-defunct-

1 minute ago, yoho said:

I simply asked if one can give me or help me get a dealer login not for anyone to break their contract...

That in itself breaks the contract. Hence the responses. If you didn't know that, now you know.

54 minutes ago, yoho said:

A: Yes I'm aware its for pros, but I want to get access to it

Be aware Control4 can and might terminate the dealership if they find out the dealer is sharing pro with a non-employee.

2 hours ago, msgreenf said:

i would just change the email on the customer.control4.com account and delete all the devices

I would avoid this. New account for new customer due to privacy laws.

21 minutes ago, zaphod said:

You make some really good points, and I am a big C4 proponent, but just be aware that C4 stuff becomes obsolete on a regular basis as well.  Stuff like controllers, remotes and touch screens often become obsolete in about a decade.  So if you want to stay current you will have to spend at least a few thousand rebuying that stuff each decade.

Lighting is different and I still have dozens of dimmers and keypads from ~2007 that work fine and were upgraded from embernet. That has not gone obsolete at all.

Agree with you, but on some of the items I'd say every five years and maybe every two years for software versions.

1 minute ago, ejn1 said:

I think we are saying the same thing although I would think most customers are the one making the initial contact with the dealer versus opposite...  I would be curious how many customers call a dealer already wanting C4 versus one that calls a dealer and states what they are looking for "brand agnostic" and purchases based on dealer recommendation?   I would think the former is the majority of the cases but don't know.

I believe you are correct for the current market. Homeowners are looking for Control4 and dealers are prioritizing certain jobs.

3 minutes ago, ejn1 said:

agree,  and I think C4 wants all customer types also as longs as it aligns with their Dealer business model...  Dealers, based on their segmentation preferences may not, but C4 wants anyone with a wallet and heartbeat as a customer is my view.

Dealers pick the customers. Control4 only wants Dealers to sell products regardless of who the customer is.

13 hours ago, Singularity said:

I agree that its not a fair comparison, but a lot of potential customers do make this comparison. Its “easy” to explain the difference in experience that the customer will have when using a custom installer, and a fully integrated system. Its easy to justify the extra costs for installing and programming. The part that is harder to explain, is why comparable products could be several hundred percent more expensive when purchasing C4. This does not apply to all C4 products, as some products are reasonably priced. I would love to offer my customers complete C4 solutions with only C4 products (when possible), but at this point.. Nah. 

I know that other integrators offer systems that are a lot more expensive than C4. So what direction is the best way to go? To focus on the wealthier, or “Average Joe”? I don’t know. Where is the best potential for growth? Are we making the entry price to a fantastic C4 experience too steep when doing a retrofit? Or should I just be better at focusing on the exellent experience of having a C4 system. I love it, my wife loves "the remote", my old man loves his system, the kids loves the sound system, the family next door loves their system.

At least what I have seen and heard, the target demographic is not the 'average Joe' as much as many 'average Joes' would like.

17 minutes ago, robbie3130 said:

Unsure the argument here from a DIY perspective. Can an end user even get support for say, Pakedge?

From a DIY perspective, Pakedge and Control4 make zero sense.

Both are CI systems, i.e. generally for those who want something built and not building it themself.

13 hours ago, Singularity said:

Its been a while since I have written in English. So, let me try to explain. First of all. What is the definition of "cheap"? 

If a customer wants to be able to control the lights in a couple of rooms using an "app". When using C4, they would have to get a C4 light switch, a Controller and get an electrician to your home to replace the switch. They also need somebody to program the switch and Controller. The total price of that compared to a Philips Hue light bulb set, and a bridge + sensor is most likely significant.

I don’t have any issues with the electrician and the programming expenses.

What I am worried about is that a Philips Hue motion sensor cost a fraction of the price of the C4 sensors. (Given this is a retrofit, and not a new install.)  Yes, I understand that there might be some difference in quality, but where I  live. The Hue sensor is less than 1/4 of the price of the C4 sensor. Both Zigbee. My experience is that there is a lot of potential customers that don’t understand why C4 products has to be THAT much more expensive. I don’t understand why the difference in price is so significant either. 

C4 has opened up for Z-Wave, but where are the drivers? (I understand that they cant make drivers for all products) This makes cheaper products more accessible. (Yes, and more potential problems) I do prefer quality over quantity, but I also think that we need to adjust to the market.

If a customer has installed an RGBW LED and wants to use a color wheel to adjust the colors, they have to pay $250 for the Janus driver. I don’t mind that the developer makes money on the work they do, but isn’t this something that C4 should have thought about, and made their own drivers? Isn’t this a MUST HAVE if you have RGBW?

BakPak. Insane prices compared to Ubiquiti or other vendors. The prices might be different in the US compared to the European market. Here, everything from C4 is a lot more expensive, and with a lower profit margin than other products. Yes, BakPak is easy to use. Still...

C4 KNX is more expensive and cheaper looking than other comparable brands.

So sure. If you have a $10 000 000 home. Spending $200 000 (random amount) doesn’t seem like much, but if your home is $400 000, then it might be a lot for most people. The people in the $400k homes is not in our target group? Well. They should be, because there is a lot more of them compared to the $10 000 000 segment.

I know that its not fair to compare everything dollar by dollar, but a product price reduction might make the "average Joe" more likely to spend the extra bucks on a custom install.

The biggest reason for anyone to choose C4, in a retrofit home, is the AV integration, which is absolutely outstanding. I do wish that the customer could replace some of the products themselves using Composer HE but I absolutely see that there is a lot that could go wrong there. When argue about opening up C4, I mainly talk about giving us, the dealers more options on what products to use. Especially when it comes to Z-Wave and Zigbee products.

Lets return to the customer in my first example. He might seem like a customer that most of us would not care about because of the size of the project, but who knows what that customer might want to invest when they figure out that C4 is something that they want to integrate in their entire home rather than using Google Home or Samsung Smart Things..

If I am wrong. Please do tell. I am open for any suggestions and arguments that you use when talking to your customers. I understand that it might look like I’m taking a piss at C4 and that is not my intention. Also. Keep in mind that a lot of SnapAV products are not compatible with 240v, and is not available here. 

If you dont want to discuss it in the forum, just message me. If this doesnt make sense to you at all. Ignore me. I dont think I can explain what I mean better than I have done here.

That makes sense. The only thing I'd argue is that you're comparing standalone systems vs a full integration. The value from Control4 does not come from a simple setup with a single use case (i.e. lighting control), the value comes from the full home use case. So lighting, audio, video, cameras, intercom, garage, gate, thermostat, and others when combined. That also means a standard install makes zero sense to be small. It is a better idea to use a different product to save on cost, but they don't integrate into the full ecosystem as well.

As for Ubiquiti, sure they are cheap, but it comes with horrible support. If you know what you are doing and can be your own support, then they are great. If not, then another brand is better.

1 hour ago, Singularity said:

My humble opinion, as a dealer, is that if Control4 doesnt open up for cheaper and easier integration... The big corps will eat most of the business.

Kinda lost me on this one. How is it is not cheap and easy to integrate?

lol, if it takes someone that knows how to use a rhaspberry pi to do an opensource system, then it's still not as easy or up to the standard.

That may be open to DIY, but that does not make it better.

I'd be curious to hear what you consider a full home system because the capabilities of a Control4 system are extensive and have support from other manufacturers.

But... If this pulls those hardcore DIYers away, oh well. Those that aren't DIY will still desire someone to install a professional system.

If you updated your system, then it likely no longer has it. When>>Then is used at customer.control4.com now.

5 minutes ago, zaphod said:

In the Spotify Connect Documentation it says:

Is this constraint still binding?  Is this a bug in the driver or is there some sort of limitation in either Spotify or C4 that causes a limit of 11?
 

Yes. It is a limitation of the Spotify implementation and the available ports per device allowed by Spotify's Connect architecture.

Since the Spotify Connect instance is centralized to the primary controller, there can only be 11.

Yes, it is gone.

12 minutes ago, J0han said:

2.6, strange it was working yesterday. 

 

Control4 ended support for cloud services for anything under 2.7.2 as of October 12th. You will need to update to at least 2.7.2 to get it back.

What Control4 OS version are you using?

7 hours ago, jfh said:

Wouldn’t it only need to be on a VLAN with the controller and the NVR? 

Not if you want the controller to work with it.

For 2). If you completely isolate it on a vlan, that defeats the purpose of integrating it since you would need it accessible by other devices and let other devices see it.

If you don't already consider your internal network as insecure, then I would suggest doing so and put passwords on everything.

The last time I saw someone ask and post the answer (I forget where), the answer given was they wanted to keep it proprietary and not able to integrate with other automation systems. Same for the Leaf Matrix switches.

That's going to be a waste of time. I've already seen it asked.

Pretty sure nobody has that because Control4 did not provide it to anyone.

Yes, has to be purchased through your dealer.

If it is 3.1.1 to 3.1.3, you need Composer HE now.

Composer ME was discontinued. You will need Composer HE.

On 5/18/2020 at 9:51 AM, Gary Leeds UK said:

The announcements via Sonos are faster than our our T3 Touchscreens  

Just noticed this.

Sonos announcements are the go to now if you have them.