CA-10 for project with 123 Zigbee devices

[drmark12pa]

Hello, just wanted some input on possibly adding a CA-10 to my system currently running on an EA-5.  I also have an EA-5 running my theater and then 2 EA-3s running on 2 TVs for control.

I have a total of 124 Zigbee devices not including 24 LIFX lights that are also controlled by the system.

Just wondering what I could expect by adding a CA-10.  I don't tend to have much lag other than what I had written in another post about the backlighting slow to change for events like garage door opening/closing but that seems to have improved.

[msgreenf]

How many zigbee meshes do you have?  Do you have all those zigbee devices on one mesh? 

[drmark12pa]

18 minutes ago, msgreenf said:

How many zigbee meshes do you have?  Do you have all those zigbee devices on one mesh? 

Yes, it appears they are all on one mesh running off the EA-5 in my rack.  Would it be of benefit to have my dealer create additional mesh?

[msgreenf]

Yes, a mesh is not supposed to be more then 75 devices

[drmark12pa]

40 minutes ago, msgreenf said:

Yes, a mesh is not supposed to be more then 75 devices

If a mesh is added, say using my other EA-5 in my theater or even one of the EA-3s, they they automatically "capture" the closest devices or do the devices have to be assigned to a specific controller by dealer?

What would be the benefit of a CA-10 in my system with that many devices (which doesn't include TV's, audio matrix, 2 C4 amps, etc)

[Cyknight]

A CA-10 will be a huge boost...but I'm not sure you need it. 123 zigbee isn't all that much really - I'd ensure there's 2 if not 3 meshes though.

1 bigger mesh (40 ish lights likely) that is setup in a way to cover the whole house that has any SR series remotes connected to it so they can roam freely and then probably two meshes to do any other lighting devices per floor or wing of the house.

[Cyknight]

3 minutes ago, drmark12pa said:

... or do the devices have to be assigned to a specific controller by dealer?

 

Devices need to be manualy assigned to the new meshes (remove from old mesh, re-id in new one). It will be a bit of a process.

[msgreenf]

3 minutes ago, drmark12pa said:

If a mesh is added, say using my other EA-5 in my theater or even one of the EA-3s, they they automatically "capture" the closest devices or do the devices have to be assigned to a specific controller by dealer?

What would be the benefit of a CA-10 in my system with that many devices (which doesn't include TV's, audio matrix, 2 C4 amps, etc)

You have to re-join the devices to a new mesh

[drmark12pa]

Would adding another mesh and/or adding a CA-10 improve system performance better?  Obviously, if adding a mesh makes things a bit more snappy for response that would be better than spending $4k+ on a CA-10 unless there would be other benefit to having the CA-10.

[msgreenf]

I would do the mesh first... A few hours of labors and you should do that anyway... 

[msgreenf]

IMHO LED lag is due to mesh

[Cyknight]

I can't argue that a CA-10 (or even a Core5) would NOT help, but I agree that your issue is more likely mesh related than anything else, and I would certainly suggest redoing the mesh (half a day of labour) first over blindly going to a CA10 (AND do the mesh as that really should be looked at anyway).

 

Easier on the wallet to get that done first and see if it doesn't fix your problems anyway.

[drmark12pa]

Do you have to disconnect each device after mesh is set up, re-identify, and the device automatically connects to the best signal mesh?  Is it better to have fewer or more meshes such as one mesh per each controller or just enough to spread coverage out better?  I have an EA-3 in main floor living room which is dead center of house.  Another EA-3 is upstairs in tv room above the garage.  My primary EA-5 is in my rack in basement utility room and my other EA-5 is just 2 rooms over in theater.

[msgreenf]

23 minutes ago, drmark12pa said:

Do you have to disconnect each device after mesh is set up, re-identify, and the device automatically connects to the best signal mesh?  Is it better to have fewer or more meshes such as one mesh per each controller or just enough to spread coverage out better?  I have an EA-3 in main floor living room which is dead center of house.  Another EA-3 is upstairs in tv room above the garage.  My primary EA-5 is in my rack in basement utility room and my other EA-5 is just 2 rooms over in theater.

You need to re-identify each device to the new mesh.

I would spread by floor but you use remote portability in doing so as devices can’t move across meshes

[Cyknight]

As mentioned, I prefer one mesh from a central location to create a full-house mesh that includes all remotes. Based on your setup, I'd use the centra EA3 for that, do basically all main floor lights and 4-8 select lights on the other two floors, to get remotes there covered plus all remotes, then I'd use the EA3 upstairs for the rest of the top floor, the theatre ea for the rest of the basement.

 

Not true singular right or wrong way though, depends a lot on layout, construction material and so on.

 

And no you manually select what zigbee server to use, it doesn't automatically grab one.

[drmark12pa]

Well, I've had about 30 devices reassigned to my floor level EA3 and might have made some difference on the LED backlighting.  

Can SR260 remotes be assigned to a controller/mesh as the 2 I have in kitchen and living room (right next to each other and the EA3 is in the living room) still have incredible lag at times.  It looks like the SR250 remotes can be assigned to a controller but not the 260s?

[msgreenf]

1 hour ago, drmark12pa said:

Well, I've had about 30 devices reassigned to my floor level EA3 and might have made some difference on the LED backlighting.  

Can SR260 remotes be assigned to a controller/mesh as the 2 I have in kitchen and living room (right next to each other and the EA3 is in the living room) still have incredible lag at times.  It looks like the SR250 remotes can be assigned to a controller but not the 260s?

all zigbee devices are assigned to a mesh...a mesh lives on a controller.  yes, you can do the same thing on the 260 that you can on the 250.

 

Glad our advice helped!  Much cheaper then a CA10

[IBZICON]

I will be in similar situation as @drmark12pa, as my former HC-800 had around 80 connected devices (I believe that the HC-800 could handle upwards of 100 devices) and my controller was updated to a Core 3 last week (my former C4 dealer told me I did not need a Core 5) with my project migrated to the Core 3 (haven't installed the Core 3).  Latter this month I will be Installing an additional 36 C4 light switches and 4 C4 outlets, as this will put me past 120 connected devices as this is too many to handle on one Core 3 controller as per the attached PDF controller comparison.  Three level house, what is @Cyknight and @msgreenf opinion of installing a Core 1 on the 2nd and 3rd floor's?  I was also informed by my new dealer that I would probably need a CA-1 to handle the I/O's, but this was before he actually looked at my project and realized the number of devices-- I don't think the CA-A is an option for all of the light switches as best practice is to have multiple mesh devices.  

If I installed additional Core 1's, can the security video feed from a Luma 120 NVR be viewed on the Core 1's in the secondary rooms, or just in the primary room where the Luma 120 NVR is being rack mounted via the HDMI output? 

ca-1-automation-controller-performance-comparison-rev-h.pdf

[RAV]

28 minutes ago, IBZICON said:

If I installed additional Core 1's, can the security video feed from a Luma 120 NVR be viewed on the Core 1's in the secondary rooms, or just in the primary room where the Luma 120 NVR is being rack mounted via the HDMI output?

On screen Navigator can display individual camera feeds using the HDMI output of a Core processor (or EA) attached to a TV display, same as the App or Touchscreens do.
The Luma NVR's physical monitor/HDMI output of multicamera display or timeline search type functions can not be seen regardless of processor, you would need a video distribution system for that.

[msgreenf]

You don't want to have more than 70 zigbee devices on a mesh. You will need at least one more controller to run a second zigbee mesh

[IBZICON]

4 hours ago, msgreenf said:

You don't want to have more than 70 zigbee devices on a mesh. You will need at least one more controller to run a second zigbee mesh

I was told that my project had 96 devices on the HC-800, and adding an additional 40 next week (I’ll have to wait to have them integrated as the Core 3 will be overloaded).  There will be additional devices added in the fall for distributed audio.  

Which controller(s) would you recommend, as I could go with a CA-1 on my third floor either Core lite or Core 1 on my 2nd floor.  

At what point due you advocate adding a CA-10 as the backbone to the project? House is around 5,700 sq feet on 3 levels.  

[IBZICON]

4 hours ago, RAV said:

On screen Navigator can display individual camera feeds using the HDMI output of a Core processor (or EA) attached to a TV display, same as the App or Touchscreens do.
The Luma NVR's physical monitor/HDMI output of multicamera display or timeline search type functions can not be seen regardless of processor, you would need a video distribution system for that.

Thank you, as I’m not going with distributed video just for the security video feeds (ditched DirectTV for YouTubeTV via Roku sticks).  I’m replacing two C4-7TS with T4 8” in wall which will cary the security video feed.  I assume the portable 10” touch screen can also receive the video feeds? 

[msgreenf]

43 minutes ago, IBZICON said:

I was told that my project had 96 devices on the HC-800, and adding an additional 40 next week (I’ll have to wait to have them integrated as the Core 3 will be overloaded).  There will be additional devices added in the fall for distributed audio.  

Which controller(s) would you recommend, as I could go with a CA-1 on my third floor either Core lite or Core 1 on my 2nd floor.  

At what point due you advocate adding a CA-10 as the backbone to the project? House is around 5,700 sq feet on 3 levels.  

It’s not about devices.  I need to know more.  What drivers, what signee…those sorta things impact performance more then # of devices.  For example, TV’s are “lighter” then like a HUE driver….

 

Also, your dealer that you are working with should really know this stuff. 

[Cyknight]

So first and foremost: 70 Devices limit is a ZIGBEE limit, and has no bearing on TOTAL devices. If you have 60 devices, I strongly suggest getting a second zigbee server setup, 70 is the max it will allow in current system versions - you literally CANNOT upgrade if you don't. A CA1 (not 10!!!) is an excellent option to add as a controller if it's sole function is zigbbe - it works just as well for THAT purpose as any other device (it of course does little else to begin with).

As for what MAIN controller you should have, as @msgreenf said, that's hard to judge specifically without knowing details, though at around 140 devices in general, at least a CORE controller would be the general suggestion at this time.

[IBZICON]

On 5/20/2024 at 5:33 PM, msgreenf said:

It’s not about devices.  I need to know more.  What drivers, what signee…those sorta things impact performance more then # of devices.  For example, TV’s are “lighter” then like a HUE driver….

 

Also, your dealer that you are working with should really know this stuff. 

My former dealing told me I did not require a Core5, as it was “overkill” and told me a Core3 would be fine for my project.  HC800 project was mitigated to new Core3 this week prior to installing and was informed of all the devices by my new remote dealer which I didn’t know the number of devices.  I don’t think it’s fair to publicly post why I changed dealers nor didn’t stay with a local dealer—but responsive communication is a key.

What do you mean by signee?

@Cyknight I was informed that the project was successfully implemented on the new Core 3, as my Control 4 account shows my current OS 3.4.  At first it was recommended of a CA-1 for a mesh support, but now leaning towards two Core 1’s, as I have other media rooms that could use these controllers.  My touch screens, doorbell (original DS), touch tablet, and C4 app,  all seemed to lag when on the HC800, thus why I’m considering a CA-10 in the future just for the responsive ‘’speed’ boost.  

[msgreenf]

Sorry, that was a typo.  What Drivers, What type of Signals, etc.  I can’t tell you what you should do hardware wise without spending time looking at your project and understanding your objectives and long term desires…