Lutron

[SMHarman]

Interesting the NY Times today has a room for debate on corporate goals.

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/04/16/what-are-corporations-obligations-to-shareholders/corporations-dont-have-to-maximize-profits

[SMHarman]

That basically means no profit.

This means no margin or profit at all.

Which comes back to where you price your labor.

The plumber will install the Home Depot FBO sink and faucet and make money doing it on their labor rate.

The integrator should be able to do the same with the FBO RadioRA switch.

[Cyknight]

Which comes back to where you price your labor.

The plumber will install the Home Depot FBO sink and faucet and make money doing it on their labor rate.

The integrator should be able to do the same with the FBO RadioRA switch.

But that integrator can do that without SELLING the physical product.

[SMHarman]

Yes they can, as can the plumber. Both models work.

Saying your tech is $50 an hour and subsidising that with hardware sales is where this fall's down.

Most people you are selling HA to have a respect for the concept of a fair hourly rate. They may have their own, they certainly pay their attorney, accountant, architects by the hour and understand the training they have. If you can't Bill a fair hourly rate you are not presenting your skills and training properly.

[therockhr]

I wonder why Lutron is offering distributor pricing for just taking the online courses.

 

I also wonder if Snaffle8 (and installers in his area) moved away from selling Lutron because of end users price shopping the product or because end users have access to the software. His original post mentioned nothing of the discount pricing. It only mentioned the end user getting the software.

[Cyknight]

Yes they can, as can the plumber. Both models work.

Saying your tech is $50 an hour and subsidising that with hardware sales is where this fall's down.

 

 

Absolutely - but there is cost to selling a product: sales people, storage, warranty handling and more. If the end-user can get the product for your own cost, you cannot sell the product to them without incurring a loss (the difference between a single item's profit and it's margin) or for a higher price that they are unwilling to pay.

This could be quite different if the product in question has no local point where people can get it, but even that is marginalized due to the internet and large on-line retailers -  especially on products that you don't need right this minute.

 

I also wonder if Snaffle8 (and installers in his area) moved away from selling Lutron because of end users price shopping the product or because end users have access to the software. His original post mentioned nothing of the discount pricing. It only mentioned the end user getting the software.

 

 

He did mention the low price points but not distributor pick-up/pricing ability.

What their motivation is I cannot say - I'm not them.

 

My bet would be a bit of both though, or perhaps the fact that it's both - while I cannot say I specifically agree, I can understand that if a product already HAS minimal margin, the software becoming 'freely' available can be the last drop.

The issue likely is less the end-user/DIY user getting the software, it's the 'trunk-installer" (real or imagined) that tends to tick people off.

The thought being that you can't sell the product for any sort of profit, and that the client comes to your place, gets a quite, possibly a plan set-up and then turns around and "trunks" underscores your wages. Why bother with the (physical!) product at all then? May as well just offer the service.

 

PS the rep is just tearing his hair out because his commission is down the drain - he'll get minimal or no commission on distributor or large-scale/chain store sales.

[SMHarman]

^ which loops back to your point of ill support lutron and add to lutron but if someone walks through the door I am not proposing a lutron solution to them.

[cdepaola]

Absolutely - but there is cost to selling a product: sales people, storage, warranty handling and more. 

 

Huh?

 

Are you trying to imply that you would in this case have someone dedicated to selling Lutron?  Come on now, most business have either someone who does the specification and someone who does the selling, or the same person does both.  Even if your large enough to have a person just doing sales, they are not doing just sales of Lutron. They would be selling every product.  

 

Storage?  This isnt stuff most people keep in stock, even my dealers have to order Control4 Switches if I need one.  They keep very little on the shelf except installation parts, etc. 

 

Ill give you the warranty handling, though your already doing this for all of your other products. 

 

Oh and I'm not specifically talking about you, kind of generic for the business owner. 

[Cyknight]

Huh?

 

Are you trying to imply that you would in this case have someone dedicated to selling Lutron?  Come on now, most business have either someone who does the specification and someone who does the selling, or the same person does both.  Even if your large enough to have a person just doing sales, they are not doing just sales of Lutron. They would be selling every product.  

 

Storage?  This isnt stuff most people keep in stock, even my dealers have to order Control4 Switches if I need one.  They keep very little on the shelf except installation parts, etc. 

 

Ill give you the warranty handling, though your already doing this for all of your other products. 

 

Oh and I'm not specifically talking about you, kind of generic for the business owner. 

 

Regardless of what they sell - it's time spent, time that needs to be factored into your cost. And if that sales person contantly sells things you don't have a margin on.. Whether it's one person doing the sales, design install and programming or they are 4 different people makes not a single difference. It's time spent that could have been spent on something else. If that sales person sells product "a" where you make no money on at all or item "b" where you do make money on matters.

And, using Lutron/lighting - you're not normally talking about a single item, but a considerable, sometimes huge amount of them.

 

Most people don't keep it in stock? Perhaps not - some will. Someone needs to have stock somehow. Even at best I'm not ordering things to come in on the day I need to install, there's ALWAYS some form of storage cost involved. The more different items you sell, the more storage it takes. "Storage" here is also meant in the broad sense - so it includes time to order and receive or go get these items. Whether it's a huge cost per item doesn't matter to the point being made. There's more cost to it than just the cost you get it at a distributor from - thus if you can buy it at said distributor for the exact same price I could - there has to be a difference I sell it for. Which means you likely won;t buy it (or buy less of it)

 

"I do warranty for all my other stuff anyway" - What the heck does that mean. Just because I do warranty (remove, call, deal with the process, install replacement, send item back) for one item I shouldn't factor in that that time costs money - thus eats at the margin on a product? And because I do it for one product - it doesn't matter on the next?

 

 

And by me - I don't mean me personally, but kind of generic for the buseiness owner

[BPFUNK]

Does any know if there is a way to program in C4 around the "Mode" Lutron radiora 2 is in?  I use an away button to toggle Lutron between Away and Normal mode.  would love to program my Nest using the state of radiora mode.

[control.four]

I don't think C4 will identify modes in radio Ra2 as a variable or based on what programmed phantom button is pressed on main repeater. I have away and normal modes programmed into C4 based on if alarm is on or not. You could have radio ra2 go into away mode (phantom switch press on the main repeater that you can program) when alarm is turned on (away not stay) and go into normal mode (again a phantom switch press) when alarm is turned off. I don't have a Nest but try to see if Nest will see that change and do what you want it to do.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BPFUNK]

Is there a trick to using advanced lighting with a Lutron phantom button for scenes? I'm experiencing the backup problem when sending commands to the individual lights.

[Control-IT]

I don't see the argument. Make as much money on the RA as you would on a C4. The customer that wants to shop it online isn't a customer that would be coming to me to do it for them. so it just comes down to which product is better and the customer should be willing to pay for your experience and knowledge.

 

By the way which product is better? C4 costs more and the buttons fell kind of cheap but integrate a lot better I assume? No secondary software?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[control4.texas]

..

 

[control4.texas]

What doesn't Control4 set a license fee for endusers to get access to Pro equal to or more than what the average amount a dealer makes from the particular consumer? Give that money to the dealer and let the consumers access to a locked version of pro that works in only their system? This way the dealers are happy and C4 makes money. They would certainly benefit from an infusion of cash. I know I'll get slammed - but hey if you don't mention it then no one listens. I would recommend C4 survey people who own their system. I have had C4 for 4 years and have never even been given a survey to fill out if I am satisfied or not. Yes the system works but I am not sure I would get locked down like this again.

[Cyknight]

Just now, control4.texas said:

What doesn't Control4 set a license fee for endusers to get access to Pro equal to or more than what the average amount a dealer makes from the particular consumer

Because they don't. Because they don't want to. Because they do not want to (and can't) support it.

 

1 minute ago, control4.texas said:

but hey if you don't mention it then no one listens

Except that it comes up often enough.

[control.four]

.