Help Identifying System / Home Purchase

[Bainer]

We are purchasing a home in early August that has a Control4 system. I believe its an older system, likely from around 2010-2012. Most of the main rooms in the house have speakers in the ceiling with black touch screen panels in each room to control the sound. I believe the TV boxes are all in the rack so each TV would also be setup on the Control 4 system. There are exterior cameras and I think a doorbell intercom camera at the front door. I'm trying to do some basic research to identify the Control4 version/components in the rack and see what the current owner need to do to transfer ownership to me or what do I need to do once we get the home? I've read some stuff online and realize I will likely need to get an installer in to do some work but what can you tell me from what you see here. I would like to use the system mostly for music and the cameras if possible, maybe setup 1 or 2 TV's on it but not sure on how complex that will get compared to just having the Telus TV box at each TV.

Thanks!

[Cyknight]

I can't see what controllers you have from here, that would be the bigger question, as well as the exact screens you have. Those are a big determination on how old the system is, and more importantly how far it can be upgraded to a newer if not current version.

My most direct concern is that it looks like you have a Sony CAV video switch in there (but I can't be sure), which would be component, not HDMI - THAT could become a costly endeavour to update, and update may be inevitable of you're adding your own sources and TVs as component is basically a dead option now.

Transfer as such is easy enough: either they can provide you the information on there existing account with C4, and have you change the info to your own, or a new account is created in tandem with a dealer to register the system under the new account. There's not much more than that beyond a possible change of sources (ie cable boxes, appleTVs etc)

 

 

[Bainer]

Appreciate you taking a look, thanks for that account transfer info that makes sense.

I wasn't sure if those were Component Cables for the TV boxes or something else, will have to take a closer look when we get in. I'm guessing if it was Component then if we wanted it to work on HDMI we'd need an updated HDMI Matrix switch and HDMI Receiver box for each TV we wanted to use? Plus a possible home controller upgrade.

I don't have many other pics but here's a few that show the black control screens. I also think there was 1 or 2 Control4 Remote Controls that I saw around the house but no picks of them.

 

[Cyknight]

Not too worried ont he remotes, they won't be the oldest version(s)/old style for sure so you'll be fine there.

Screens seem to be an older style (again, hard to be 100% sure): they will limit your upgrade path to 2.10.6 UNLESS you want intercom (that will force lower version still). For reference, at time of writing we're at 3.3.3 - a full OS redo and several iterations into it. 2.10.6 is quite old (years) but as it stands IS still a fully supported software version.

Going to OS 3 at this point would mean replacing ALL of those screens (or abandoning them of course) - going to all T4's (newest version) and you're looking at well over a 1000 USD (closer to 1500 than to 1000 - not sure what current exact US prices are) PER SCREEN. Yes you can save by going T3 a bit, maybe second hand, maybe go to wallmounted ipads/android based tablets.

 

Do want to stress that upgrading isn't a requirement as such, system as is may well last years more - but be aware of it.

 

And yes if it's component you're likely looking at a new HDMI switch et al OR going to some form of hybrid setup with sources at the TV (and maybe sending audio back for speakers if you want to use them for video's audio)

[Bainer]

Got it thats pretty much what I expected, technology is always becoming obsolete. Even if we used the system just for basic music that would be fine don't necessarily need it to project the sound from the TV's.

For the exterior cameras, I assume they are part of the Control4 system so would I be able to use them via the iphone app or do they only come through to the TV's? Or does that depend on software version?

[eggzlot]

59 minutes ago, Bainer said:

Got it thats pretty much what I expected, technology is always becoming obsolete. Even if we used the system just for basic music that would be fine don't necessarily need it to project the sound from the TV's.

For the exterior cameras, I assume they are part of the Control4 system so would I be able to use them via the iphone app or do they only come through to the TV's? Or does that depend on software version?

Fairly confident you can see the cameras in the C4 app.  It would depend on what model cameras, but most that are ONVIF compliant (1,000’s of cameras) will work in C4.

Can you see them on the TV? Given the older equipment, it’s likely a no.   That said if there is a component video matrix, and there is an NVR attached to that matrix, then maybe yes you could see them on the TV.

The fact that the wiring is all done and likely mostly all still usable, that is a good win.  You can always move in, see how you like c4, and slowly over time add/update components but getting the account moved over just to get started with TVs, cameras and audio shouldn’t be too complex - minus the TV/component issue. If they are taking the TVs, and you are bringing in your own, I am going to guess most dont have component inputs anymore….that could be a pickle.

[Bainer]

That sounds like a good plan, I think for what we plan to use at this point it should likely be good just a bit of learning to do on our part about how it all works. I will post back more when we get in and I can look more closely at the equipment and software.

[eggzlot]

21 minutes ago, Bainer said:

That sounds like a good plan, I think for what we plan to use at this point it should likely be good just a bit of learning to do on our part about how it all works. I will post back more when we get in and I can look more closely at the equipment and software.

Good luck with the closing.  As mentioned, if you are going to poke around more on the forums, the internet, marketing material, etc just realize you are on OS2, not OS3 so features, UI, etc will vary.  

 

[Bainer]

Appreciate that thanks again

[Cyknight]

Just wanted to reiterate that I'm not trying to scare you away from the system: we have a multitude of system running on 2.10.6 that are simply rock solid and have NO reason to (spend a lot of money) to update to OS3 - merely trying to make you aware of what you're looking at, what limitations are there and so on.

Even on the HDMI - I could well be wrong that it's a component switch, your pictures aren't quite clear enough to be, but know that SYSTEM wise, there's no reason a 2.10 systemc ouldn't run a full 4k hdmi distribution, it will just depend on the switch that's there, the tVs and so on.

[Bainer]

That makes sense and I understand what you are saying, thanks for the info that's what I was looking for. I'll share some more info in early August once we are in the home and I can take a closer look. Thanks!

[Bainer]

Following up from the previous, we are now in the house and I have determined the equipment is a single HC800, Video Matrix is a Sony Component, 7 CAV-CVB1 Box's and Remotes, 5 C4? Touch Screens. Software version says 2.9.1 The good news is the house is fully wired all the TV's have 4 network ports, 2-3 coax, 4 power outlets, etc. I had Shaw Internet connected the other day and I connected the network cable and the Control 4 system came to life. Sound works as we can tune into the preset stations, I can lock/unlock some of the doors, cameras appear to be an option but will not display on the C4 panels. The front door Intercoms don't seem to do anything so not really worried about them.

Our plan is still the same, not planning to use the video just the sound, maybe some security features, etc.

Questions:

-The one Living Room TV mount also has a HC200 on the wall, not sure why?

-Is the Control4 Iphone app compatible with this system or is it too old?

-I see some EA3's for sale for decent prices so if I changed to that what additional features would it give, would the C4 panels still be compatible?

-Is there a tech on this forum that could change the system over to our names?

Thanks!

[EdC4Tx]

Sent you a DM about your last post. 

[Bainer]

Good news, I had a tech come by yesterday to register us and look over the system, most of the components are what we already knew, HC800-BL Controller and a few HC200 controllers in the rooms. We are just going to use the system for music, the door locks and a few lights. The video is an older DVR system, still working but no online support so I will be using my Wyze cams for the primary video security.

I asked about using the Control4 app, and the tech said the software would need to be OS 2.10 to do so, however the HC-800-BL can't go upto that version, so we would need to find a HC800-BL1 or BL1A or newer EA3 to do that. With the touch screens we have we would be limited to the OS 2.10, if we went higher then the screens would not work. So I think the plan might be to find a good used EA3, then go to OS 2.10 and see how that works. 

They quoted a couple of hours to do the OS update once I have the EA3, likely $250ish. Does this make sense? Could the OS update be done remotely? Thanks

[eggzlot]

1 hour ago, Bainer said:

Good news, I had a tech come by yesterday to register us and look over the system, most of the components are what we already knew, HC800-BL Controller and a few HC200 controllers in the rooms. We are just going to use the system for music, the door locks and a few lights. The video is an older DVR system, still working but no online support so I will be using my Wyze cams for the primary video security.

I asked about using the Control4 app, and the tech said the software would need to be OS 2.10 to do so, however the HC-800-BL can't go upto that version, so we would need to find a HC800-BL1 or BL1A or newer EA3 to do that. With the touch screens we have we would be limited to the OS 2.10, if we went higher then the screens would not work. So I think the plan might be to find a good used EA3, then go to OS 2.10 and see how that works. 

They quoted a couple of hours to do the OS update once I have the EA3, likely $250ish. Does this make sense? Could the OS update be done remotely? Thanks

OS update could be done remotely

that said, with an older system, new to the ecosystem, if they are only going to charge $250 to come onsite and do the upgrade, that isnt unreasonable.  some people will flame me for that, but to drive to you, sit there for 30-45 mins, do the upgrade, then test a few things to make sure its done, $250 seems reasonable to pay for their time.  especially if they will work with a used EA3 - did you ask them that?  some dealers wont work with some (or all) used equipment, especially the main controller.  if it doesnt work, who's to blame - the dealer or the used device?  most remote dealers here are fine working on used or equipment they didnt sell so...ymmv

i could be wrong, but going to the EA3 may get you to OS 2.10, but based on what you are using it for, you wont see any UI difference or likely many differences in features.  I guess you'll get the app support, that BL vs BL1 and licensing stuff was before I got into C4 (2013) so not sure if they are giving you the correct information - my HC800 at the time purchased new had the license attached, it wasn't an add on sale.

 

Edited August 11, 2023 by eggzlot

[Bainer]

The tech said they sometimes have used hc800’s but not likely an ea3, so I’d have to find it myself… so should be no issue as long as I get a good used one.

As I understand, since we are staying on os2 for now the ea3 would not be used to it’s full capacity but I was thinking for the future if we did decide to go to os3 down the road we could use the ea3…

 

 

[Control4Savant]

9 minutes ago, Bainer said:

The tech said they sometimes have used hc800’s but not likely an ea3, so I’d have to find it myself… so should be no issue as long as I get a good used one.

As I understand, since we are staying on os2 for now the ea3 would not be used to it’s full capacity but I was thinking for the future if we did decide to go to os3 down the road we could use the ea3…

 

 

 

I have a few used EA3s… Id have to see what OS they are on. 

[RAV]

You have some misinformation.

If it's truly a gen 1 HC800 without licenses, than you're stuck, but it sounds like there were license assigned to the original owners account for upgrades and app usage as you state the touchpanels are running os 2.91, which the controller couldn't get too without an add on license.

If they'll pass you their account, you'd be in better shape and could use the OS2 app. Have them do an email change on the account to yours, and then the dealer will have to reassign to the old account.

Also, be aware that the HC200's can't go past 2.91.
The touchscreens can make it to 2.10.6, but they'll legacy and show as their current 2.91
The HC800 with proper license to 2.10.6 keeping the touch's, and to 3.3 loosing them.

Putting in a EA3 is another barrel of fish.
EA3 Gen 1 can go back to 2.91, so you'd be all set, but stuck there with the HC200's about.
EA3 Gen 2 can only go back to 2.10.2? maybe 4 don't recall, so bye to the HC200s too.

Pretty sure that's all right, but might be off on the EA3 versions, never needed to not be 2.10.6 with an EA.

 

[Bainer]

Thanks for that additional info.
 

I disconnected the HC200’s as we are not planning to use the component video as it’s just too old and upgrading the video matrix doesn’t make sense as the video is not really of value to our scenario. Am I losing anything other than video without having the HC200’s???
 

I tried to get the previous owners to email transfer their account but they are not the original owners and are uncooperative. I believe it was the previous owners of the house before them that had the system installed so it’s likely the license is long gone… too bad there is no way to add it on to the current HC800?

It would be nice to have the app control and that’s what we are after at this point. Appreciate the info being shared here.

[RAV]

What error do you get trying to use the os2 app?

[Bainer]

"A license is required to connect this device to your system. Please contact your Control4 dealer to obtain a license. To transfer a license to a new device please login to customer.control4.com to remove a license from an existing device"