Is there anything close to C4 thats open to anyone ?

[Rolecgroup]

After Control4 pulled my dealer facility, I've been running it at home and a wing and prayer for a couple of years...

Found a local dealer that was pretty helpful, came a did a full update taking on everything i'd done in the past.

Now having had controller failures its just to expensive for me to pay retail to replace them, so currently pulling everything and going old school IR and oem remote controls.

Is there anything out there that gets close to what C4 offers without being tied to using someone else, or at least being allowed to be a dealer and not having it pulled on a whim by the manufacturer ?

Love/loved what C4 could offer, but not just as a user

 

[Control4Savant]

Elan

[Rolecgroup]

14 hours ago, Control4Savant said:

Elan

Thanks - I'll take a look into it

[Control4Savant]

5 hours ago, Rolecgroup said:

Thanks - I'll take a look into it

It was purchased by Nice a while back so it’s pretty much a distribution product. It hits the same price brackets with some added features like MyQ integration …

They are changing over everything to “Nice” branding and a new UI so they might become more competitive with some better looking hardware too…

EDITED - 2023 systems updates look ….nice…  https://na.niceforyou.com/features/nice-elan-smart-home/

[Rolecgroup]

52 minutes ago, Control4Savant said:

It was purchased by Nice a while back so it’s pretty much a distribution product. It hits the same price brackets with some added features like MyQ integration …

They are changing over everything to “Nice” branding and a new UI so they might become more competitive with some better looking hardware too…

EDITED - 2023 systems updates look ….nice…  https://na.niceforyou.com/features/nice-elan-smart-home/

Thanks for that info - very helpful !

 

[Cyknight]

? Elan is a dealer model as well. Their step in is likely less, but it sounds like you're jsut becoming a dealer to service your own system....they'd pull you in the year anyway.

[eggzlot]

pure DIY

https://allonis.com/

https://homeseer.com/

https://www.home-assistant.io/

not pushing you out of this forum, but AVSForum has a sub forum for Home Automation and its 95% focused on the tinker/DIY platforms out there

the 3 I link to above you dont need a dealer or dealership status to get the hardware/software, etc.  But they all have a smaller ecosystem, supported by people writing drivers which can break at any time, less "official" support for 3rd party devices compared to C4, Crestron, Savant, Elan, etc...They also dont do some aspects of media as well but in general, 3 options ya got.

[wnpublic]

8 minutes ago, eggzlot said:

pure DIY

https://allonis.com/

https://homeseer.com/

https://www.home-assistant.io/

not pushing you out of this forum, but AVSForum has a sub forum for Home Automation and its 95% focused on the tinker/DIY platforms out there

the 3 I link to above you dont need a dealer or dealership status to get the hardware/software, etc.  But they all have a smaller ecosystem, supported by people writing drivers which can break at any time, less "official" support for 3rd party devices compared to C4, Crestron, Savant, Elan, etc...They also dont do some aspects of media as well but in general, 3 options ya got.

I'm on home assistant for three properties.  I don't agree about smaller ecosystem, it's larger.  Definitely agree about lack of official support, and yes agree that you are depending on another community member or members for drivers.  And yes - you are doing it DIY, it's all you backed by some good, some bad documentation, and a community support forum and Redd it

[Control4Savant]

2 hours ago, Cyknight said:

? Elan is a dealer model as well. Their step in is likely less, but it sounds like you're jsut becoming a dealer to service your own system....they'd pull you in the year anyway.

Im not sure what you mean by dealer model… you can get Elan from distributions around the country as an approved vendor so thats not a direct dealership no.  You do have to be vetted in the same sense as other yes. 

40 minutes ago, wnpublic said:

I'm on home assistant for three properties.  I don't agree about smaller ecosystem, it's larger.  Definitely agree about lack of official support, and yes agree that you are depending on another community member or members for drivers.  And yes - you are doing it DIY, it's all you backed by some good, some bad documentation, and a community support forum and Redd it

I have HA “beta” systems running for clients who really want to pull away from dealer based products but most of them are still using the major 3rd party options like Lutron, Sonos, ReoLink etc…  its really a full time job and the service can be much more frustrating at times. There is only so much resetting you can do of a consumer product with someone else’s cloud credentials. 

[Cyknight]

3 hours ago, Control4Savant said:

Im not sure what you mean by dealer model… you can get Elan from distributions around the country as an approved vendor so thats not a direct dealership no.  You do have to be vetted in the same sense as other yes.

Meaning the software access. Heck we do Elan, but just not sure

[alanchow]

24 minutes ago, Cyknight said:

Meaning the software access. Heck we do Elan, but just not sure

Older systems that used Configurator you could get by without dealer access however the current Management Cloud requires dealer login.  You cannot program it without a dealer account which can be revoked.

 

[Control4Savant]

We seem to be repeating ourselves… 

[Rolecgroup]

14 hours ago, Cyknight said:

? Elan is a dealer model as well. Their step in is likely less, but it sounds like you're jsut becoming a dealer to service your own system....they'd pull you in the year anyway.

 

Not just for me - i own an M&E contracting company we complete circa 1500 new build resi properties a year, we're Sonos, Rako etc. etc. dealers and dont currently fear having my ability to install/configure away from us.

 

What i'm looking for is a product i can confidently offer a client today, and tomorrow,  unlike C4 unfortunately.

 

I do have a personal vested interest obviously in the right product, and use my home as a test/learning facility for new products.

[Rolecgroup]

13 hours ago, eggzlot said:

pure DIY

https://allonis.com/

https://homeseer.com/

https://www.home-assistant.io/

not pushing you out of this forum, but AVSForum has a sub forum for Home Automation and its 95% focused on the tinker/DIY platforms out there

the 3 I link to above you dont need a dealer or dealership status to get the hardware/software, etc.  But they all have a smaller ecosystem, supported by people writing drivers which can break at any time, less "official" support for 3rd party devices compared to C4, Crestron, Savant, Elan, etc...They also dont do some aspects of media as well but in general, 3 options ya got.

Thanks - i've been into HA/AV for many years running old CQC/Pronto setups personally, as i brought it into my M&E business i needed properly supported products for my clients, C4 was great and worked well until they pulled my dealer status for not selling enough - we do 000's of properties a year, but only a small percentage have Home Automation/AV. I know i can go back down the DIY route for home, but would be nice to have something even if its single room type products like the old HC100 & 250 remote we use to do quite regularly

[Cyknight]

8 hours ago, Rolecgroup said:

 

Not just for me - i own an M&E contracting company we complete circa 1500 new build resi properties a year, we're Sonos, Rako etc. etc. dealers and dont currently fear having my ability to install/configure away from us.

 

What i'm looking for is a product i can confidently offer a client today, and tomorrow,  unlike C4 unfortunately.

If C4 pulled your dealer satus, then it is going to be in (likely in a large) part because you weren't doing the numbers to maintain it.

Elan would do the same thing, though they may have a less saturated market (so a lower threshold).

But ANY of the more advanced options out there are dealer model based (to one degree or another) - and all of them will have certain requirements.

You basically say that C4 wasn't 'open' enough for you - but that translates to needing a lower threshold to becoming and maintaining a dealership status. Not saying there's anything wrong with that, but any of them will have those thresholds, and all o them will have (local/regional) market dependant thresholds. What I'm trying to say is that there is no singular answer to what system is easier to be/keep being a certified dealer for.

In any area it might be Elan, is could be Savant, Crestron or indeed Control4. But those 4 are basically the ones that are comparable in capability though of course each has it's advantages and disadvantages.

Maybe RTI or URC have all you're looking to do and maybe those fit the bill, but those two aren't near as complete as Control4 or the others are.

 

In other words, you're better off talking to the reps for these companies first and foremost to see what their requirements are.

[Control4Savant]

1 hour ago, Cyknight said:

If C4 pulled your dealer satus, then it is going to be in (likely in a large) part because you weren't doing the numbers to maintain it.

Elan would do the same thing, though they may have a less saturated market (so a lower threshold).

But ANY of the more advanced options out there are dealer model based (to one degree or another) - and all of them will have certain requirements.

You basically say that C4 wasn't 'open' enough for you - but that translates to needing a lower threshold to becoming and maintaining a dealership status. Not saying there's anything wrong with that, but any of them will have those thresholds, and all o them will have (local/regional) market dependant thresholds. What I'm trying to say is that there is no singular answer to what system is easier to be/keep being a certified dealer for.

In any area it might be Elan, is could be Savant, Crestron or indeed Control4. But those 4 are basically the ones that are comparable in capability though of course each has it's advantages and disadvantages.

Maybe RTI or URC have all you're looking to do and maybe those fit the bill, but those two aren't near as complete as Control4 or the others are.

 

In other words, you're better off talking to the reps for these companies first and foremost to see what their requirements are.

Theres nothing wrong with what you are saying here. My point with Elan is distribution level dealerships are lower tier and  a lot of times require little to no requirements besides basic activity.  Again, they can certainly can you dealership just like any AV dealership line.