philvella Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 I've just bought a brand new house that includes Control 4 lighting and audio but I want to add video distribution too. The installer isn't very familiar with this and suggests an HDMI matrix but I think that there must be a better and cheaper way. I'm tech savvie but totally new to Control4. Every TV is wired with a coax and three Cat cables that all lead back to racks in the integrated garage. Requirements 1) The solution must be easy to use for wide and kids, ideally through a single remote 2) Rip blu-rays & DVDs to a NAS or server and be able to watch them on any TV 3) Set TV recordings and play back from any TV 4) Watch different content simultaneaously in different rooms (up to 4) 5) All hardware located centrally (apart from any small devices that can be hidden behind wall mounted TVs) HELP - What is the best way of achieving this? What has worked for you? I've done loads of reading online and I'm totally confused. It looks like there is no need for an HDMI matrix so I'm looking at: MyMoves based server or HTPC running Win7 media centre? TV recording appears to be the most challenging part - TV card in a HTPC? How to control this? In the UK I can't find any off the shelf PVRs that will distribute video over a network. Content recorded on server / HTPC / NAS accessed using Popcorn Hour or Dune HD (extra vegetables driver). Live TV can be watched using the tuner in each TV. Thank you for any help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Err you are listing the EXACT requirements that match the functionality of using a video matrix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstafford388 Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Yup. Don't go cheap on the matrix. You'll regret it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericscales Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Totally agree. With your requirements, you'd waste more time and frustration trying to cobble something together. You mentioned you already have the Cat5. Perfect, throw a matrix in the rack and there's no retrofit wiring to be done. I'm not sure what products are available in the UK, but I have a setup just as you describe. I use DirecTV with the main box in the rack and the minis in the various rooms. Everything else (Dune Media player, Apple TV, etc., is in the rack. I started out without a Matrix and now that I have one it's probably my favorite piece of equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAV Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 The cobbled system is a Tivo/Genie/Xfinity to centrally record, and client boxes on the back of each TV.AppleTV or similar setup for the movies, again on the back of each TV. Or just do a Matrix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 The cobbled system is a Tivo/Genie/Xfinity to centrally record, and client boxes on the back of each TV.AppleTV or similar setup for the movies, again on the back of each TV. Or just do a Matrix. And make your wife that much happier in ease of use, plus save money on all local controllers .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philvella Posted June 5, 2014 Author Share Posted June 5, 2014 Okay, very strong support for using a matrix! My installer has suggested using the Control4 8x8 which is £4k plus the receiver for each TV. Does this count as a decent matrix or would you use something different? I could probably live with a 4x4 if that significantly cuts the price (the extras on the house are starting to get out of hand!) Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 The control4 one is leaf and yes it is a good matrix. If you use cable TV get TiVo Roamio and lifetime subs. That will start the princess of paying for the matrix over time. Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 The Control4 switch is a good piece, but there are others out there as well, as well as perfectly good 4x4 options - many of which are sold by control4 as 3rd party devices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philvella Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 Thanks for all of the matrix related responses, but I can't help feeling that if everything is going to be stored on harddrives then converting from HDMI to a signal over ethernet and then back to HDMI has unnecessary steps. Surely this can be done elegantly without a matrix? Windows Home Server running MyMovies (auto ripping of discs and RAID 5 storage)Windows Media Centre with TV card(s) for TV recording duties (have seen mention of this being 'virtualised' on the server or seperate hardware)Dune HD or Popcorn Hour at each TVExtra Vegitable Control4 drivers I think that my biggest challenge will be finding a UK Installer with the skills and experience to help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubben Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Converting HDMI to cat5 and back isnt a problem regarding quality, just price. You can also make realy clean installs with this in the future. If your wife decides that you should have a TV in the ceiling above the bathtub, and have the same sources and possibilities that in your livingroom, all you need to do is to install a powersocket and cat5 and youre good to go. But if there is no problem to place the sources at each TV, I dont see any real benefit with using a matrix-switch. It puts higher pressure on the TV-drivers though because they need to do all the switching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Thanks for all of the matrix related responses, but I can't help feeling that if everything is going to be stored on harddrives then converting from HDMI to a signal over ethernet and then back to HDMI has unnecessary steps. Surely this can be done elegantly without a matrix?Windows Home Server running MyMovies (auto ripping of discs and RAID 5 storage)Windows Media Centre with TV card(s) for TV recording duties (have seen mention of this being 'virtualised' on the server or seperate hardware)Dune HD or Popcorn Hour at each TVExtra Vegitable Control4 driversI think that my biggest challenge will be finding a UK Installer with the skills and experience to help!but this is not 'everything', just the locally stored movie / tv series content. Live tv and streaming services will still come by boxes with HDMI cables and the Dune or Popcorn still ends up with an HDMI cable. You could put a popcorn at each tv but would still need to distribute tv (in the US the TiVo mini could do this) then need to program the tv to switch sources and have hardware at each location. So plusses and minuses for both options the balun transfer of HDMI is lossless and for the number of screens etc you are on the right lines with distribution so roll with that not a dual hybrid. Add the Dune to the HDMI matrix. Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 My solution is relatively inexpensive but you have to acquire the pieces second hand. Set up a SageTV server that hosts the media files and that acts as a DVR - I have about 10TB of hard drives in my server, two cable TV tuners plus 4 OTA tuners. At each TV use a SageTV extender that connects to the server via ethernet. Each extender costs around $150. Unfortunately SageTV was acquired by Google three years ago and you can't buy the stuff anymore unless you buy it used on the SageTV forums or eBay, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericscales Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 The control4 one is leaf and yes it is a good matrix. If you use cable TV get TiVo Roamio and lifetime subs. That will start the princess of paying for the matrix over time. Sent from my LT26i using TapatalkQuick tangent. I always wondered what the C4 one was based off of. Thanks for this info.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philvella Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 but this is not 'everything', just the locally stored movie / tv series content. Live tv and streaming services will still come by boxes with HDMI cables and the Dune or Popcorn still ends up with an HDMI cable.You could put a popcorn at each tv but would still need to distribute tv (in the US the TiVo mini could do this) then need to program the tv to switch sources and have hardware at each location.So plusses and minuses for both options the balun transfer of HDMI is lossless and for the number of screens etc you are on the right lines with distribution so roll with that not a dual hybrid. Add the Dune to the HDMI matrix.Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk If I had a small Popcorn Hour / Dune HD wall mounted behind each TV (for stored blu-rays / recordered TV content) and used the tuner in the TV for live TV (UK Freeview or Freesat signal distributed by coax) would this work?Can the Control4 remote be programmed to send the TV IR commands as well as the control over IP signals? I can see the attraction of a HDMI matrix but I'm not going to have any sources other than a movie server and recorded TV so don't want to spend £4k on the matrix unless it is going to make a huge difference to reliability or ease of use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 You're putting how many Players/tuners etc to off-set the cost of a matrix? I'm assuming this is a cost saving measure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philvella Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 I'll have 4 TVs on the system each of which will need a player (popcorn hour / dune hd) to access the NAS/server4 @ £250 = £1000 I thought that each TV could use its integrated tuner for live TV£nil Sounds much better value than a £4000 matrix but I am totally new to this so if I'm making life difficult for myself then please say! (any solution will still need the movie server so no price difference) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericscales Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 If I had a small Popcorn Hour / Dune HD wall mounted behind each TV (for stored blu-rays / recordered TV content) and used the tuner in the TV for live TV (UK Freeview or Freesat signal distributed by coax) would this work?Can the Control4 remote be programmed to send the TV IR commands as well as the control over IP signals? I can see the attraction of a HDMI matrix but I'm not going to have any sources other than a movie server and recorded TV so don't want to spend £4k on the matrix unless it is going to make a huge difference to reliability or ease of use. Folks, feel free to correct me here. I don't know how the UK sat signals work, so I'll eliminate that from the equation and assume you have that covered with your existing TVs with built-in tuners. To answer your question, the C4 remotes (I'm speaking with experience of the SR-250 only) communicate via ZigBee with no IR. So, to even turn on/off the TV for each room you'll need one of the following (for each TV): 1) HDMI module with the the nice IR/RS-232 capability - the endpoint of the matrix2) IP driver for the TV and Ethernet to the TV3) HC-250 behind the TV with IR or RS-2324) IR to the primary controller (no idea on the max IR cable length)5) Zigbee to IR box For the movie streaming, you could put a Dune or whatever behind each TV, but then what happens when the new AppleTV comes out and everyone wants that. Ok, bad example, they're cheap. I guess my point is, you could certainly do what you are proposing without a matrix, however, you're limiting yourself in the long term. It's kinda like buying a Porsche without any options. My recommendation is, if it is a matter of cost, to hold out and put this in when you're ready to do a matrix. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Local content. 4 PCH 4 TVs Caox to each location for tv Cat to home location. For PCH/server. I assume you use the server to record broadcast tv? That's the plumbing. Co trol. Each tv will need access to likely an ir bug so if you won't put an hc200 or 250 at each tv you will need to run extra cat cable. A 250 can do 4 ir. So you could get away with one if the Pch and everything else is ip control. You could only have osd at one location if that as you have to get the signal from home run to the tv. Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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