpose-Contactor-30-A?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIsIGkvdDE5wIVEdvACh28JAqsEAQYAyABEgJa4fD_BwE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hizzle Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 I just did the same thing with our home. We installed 2 of the 6000W heaters. It has to be wired with 240v and each one of the elements needs it's own heavy duty switch. This is what I used. Aeotec Heavy Duty Smart Switch, Z-Wave Plus controller, 40 ampshttps://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MBIRF5W/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Again, you'll need one per element, or two per fixture (depending on the size you purchased). These are easily controlled by my Vera z-wave controller and then assigned as a relay to the Heater Driver in Control4. This way it doesn't look like a "light bulb" and gets put into the Comfort Menu. evil0ne 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rf9000 Posted February 9, 2020 Author Share Posted February 9, 2020 3 hours ago, Hizzle said: I just did the same thing with our home. We installed 2 of the 6000W heaters. It has to be wired with 240v and each one of the elements needs it's own heavy duty switch. This is what I used. Aeotec Heavy Duty Smart Switch, Z-Wave Plus controller, 40 ampshttps://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MBIRF5W/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Again, you'll need one per element, or two per fixture (depending on the size you purchased). These are easily controlled by my Vera z-wave controller and then assigned as a relay to the Heater Driver in Control4. This way it doesn't look like a "light bulb" and gets put into the Comfort Menu. Ok, question then. Can I wire one element from each heater to be activated on a low setting, and then the other element from each heater to be activated on a high setting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rf9000 Posted February 9, 2020 Author Share Posted February 9, 2020 1 minute ago, rf9000 said: Ok, question then. Can I wire one element from each heater to be activated on a low setting, and then the other element from each heater to be activated on a high setting? Alos are these just wired in line? So, electrical panel > Aeotec> Infratech heater? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hizzle Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 1 hour ago, rf9000 said: Alos are these just wired in line? So, electrical panel > Aeotec> Infratech heater? Yes, mine are inline because I didn't want extra physical switches on the patio. To your other point about low and high, it's one element on for low, two elements on for high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rf9000 Posted February 9, 2020 Author Share Posted February 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Hizzle said: Yes, mine are inline because I didn't want extra physical switches on the patio. To your other point about low and high, it's one element on for low, two elements on for high. Yes, this is what I mean. Could I not just wire one element from each heater and group those together in programming to come on when low is selected. Then the other elements together to function with high? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hizzle Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 1 minute ago, rf9000 said: Yes, this is what I mean. Could I not just wire one element from each heater and group those together in programming to come on when low is selected. Then the other elements together to function with high? You should be able to. I wanted independent control of each zone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo1738 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 Mine is wired basically the same way and then you integrate the 120v outlet into the project instead. That being said I have the 4k watt slimline so mine only need 1 element. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkimedes Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 Did these with RadioRA2 and the 0-10v modules. Use the expensive panel on this site, and you won't have any issues. Full control and "dimming" available. customers always loved, just create a room called heaters to reduce confusion. You'll need a 0-10V dimmer for each zone you are trying to dim. http://infratech-usa.com/products/controls/home-management/ sonic30101 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rf9000 Posted February 10, 2020 Author Share Posted February 10, 2020 4 hours ago, BakerBalay said: Did these with RadioRA2 and the 0-10v modules. Use the expensive panel on this site, and you won't have any issues. Full control and "dimming" available. customers always loved, just create a room called heaters to reduce confusion. You'll need a 0-10V dimmer for each zone you are trying to dim. http://infratech-usa.com/products/controls/home-management/ I just can't stomach the price. The Universal panel would also work. I know what components are involved, about $500 in parts and they want $5500 for it. Tough thing to buy to control heaters that are only $700 each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rf9000 Posted February 11, 2020 Author Share Posted February 11, 2020 13 hours ago, rf9000 said: I just can't stomach the price. The Universal panel would also work. I know what components are involved, about $500 in parts and they want $5500 for it. Tough thing to buy to control heaters that are only $700 each. So attached below is my plan. Please forgive me for the crude drawing. I will explain as it may be confusing. Staring at the electrical panel, I would have (5) 240v circuits. These circuits would be split into two at junction boxes located right beside the electrical panel. This is just to get enough power to feed 10 of the definite purpose contactors. These contactors are basically like a relay that allow 240v power to move through them when they are energized. They are energized by 120v power. the is 120v power will come from outlets that are tied to regular C4 switches. So the idea is to wire each element from each heater separate and then group them together. In other words, the five definite purpose contactors (one for each element from each heater) will be grouped together for LOW setting, and then the other five definite purpose contactors for the other five elements from each heater will be grouped together for HIGH setting. In C4 then I would only have two switches for the heaters. One label LOW which would turn on one element from each heater and one switch labeled HIGH that would turn on the second element for each heater. Please let me know if that was confusing or what your thoughts are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkimedes Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 16 hours ago, rf9000 said: I just can't stomach the price. The Universal panel would also work. I know what components are involved, about $500 in parts and they want $5500 for it. Tough thing to buy to control heaters that are only $700 each. Totally understand that sentiment from the view that it is your house. If you don't need that fine of control, then the High/low/off option does work. Coming from the contractor side, where the homeowner is already making a significant investment in the structure, wiring, controls, and landscaping, I would bid the control panel as the first or best option. Your design would be my second or Better design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Vermont Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 All, I am installing 1 - 4000W infratech heater on my patio and am trying to figure out a way to dim the heater without paying the $1000+ for the Infratech custom controls. I am wondering if anyone has found any solutions for dimming the 4000W heater other than the Infratech custom control box? Even better would be a smart dimmer that would work for the 4000W heater. Separately has anyone had any experience with the hanging height of these heaters? The recommendations are 7' for a 3000W heater and 8' for a 4000W heater. Would a 4000W heater be super hot at 7' (I'd prefer to hang the 4000W at 7' and be able to dim it ... hence the first question). Thanks, Thomas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceanDad Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 I have Infratech via C4. Could dim them, but we never do. When we need them on, we are very happy to have them at full blast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo1738 Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 I got simple Elk Relays for my 2 heaters cost $160 total way cheaper than control box but only have on and off. 7' Would probably be too warm a good deal of the time mine are 12' so we only use full anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GadgetBazza Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 On 2/9/2020 at 7:21 AM, Neo1738 said: The infratech 4000w and higher I think have 16 amps which is too much for the C4 switches. Im not sure on the Infratech specs, but if there are two circuits (high and lo), then there will need to be 2 feeds, each providing half the power of the unit, so 4000W unit, two feeds of 2000W. I have a 6kW unit (not infra tech but another brand) which utilises two circuits at 3kW each, roughly 13Amp. We have these controlled by a C4 8 channel 16Amp relay. There are 4 inputs that can be wired on the unit, each with 2 outputs (that's the 8 way), each input can handle up to 16Amps across the two outputs related to it. So we wired, one 3kW heater feed to one of the first pair, and the second 3kW to the second pair, leaving roughly 3Amps of capacity on each of those pairs, so we have put low power lighting on each of the other two circuits to make use of the extra switching capacity if that makes sense. So basically as long as your load requirement doesn't exceed 16Amp, you should be able to use the C4 8 channel relay unit (non dimming version)? I wouldn't however recommend loading them at max current, particularly if there is an in-rush of current when the devices are switched on. I had a lighting puck rated for 400W which kept blowing with a 300W load of fluorescent lamps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo1738 Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 It's 220v so you only have 1 feed as far as I know. I have a 25A fuse for each heater. At least the slimline 4000w only has 1 feed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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