ILoveC4 Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Yeah, I found out what the price break will be. You buy a new one at full price, then send your old one in for a small credit. In the instance I asked about (a wireless contact sensor) the credit you receive is $22. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaltrader Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 So when are the new compatible devices due to be released? C4 should have informed their partners long ago of these issues so that they can release hardware that will be compatible with at least a firmware upgrade months before the change in C4 protocol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecodeman Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 So when ae the new compatible devices due to be leased? C4 should have informed their partners long ago of these issues so that they can release hardware that will be compatible with at least a firmware upgrade months before the change in C4 protocol.I'm going to guess that they will be ready when 1.8 is out, and that date will probably be made known at CEDIA. Since 1.8 is not a recommended upgrade, it gives them time to ramp up production further by the time Zigbee Pro hits the masses in 2.0, whenever that becomes available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigrzeye Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Will a customer still running director version 1.7.3.20 be able to buy new hardware, i.e. a c4 dimmer switch or additional c4 controller, that will still work with their system without requiring a version upgrade after 1.8 or 2.0 hit?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akg4y Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Yeah, I found out what the price break will be. You buy a new one at full price, then send your old one in for a small credit. In the instance I asked about (a wireless contact sensor) the credit you receive is $22.Thats really irritating.. so essentially I just spent around $1000 on hardware that will be obsolete in less than 6 months and theyll give me a total of around $100 credit for it? If thats the case Card-Access wont be part of my home automation anymore, Ill just start running wires rather than give them any more money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecodeman Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Will a customer still running director version 1.7.3.20 be able to buy new hardware, i.e. a c4 dimmer switch or additional c4 controller, that will still work with their system without requiring a version upgrade after 1.8 or 2.0 hit??I would say so, because there's still going to be a lot of pre-zigbee pro devices out there that are unsold that came from the factory with 1.7.3.20 or before. Just make sure your dealer puts the right ones in your project. It will even cause more confusion in the second hand market - I can see it now that someone will buy 10x dimmers that are ZPro or a remote that's been upgraded and it wont work with their system...Now, new things that require zigbee pro that you want, like the zigbee door locks from Black and Decker... if you want those in your project you'll have to upgrade to 1.8 or later, whichever version has that driver in it. So, it's not a simple upgrade and be done. We wont be doing any 1.8+ upgrades for our customers remotely - too many variables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bebster Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 I would assume that any device with a USB port would be able to be upgraded via firmware, but that devices that only have Zigbee comms would need to be replaced altogether?With a 2 year warranty and a device not working under the latest supported release, wouldn't it be a warranty replacement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecodeman Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 I would assume that any device with a USB port would be able to be upgraded via firmware, but that devices that only have Zigbee comms would need to be replaced altogether?With a 2 year warranty and a device not working under the latest supported release, wouldn't it be a warranty replacement?The two year warranty is for Control4 products. The items needing hardware upgrades are from a third party - Card Access. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 So when ae the new compatible devices due to be leased? C4 should have informed their partners long ago of these issues so that they can release hardware that will be compatible with at least a firmware upgrade months before the change in C4 protocol.If you look at Card Access' website you can see some of the products advertise that they are 1.8+ upgrade compatible. From what the gentleman at Card Access told me everything can be upgraded via software except for the motion sensor and the wireless contact sensor.The internal antenna motion sensors they are selling currently ARE able to be upgraded to zigbee pro.akg4y, you may be able to upgrade your stuff - it just depends on what it is and when it was purchased.EDIT: Typo fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akg4y Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 2 motion detectors, 1 wireless relay, 1 wireless contact, and 1 telephone/doorbell kit... Basically I think only the relay will be able to be updated, if that.Where do you see items that are already compatible, I couldnt find that on the card access site?Edit: Nevermind, found it. It looks like hopefully everything I have is software upgradable, assuming the purchase date wasnt before they made them software upgradeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 The card access site is www.cardaccess-inc.com. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L_S_K Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Not sure I completely understand the zig pro concerns. I am doing a new installation and need the switches NOW. Will the existing dimmers and buttons on the market right now be affected? Will they they need to be "new pro" devices or just updated (software)? In other words, if I put in the dimmers and switches in now.... and buy all new controller equip . v3 amp 16 channel and hc1000 v2. will everything be zb pro compatable. as a side note I read the card access website as it relates to their products.... very helpful. http://www.cardaccess-inc.com/automation/promo/20090728m_2/index.php?a=l Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecodeman Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Not sure I completely understand the zig pro concerns. I am doing a new installation and need the switches NOW. Will the existing dimmers and buttons on the market right now be affected?No.Will they they need to be "new pro" devicesNo.or just updated (software)?Yes.In other words, if I put in the dimmers and switches in now.... and buy all new controller equip . v3 amp 16 channel and hc1000 v2. will everything be zb pro compatable.Everything you've listed will be zigbee pro ready in 1.8, though your installer will probably put you on 1.7.3.20 until 2.0 comes out.You'll be fine, there's a lot of FUD going around but aside from the issues with some Card Access gear at this point, it's not a deal breaker.Now, if everyone's dimmers, remotes, and controllers would not work, well, that would be a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akg4y Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 There is some question about the 4" touchscreens though... although it is a rumor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFUG Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Not sure I completely understand the zig pro concerns. I am doing a new installation and need the switches NOW. Will the existing dimmers and buttons on the market right now be affected?No.Will they they need to be "new pro" devicesNo.or just updated (software)?Yes.In other words' date=' if I put in the dimmers and switches in now.... and buy all new controller equip . v3 amp 16 channel and hc1000 v2. will everything be zb pro compatable.[/quote']Everything you've listed will be zigbee pro ready in 1.8, though your installer will probably put you on 1.7.3.20 until 2.0 comes out.You'll be fine, there's a lot of FUD going around but aside from the issues with some Card Access gear at this point, it's not a deal breaker.Now, if everyone's dimmers, remotes, and controllers would not work, well, that would be a different story. Thank you. Although I said the same thing, people here tend to follow only what the dealers say as gospel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecodeman Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 There is some question about the 4" touchscreens though... although it is a rumor.What about them? They either run Ethernet or Wifi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecodeman Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Thank you. Although I said the same thing, people here tend to follow only what the dealers say as gospel.I think I'll create a big CEDIA / 1.8 / 2.0 FAQ thread should any additional info be released. Everyone would put their concerns and answers in one central place so we dont have a new thread every week about it. I wonder if we can make threads a "sticky" here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akg4y Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 There is some question about the 4" touchscreens though... although it is a rumor.What about them? They either run Ethernet or Wifi.There have been rumors that they will not work with 2.0... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henniae Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 There is some question about the 4" touchscreens though... although it is a rumor.What about them? They either run Ethernet or Wifi.There have been rumors that they will not work with 2.0...1.8 is not even released yet and is still in beta. 2.0 is a long way off.Few people know what 2.0 will even look like or exactly what features it will or will not include. If some older hardware is not compatible or upgradeable to 2.0 then we will deal with that when details of 2.0 are officially released. I know of no current rumors of the MTS being or not being compatible with 2.0.If you have 4" Touch screens and they are not able to run 2.0 you have 2 choices. Upgrade the touch screen to a model that can run 2.0 or don't run 2.0. I have said it before and will say it again. There comes a time when older hardware can't be upgraded to the latest greatest software version. Older PCs can't run newer versions of Windows. Older TVs can't view the latest HD signals. I have a DVD player I purchased last X-Mas not long after I purchased that DVD a newer model was released that supported Netflix. My older DVD does not have the hardware to run the upgraded software to view Netflix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Older PCs can't run newer versions of Windows. Older TVs can't view the latest HD signals. I have a DVD player I purchased last X-Mas not long after I purchased that DVD a newer model was released that supported Netflix. My older DVD does not have the hardware to run the upgraded software to view Netflix.When you discover you've been "left in the dark" you don't promptly demand a refund? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slemay Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 You guys all worry too much... 1.6 there was a rumor that v1 MTS (3.8" TS) wouldn't upgrade - they did.As of right now - 3.8" TS should work... but my guess is they'll be just like v1 MTS are today... some features don't work on them (ie: Rhapsody). So this may be the case in the next version - who knows... but I'm certain Control4 is not going to dump them and make them do nothing. They just may not have all the new features (they will upgrade to 2.0 still!!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bebster Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 It's one thing to have to replace a piece of equipment for a few $100. It's another thing when that piece is installed in a wall, and you have to rip it out and replace it with something that is a different form factor. That can be an expensive wall repair depending on the installation. So for wall mounted devices (like the touch screens) it's important that a similar form factor replacement be available at the least. Hope C4 understands that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin L Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 the 4" MTS will "most likely" work on 2.0 but you will have the same old interface etc.. it cant run flash.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akg4y Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 I have said it before and will say it again. There comes a time when older hardware can't be upgraded to the latest greatest software version. Older PCs can't run newer versions of Windows. Older TVs can't view the latest HD signals. I have a DVD player I purchased last X-Mas not long after I purchased that DVD a newer model was released that supported Netflix. My older DVD does not have the hardware to run the upgraded software to view Netflix.Youre missing the point. The issue is not that an older piece of hardware should be able to run all new software. It's that if hardware that is *currently* being sold will not be able to run software that is late in development and soon to be released, particularly something that is part of a large system like home automation, then it should be expressly stated well in advance to customers making a purchase. The customer should be told 'hey by the way you should know this item will probably not be able to run the upcoming software that will probably be released within the next year so you have the option of choosing a more expensive 7" screen or waiting until a new product is released for that portion of your home automation. OR you could spend $5000 on 8 screens now but just know that they may not work at all with the new software or they may have to remain on the old interface, we dont know yet.' Any new computer sold the year prior to a new release of Windows is generally compatible with the new version and at the same time software upgrade promotions etc are offered to purchasers of new computer just before the new operating system is released. If you bought a computer 2-3 years ago, sure it may or may not be able to run the new release of windows, but we're not talking about 2-3 years here, we're talking about a matter of months. The discussion is release of 2.0 in early 2010 and yet 4" touchscreens are still being offered and sold by dealers with no caveat about the new software release.Anyone non-HD TV sold (if there even were any) just prior to the DTV transition was probably labeled in big bold letters as not being compatible, and if not then that is a combined fault of the retailers and the purchaser since the information is widely available. Plus that situation is also different in that TV manufacturers are not controlling the programming end, as opposed to C4 which builds the hardware and creates the software and thus has 100% insight as to what hardware will work with what software and when said software will be released.Comparing a $100 DVD player to what could amount to $5000 of home automation equipment is apples an oranges, plus the main function of your DVD player is to play DVDs, whereas the main function of a C4 touch screen is to run the software that controls the home. If there was an immediate change 3 months after you bought your DVD player to ALL movie sales being blu-ray only and if the retailers and manufacturers knew the change was coming but didnt release that information, THEN it would be slightly more equivalent to this situation.That being said, if the 4" screens can still run the old software while the rest of the system is on the new software then that at least softens the blow because the hardware doesnt become useless, although the information should still be released well in advance. The correct timeline for something like this would be to release new hardware at least 6 months in advance that can run the new software, or give full disclosure to anyone purchasing a 4" touchscreen that when 2.0 comes out in a few months those will be running older software and have a different interface than everything else in the house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K&J Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 There will be no one to be forced to update to 2.0 when it finally comes out. In fact 2.0 will be a Charged Update, the dealers will have to pay for this update due to certain licensing factors.Pricing has not been discussed yet. A lot of speculation over what will and what will not work yet. If something does not work under a new format, keep the format you have.Just my $.02. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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