Nest introduces smoke/carbon detector

[Cyknight]

Keep telling yourself it's the same device. The nest is better in every feature, and easier to use.

Your device is about the same as an apple and orange both have vitamin C. Given the option of the nest vs your Edwards, I'm willing to bet 99% of the population would pick the nest.

"My" Edwards? As opposed to "your" Nest?

My point is that it's neither new, nor pioneering, and only mildly innovative - disregarding the occupancy tie-in for the T-Stat, which is too specific to their own T-Stat to really count.

I'm NOT saying the exact thing that does all of the one NEST says it'll do is out there. Nor am I saying things out there do these things AS GOOD as the Nest (says it will do this).

My sole and only point is that groundbreaking is overstating. Why take that so personal?

[cdepaola]

Ok, where to start... First, I've been in the fire service for over 20 years serving at various levels including but not limited to Training & Safety Officer as well as Fire Inspector/Investigator.

The Nest Smoke Detector have a very real cool factor and if it gets smoke detectors into more homes that's a good thing. It also does indeed have some very wow or cool factor tech built in.

Its not "Ground Breaking"... Ground breaking would be finding a way to get working smoke/co detectors to everyone that needs one.

These are not going to get smoke detectors in more peoples homes, the people who can afford these will already have working smoke detectors.

Heat detectors are generally recommended for a small subset of spaces, mainly kitchens and garages, because a smoke detector will alarm much earlier then a heat detector.

I've got First Alert combination detectors in my home right now that are interconnected and that speak and tell me where the activation is. They are a combination of wireless and hard wired thus can be retrofitted to areas that don't have interconnected wiring.

Shutting off your HVAC isn't a bad idea but in reality unless your fire is next to your furnace your system isn't going to spread smoke faster then the fire itself. Shutting off HVAC systems is important in high rises where the amount of air being moved is much larger and where it can move air stories above or below a fire floor.

The little light that turns on during an activation is a neat gimmick.

Knowing what detector has a low batter is a nice feature especially in a large home.

The Wifi app is a gmmick, but it will sell a lot of these because people like connected things.

I hope to GOD they don't ever tell people to get their fire extinguisher. We have taught people for years to leave the fire extinguisher to the pro's. Unless your standing next the fire when it starts and the extinguisher is sitting next to you, GET OUT OF THE HOUSE.

[THEORY]

This is something that shouldn't be brushed off, this is a device that saves lives and yes nest will make money but I'm also sure they will save many more lives with their units compared to competitive devices.

The face the it speaks to you and communicates to the mothership and an app to maintain it's core functionality and ensure it will work when needed is innovative enough.

[THEORY]

The product is innovative, and substantially different then other products, that is ground breaking. Plus it doesn't look like crap.

The wifi isn't a gimmick in that it keeps the devices online. The fact that people buy and are sometimes required to keep fire extingishers on hand is reason enough to tell them where the thing is. Sure you don't want everyone to be a firefighter but people also will try in the early stages and it's better they do whats right instead of tossing water on a fire in the kitchen or something else.

[GoGo Delicious]

It's not as if this isn't possible already.

+1

I have to agree with Cyknight. This is not ground breaking and in fact we have had all these features in our current home system which have been available for quite a while now.

If your security/fire system & HA is not doing this now, then it was not properly designed and integrated.

Nest products are good for those who do not have an automation system. They package different features of what a HA system can do into a stand alone product that address one issue, HVAC for example. If you have an automation system Nest products are a wast of money. As I said above, if your security/fire system/CO was integrated properly with your HA system then there is nothing more a Nest product can offer you.

There are plenty of things Nest cannot do that HA system can do when it comes to managing HVAC and Smoke/Fire/CO.

[RyanE]

Since my 15 connected Smoke alarms *combined* cost less than *2* of the Nest units, I think I'll stick with what I have, thanks.

Yes, it's cool, and yes, it'd be nice to know which unit is telling me it's got low batteries, since I replace my batteries once a year, I'd never get that notification. I also hardwired motions in nearly all rooms, so the motion info wouldn't be an additional sell for me.

I think this is a niche market product, but the nice thing for Nest is, the niche they're going for is the same one they're already hitting with the Thermostat, so I think this is likely to be a good win for Nest.

Ground-breaking? That's marketing speak for "something cool *we* do, as opposed to stuff others have done".

RyanE

Edited to Add: Also, when did THEORY start working at Nest?

[cdepaola]

Hey Theory, how about you stick to automation and AV and leave handing out recommendation to people on fire safety to those that do it for a living.

I'll repeat it again... Unless your standing next to the fire when it starts and the fire extinguisher is sitting right next to you DONT TRY AND PUT IT OUT. Get out of your home and call 911. The rate at which a fire grows and spreads is much more rapid then you would think. On top of this most people do not know how to properly use a fire extinguisher and will fail to extinguish the fire at which point it may have already grown to a size that makes escape difficult, yes fire grows that rapidly.

It is not that substantially different, its a smoke detector using the same technology that smoke detectors have used for some time. It has a built in CO detector which is nothing new. It has a heat detector which is of limited real use. It has voice announcements, which is nothing new. It does have some fancy flashing lights and is Wifi that do make it admittedly interesting and cool. The wifi WILL not make it detect CO or a fire any quicker. It will alert a user that the detector needs a new battery, BUT the user has to actually listen to this notice and replace the battery. We have been telling people for YEARS to replace their batteries twice a year yet they still don't do it. We've been telling them to install them yet they still don't do it.

I'll say it again... Want to save lives? Get simple smoke detectors into every residence and building... Want to make money? Build a gimmicky smoke detector.

[RyanE]

I'm not sure I agree with "this product doesn't look like crap", either. The big ring of LEDs reminds me of the ugly as sin routers that are in most offices on the ceiling. I like *round* things on the ceiling, square ones on the walls, but that's because I'm an old fogey.

Now, if it were also a powerline Ethernet wireless access point with WiFi roaming built-in for that price point, count me in.

RyanE

P.S. It does sound like they've thought out a *lot* of use cases that would be handy for people who don't have a full automation system (nighttime walking lights, battery OK nightly reminder, etc.).

[urbanmark]

This is not ground breaking and in fact we have had all these features in our current home system which have been available for quite a while now.

This argument sounds similar to when the iPod was introduced and we know how that turned out for all the other MP3 players/manufacturers.

Whether you feel it's groundbreaking or not, Nest is bringing new products to market AND fortunately for us, Control4 is working on integration. When will that C4 release be out, can't be soon enough!

[ILoveC4]

Did wappinghigh somehow get a hold of THEORY's credentials?

[THEORY]

You contradict yourself in so many ways in this post. Go read what some of the features do and how they work. Again you assume they are like other devices with similar feature yet I'm willing to bet you have barely read anything about the device.

Also you have no idea what my experience is so you might want to keep to yourself about certain things.

You say saving lives is by putting simple smoke detectors, yet you say people still don't put in batteries. Apparently simple doesn't cut it.

I could care less if you have run into 2000 fires and put them all out by buckets you carted over your shoulder. There is no doubt this gimmick riddled device will save lives. It will also make other come out with better devices and lower price points which will in turn help save lives, this is a product long overdue for awareness and groundbreaking new features. It just happened deal with it.

I am well aware of how a fire works, how fast they spread, and the best case is to get out. I am also aware of what the realities of a fire are and how many don't have a working detector, and how others are notified too late.

If this device can say smoke detected in bedroom, and give you 10 more seconds to get people out or even possibly put the fire out before everyone dies and the place burns down that is the reality. It's also one of few that can do it for the retrofit market, which is much larger then the number of homes that have 120v smokes interconnected. Many of which are not functional or not wired correctly.

you can live in fantasy land or reality and the device is very good for the real world, not the one Ronald MacDonald lives in.

Hey Theory, how about you stick to automation and AV and leave handing out recommendation to people on fire safety to those that do it for a living.

I'll repeat it again... Unless your standing next to the fire when it starts and the fire extinguisher is sitting right next to you DONT TRY AND PUT IT OUT. Get out of your home and call 911. The rate at which a fire grows and spreads is much more rapid then you would think. On top of this most people do not know how to properly use a fire extinguisher and will fail to extinguish the fire at which point it may have already grown to a size that makes escape difficult, yes fire grows that rapidly.

It is not that substantially different, its a smoke detector using the same technology that smoke detectors have used for some time. It has a built in CO detector which is nothing new. It has a heat detector which is of limited real use. It has voice announcements, which is nothing new. It does have some fancy flashing lights and is Wifi that do make it admittedly interesting and cool. The wifi WILL not make it detect CO or a fire any quicker. It will alert a user that the detector needs a new battery, BUT the user has to actually listen to this notice and replace the battery. We have been telling people for YEARS to replace their batteries twice a year yet they still don't do it. We've been telling them to install them yet they still don't do it.

I'll say it again... Want to save lives? Get simple smoke detectors into every residence and building... Want to make money? Build a gimmicky smoke detector.

[Kevin L]

what a nice thread

[chesterwilson]

Since my 15 connected Smoke alarms *combined* cost less than *2* of the Nest units, I think I'll stick with what I have, thanks.

Yes, it's cool, and yes, it'd be nice to know which unit is telling me it's got low batteries, since I replace my batteries once a year, I'd never get that notification. I also hardwired motions in nearly all rooms, so the motion info wouldn't be an additional sell for me.

I think this is a niche market product, but the nice thing for Nest is, the niche they're going for is the same one they're already hitting with the Thermostat, so I think this is likely to be a good win for Nest.

Ground-breaking? That's marketing speak for "something cool *we* do, as opposed to stuff others have done".

RyanE

Edited to Add: Also, when did THEORY start working at Nest?

You mean you aren't going to spend $1800 to upgrade your smoke alarms?

[ILoveC4]

Since my 15 connected Smoke alarms *combined* cost less than *2* of the Nest units' date=' I think I'll stick with what I have, thanks.

Yes, it's cool, and yes, it'd be nice to know which unit is telling me it's got low batteries, since I replace my batteries once a year, I'd never get that notification. I also hardwired motions in nearly all rooms, so the motion info wouldn't be an additional sell for me.

I think this is a niche market product, but the nice thing for Nest is, the niche they're going for is the same one they're already hitting with the Thermostat, so I think this is likely to be a good win for Nest.

Ground-breaking? That's marketing speak for "something cool *we* do, as opposed to stuff others have done".

RyanE

Edited to Add: Also, when did THEORY start working at Nest? [/quote']

You mean you aren't going to spend $1800 to needlessly replace your smoke alarms?

I fixed that for you.

[THEORY]

I agree, the problem is this is a forum for C4 fanboys. Sure I sell systems and have a ton of time and money invested. But the masses do not have all the features we all do. Sure I can take 2-3 parts and provide similar functionality as the nest, but it wouldn't be nearly as simple and I would be able to sell it to nearly as many people.

Most dealers on here are interested in the bottom line of making money. This device doesn't bode well for getting rich as an integrator, but it does do it's job better then any other option at it's price point. Not everyone can afford a nest Tstat, or nest Protect, but many more can afford one or both then can afford C4 system.

This will save lives for anyone that replaces their simple detectors will most likely have a much better chance of getting out sooner and be better protected, maybe it will even get older homes that don't have detectors in the bedrooms to install more devices just from awareness and ease of install.

Heck I've been installing smoke detectors in all bedrooms for years and it's not code in Canada yet. I get to hear competitors say why would you need that and it's a waste of money. Hence why I know to look past the opinions of others and look at the facts.

If everyone here has money to spend and wants to save lives, install a residential sprinkler system, but I doubt many and be surprised if more then 2-3 here would have such a system. Yet the stats are in Canada nobody has ever died from fire in a home with functional sprinkler system.

This is not ground breaking and in fact we have had all these features in our current home system which have been available for quite a while now.

This argument sounds similar to when the iPod was introduced and we know how that turned out for all the other MP3 players/manufacturers.

Whether you feel it's groundbreaking or not' date=' Nest is bringing new products to market AND fortunately for us, Control4 is working on integration. When will that C4 release be out, can't be soon enough![/quote']

[THEORY]

Plus you don't even need to hunt down a bootleg of Composer Pro to install the nest Protect. It's already DIY.

Since my 15 connected Smoke alarms *combined* cost less than *2* of the Nest units' date=' I think I'll stick with what I have, thanks.

Yes, it's cool, and yes, it'd be nice to know which unit is telling me it's got low batteries, since I replace my batteries once a year, I'd never get that notification. I also hardwired motions in nearly all rooms, so the motion info wouldn't be an additional sell for me.

I think this is a niche market product, but the nice thing for Nest is, the niche they're going for is the same one they're already hitting with the Thermostat, so I think this is likely to be a good win for Nest.

Ground-breaking? That's marketing speak for "something cool *we* do, as opposed to stuff others have done".

RyanE

Edited to Add: Also, when did THEORY start working at Nest? [/quote']

You mean you aren't going to spend $1800 to needlessly replace your smoke alarms?

I fixed that for you.

[RyanE]

I'd guess that anyone who spent the *same amount* as one Nest smoke and purchased 10 "inferior" smokes would have a better chance surviving a fire, since having the smoke in the *same room* will trigger much earlier than a single "superior" unit would.

It's not like hooking up (now mandatory) smoke alarms is so difficult that connecting the 3 required wires is any more difficult than connecting the Nest. My $12-15 smokes also have an LED indicating that they're working (2, actually)!

I'm certainly not anti-Nest, I hope them all the best, as better smokes and innovation can only be a good thing, but saying "these thermostats will definitely save lives" overlooks the fact that for most people who *need* smokes and don't have them, this is not going to be an option, due to the price. People who can afford the Nest, likely *already have* smokes that work perfectly well, and they'll upgrade to these for the nice additional features.

RyanE

[GoGo Delicious]

If everyone here has money to spend and wants to save lives, install a residential sprinkler system, but I doubt many and be surprised if more then 2-3 here would have such a system.

Our house has one.

Thats one. Lets see if we can beat the 3

[THEORY]

You do know most homes do not have wiring to interconnect the smokes? I wonder how noticeable the microscopic LED is, and when the last time you tested to see if they all work and communicate is.

Not sure at what you are trying to say with your first sentence, guessing it was supposed to be sarcastic or funny, but doesn't make any logical sense.

I guess when someone has no detectors in the bedroom and the wall burns down to get the smoke to the one in the hall it would be good to have the superior one in the hall to detect a few seconds earlier.

Or maybe you meant when someone has a tenant in the basement and a fire starts above or below and there is no way to interconnect the one upstairs to downstairs having one superior one will help everyone get out alive.

Who knows. I trust my life in the hands of a $12 device.

I'd guess that anyone who spent the *same amount* as one Nest smoke and purchased 10 "inferior" smokes would have a better chance surviving a fire, since having the smoke in the *same room* will trigger much earlier than a single "superior" unit would.

It's not like hooking up (now mandatory) smoke alarms is so difficult that connecting the 3 required wires is any more difficult than connecting the Nest. My $12-15 smokes also have an LED indicating that they're working (2, actually)!

I'm certainly not anti-Nest, I hope them all the best, as better smokes and innovation can only be a good thing, but saying "these thermostats will definitely save lives" overlooks the fact that for most people who *need* smokes and don't have them, this is not going to be an option, due to the price. People who can afford the Nest, likely *already have* smokes that work perfectly well, and they'll upgrade to these for the nice additional features.

RyanE

[RyanE]

If everyone here has money to spend and wants to save lives' date=' install a residential sprinkler system, but I doubt many and be surprised if more then 2-3 here would have such a system.[/quote']

Our house has one.

Thats one. Lets see if we can beat the 3

I came *really* close to putting a sprinkler system in my basement, which we finished last year, but I basically ran out of time. They now have sprinklers you can (legally) hook into the residential supply, which makes things much less expensive.

RyanE

[cdepaola]

This will save lives for anyone that replaces their simple detectors will most likely have a much better chance of getting out sooner and be better protected, maybe it will even get older homes that don't have detectors in the bedrooms to install more devices just from awareness and ease of install.

This proves your background is not in fire protection despite your comment that I don't know your experience/background and is the most insane statement I've seen posted. To say that the Nest product will save more lives then a standard smoke detector simply makes no sense what so ever. Nothing about the Nest gives it a real edge over any other smoke detector on the market.

To make statements like you've been making I'd expect to see years of data backing up your claims, UL testing showing the Nest has a better detection threshold, something. Did you design this thing because damn you are Nest's wet dream of a marketer.

[ILoveC4]

You do know most homes do not have wiring to interconnect the smokes? I wonder how noticeable the microscopic LED is, and when the last time you tested to see if they all work and communicate is.

Not sure at what you are trying to say with your first sentence, guessing it was supposed to be sarcastic or funny, but doesn't make any logical sense.

I guess when someone has no detectors in the bedroom and the wall burns down to get the smoke to the one in the hall it would be good to have the superior one in the hall to detect a few seconds earlier.

Or maybe you meant when someone has a tenant in the basement and a fire starts above or below and there is no way to interconnect the one upstairs to downstairs having one superior one will help everyone get out alive.

Who knows. I trust my life in the hands of a $12 device.

Any house build here in the last 25 years has the smoke detectors wires together. In fact, I think it may go back way further than that.

Now, it would be nice knowing which one has a dead battery. I have one somewhere in my house chirping. It's somewhere I don't go often, because the only time I hear it is when I wake up at 5:00AM and the rest of the house is sleeping. I really should figure that out one of these days. I think I'll change all the batteries before I spend $2,000 on these ones though...

[THEORY]

Close still keeps the count to 1

If everyone here has money to spend and wants to save lives' date=' install a residential sprinkler system, but I doubt many and be surprised if more then 2-3 here would have such a system.[/quote']

Our house has one.

Thats one. Lets see if we can beat the 3

I came *really* close to putting a sprinkler system in my basement, which we finished last year, but I basically ran out of time. They now have sprinklers you can (legally) hook into the residential supply, which makes things much less expensive.

RyanE

[RyanE]

I guess when someone has no detectors in the bedroom and the wall burns down to get the smoke to the one in the hall it would be good to have the superior one in the hall to detect a few seconds earlier.

It's pretty clear when I say 10 'inferior' detectors spread throughout a home is likely better than 1 'superior' detector somewhere else in the house (especially when it's superiority are only ancillary features).

RyanE

[THEORY]

You said yourself people don't replace the batteries, that in itself is reason alone it will save more lives. If you think the nest will not increase the percentage of people that make sure the devices are powered and functional you are kidding yourself.

I don't need UL to tell me the obvious.

http://www.firesafetycouncil.com/english/pubsafet/safact.htm

There are your numbers, more systems functional and offering enhanced detection will save more lives.

Having the connected features and being able to alert neighbors, or tenants, or even trigger a vibration type device like a phone for the deaf. Will save lives. If you think even an increase of 1% isn't worth the added cost or awareness you don't value human life.

This will save lives for anyone that replaces their simple detectors will most likely have a much better chance of getting out sooner and be better protected' date=' maybe it will even get older homes that don't have detectors in the bedrooms to install more devices just from awareness and ease of install.[/quote']

This proves your background is not in fire protection despite your comment that I don't know your experience/background and is the most insane statement I've seen posted. To say that the Nest product will save more lives then a standard smoke detector simply makes no sense what so ever. Nothing about the Nest gives it a real edge over any other smoke detector on the market.

To make statements like you've been making I'd expect to see years of data backing up your claims, UL testing showing the Nest has a better detection threshold, something. Did you design this thing because damn you are Nest's wet dream of a marketer.