koxkp Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 41 minutes ago, wappinghigh said: It's about whether or not this monitoring networks "24/7 alarm process" style model is really practical for large private personal home networks So are there dealers that really have monitors on clients networks and access to routers outside of composer? I know we can give the dealer access the my c4 site, but that is for composer. My initial dealer would be happy to never hear from me again and did very little network setup. C4 almost felt plug and play for him in my existing network. Are there dealers out there that are this proactive on monitors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 2 minutes ago, koxkp said: So are there dealers that really have monitors on clients networks and access to routers outside of composer? I know we can give the dealer access the my c4 site, but that is for composer. My initial dealer would be happy to never hear from me again and did very little network setup. C4 almost felt plug and play for him in my existing network. Are there dealers out there that are this proactive on monitors? yes there are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted November 8, 2016 Author Share Posted November 8, 2016 Yes. And it's the way C4 want to take things IMHO. Could be wrong. But that's why my little post has probably caused so much trouble around here. I've totally had enough of this "control freak" attitude and mentality around here. Networks are NON propriety. And generic. And that somehow I am some sort of loop da loop nut job for calling this out Goodbye. . Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted November 8, 2016 Author Share Posted November 8, 2016 Let me also add I also DONT HAVE A PROBLEM with dealers writing contracts for 24/7 monitoring either. If that's what their customers want? Fine. Just don't expect me to do it. Don't withhold information, manuals, FAQ's, and network user guides of GENERIC equipment and setups and think users of the Control4 product like me will be happy about that.... Goodbye. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 Are there dealers out there that are this proactive on monitors? See ihiji and pakedge bakpak. Yes they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 22 minutes ago, wappinghigh said: Yes. And it's the way C4 want to take things IMHO. Could be wrong. But that's why my little post has probably caused so much trouble around here. I've totally had enough of this "control freak" attitude from around here. Networks are NON propriety. And generic. Goodbye. . Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk they want to take it that way if people want them to, there is no requirement. the only requirement to make c4 work is a good network Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted November 8, 2016 Author Share Posted November 8, 2016 Sure. But to have a good network we need the information. Goodbye Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9800pro Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 Sure. But to have a good network we need the information. Goodbye Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Then take a class somewhere related to network. Network requirements for C4 are in 99% the same as every other HA system, it just need's to be stable and properly configured. For me as a dealer i like to see customers who understand network but i don't like to see him beeing proactive with it. sent from my G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 Sure. But to have a good network we need the information. Goodbye Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Do we? Isn't the network the plumbing of the system. I don't need to know how my electricity works to plug in a blender. I don't need to know how my plumbing works to fill a glass of water, or even to swap my dishwasher. I probably know enough to be dangerous on all of them. Why was your packet storm any more or less critical than a water pipe bursting on Sunday at 11.30 pm. Then take a class somewhere related to network. Network requirements for C4 are in 99% the same as every other HA system, it just need's to be stable and properly configured. For me as a dealer i like to see customers who understand network but i don't like to see him beeing proactive with it. sent from my G2 Just like you need stable electricity. The customer gets the end points, the taps and shower heads and remotes and tvs the rest just works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 Ok. So why is there this Prosure line or whatever it's called that C4 has taken over and dealers are onselling? See? I dontt even know why that is? And what if I can't get them in my part of the world? How do I even know what I can source is similar? And what if I want to set up my own network monitoring? What other gear do I need? To do stuff like rebooting and the like? What are the Router settings? Why isn't there protocols and information released to allow me work out what to do? Let alone do it? Why isn't there like a simple wire shark like app? Why isn't the company focused on making this easier for the interested end user like me? Where are the clear to find and follow procedures? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Ok. So why is there this Prosure line or whatever it's called that C4 has taken over and dealers are onselling? See? I dontt even know why that is? And what if I can't get them in my part of the world? How do I even know what I can source is similar? And what if I want to set up my own network monitoring? What other gear do I need? To do stuff like rebooting and the like? What are the Router settings? Why isn't there protocols and information released to allow me to do that? Why isn't there like a simple wire shark like app? Why isn't the company focused on making this easier for the interested end user like me? Where are the clear to find and follow procedures? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pakedge? Because just like the plumber needs to know your plumbing can handle the fancy shower you want, or your electrician needs to know he can hook up that tesla 100A 480v fast charger your HA seller needs to know he can plug into a reliable backbone. C4 does not mandate that is Pakedge but offers it as a piece of horizontal integration. Wire shark on your plumbing, your electricity. Why do you need to reboot? A rock solid dealer install has helthchecks and auto reboots. Mine are handled on a wattbox with ping checks. 99% of control4 customers. Including most on this forum want their network as set and forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 Ok. Post the checklist to make it stable. And set and forget. . The same info that is on the dealer forum. Thanks. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Ok. Post the checklist to make it stable. And set and forget. . The same info that is on the dealer forum. Thanks. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I am not a dealer. Checklist. Unmanaged, robust, reliable, sufficient backplane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 Ok. Then I ask a dealer on this forum to post the checklist to make it stable. The same info that is on the dealer forum. And update it on a regular basis. And if nobody will put their hand up to do it I ask a C4 employee who has access to this information to do it instead. Thanks. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Ok. Then I ask a dealer on this forum to post the checklist to make it stable. The same info that is on the dealer forum. And update it on a regular basis. And if nobody will put their hand up to do it I ask a C4 employee who has access to this information to do it instead. Thanks. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Yeah post proprietary information, get fired, lose your dealership. Documents are marked confidential for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 See. ??? I was right. (About Control 4's approach to this.) 100% vindicated. Goodbye. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 Yeah post proprietary information, get fired, lose your dealership. Documents are marked confidential for a reason. 100% vindicated. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 I'm not sure that is an accurate statement. You are both making assumptions Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 See. ??? I was right. (About Control 4's approach to this.) 100% vindicated. Goodbye. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk And I'm not posting my employers underwriting standards or risk management tools or anything else that will get me fired here or on an forum aligned with my work expertise. Google good home networking or soho networking practices. Pick up a whitepaper from a major vendor in the space. Not much more than that I imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokead Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 May have been asked or raised earlier; or not even relevant to this discussion. Up until about 2013, (when you could also see the list of equipment supported by drivers) C4 posted a list of network products it said were compatible with C4. It included Cisco RV22? and other products including Apple. Based on that list and discussion with my dealer, I bought the Cisco. I subsequently bought an Asia N66u based on direct feedback from C4. Is that what's being discussed here, a list of compatible network products? Note: I recognize it's hard to maintain an up to date list. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecodeman Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 3 hours ago, wappinghigh said: Ok. So why is there this Prosure line or whatever it's called that C4 has taken over and dealers are onselling? See? I dontt even know why that is? And what if I can't get them in my part of the world? How do I even know what I can source is similar? And what if I want to set up my own network monitoring? What other gear do I need? To do stuff like rebooting and the like? What are the Router settings? Why isn't there protocols and information released to allow me work out what to do? Let alone do it? Why isn't there like a simple wire shark like app? Why isn't the company focused on making this easier for the interested end user like me? Where are the clear to find and follow procedures? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I think the reason control4 doesnt do this for you is because control4 supports and trains their dealers, who then sell to and support you, the end user. Control4 is not currently DIY or direct to consumer. If that changes, I'm sure there will be an abundance of more information about how to do things yourself to make your system compatible. Is there another automation company that publishes this kind of stuff for the consumer that Control4 should emulate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 Google. Apple. Again. Missed the point. Networks are non proprietary. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Google. Apple. Again. Missed the point. Networks are non proprietary. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk So is the power socket you plug these devices in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 May have been asked or raised earlier; or not even relevant to this discussion. Up until about 2013, (when you could also see the list of equipment supported by drivers) C4 posted a list of network products it said were compatible with C4. It included Cisco RV22? and other products including Apple. Based on that list and discussion with my dealer, I bought the Cisco. I subsequently bought an Asia N66u based on direct feedback from C4. Is that what's being discussed here, a list of compatible network products? Note: I recognize it's hard to maintain an up to date list. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk That's part of it. Also how to's on backup, rebooting and repowering. Remote network loggin and monitoring. Automated network loggin reports and messaging. What you can do to achieve this with Control4. Programming for automatic orderly shut down of director. Detailed software setups for routers. Recommended Setups of same. Running logs and what to look for. Etc etc. Do's and don'ts. I.e. Spanning tree. Snooping etc etc. One little box selected incorrectly can really screw things up apparently. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 So is the power socket you plug these devices in. Why do you keep using this analogy? It simply doesn't work for me. I'm sorry. Tv's have manuals and they run on the power grid. Computers same. Huge info out there. Control4 Director runs on a network. No manual. No information whatsoever on how to set up a network to let it run properly and efficiently with minimal downtime. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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