Network router recommendations - Pakedge or basic WiFi router?

[Pounce]

I'd say if this is performing for you today just get an 8 port POE switch and try it out. There are dozens of cheap ones on Amazon. If the money isn't an issue the Ubiquiti 8 port POE switch is nice.

[Pounce]

3 minutes ago, elee532 said:

This is pretty cool. Glad now that I ordered that Ubiquiti US-8. 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DKXT4CI

That would make the POE needs of the AP's and Cloudkey a little less messy.

[elee532]

Yeah, I looked at the US-8-150W but it put me over my $500 budget. Is the advantage of the US-8-150W over the US-8 that it has more PoE ports?

If I understand all of this correctly, I have  up to 4 devices that could be PoE powered... 2 access points, 1 ESG router, and 1 Cloud Key. The router and one access point need to be on the first floor, one access point on the second floor, and Cloud Key could go wherever. 

Part of my budget challenge though, is that I have devices on two floors, and thus need two switches. So, it seems my options were:

1. Buy two US-8 switches. A tiny bit over budget, and still not enough PoE ports.
2. Buy two US-8-150W. Ideal, but way over budget.
3. Buy one US-8 and keep using my $29 Office Depot special.
4. Buy one US-8 and use the Pakedge switch that I bought on eBay for $60 before I switched plans and decided to go with Ubiquiti gear.

I went with option #4, with a plan as follows...

• 1st floor - US-8 switch and use its one PoE port for the Access Point. The ESG will use regular power supply.
• Basement - Pakedge switch which can power the Access Point and the Cloud Key.
• Someday, when budget permits I can replace the Pakedge with a US-8-150W.

Hope I’m not missing anything. I would welcome any other suggestions. Thanks for all the help so far!!

 

[Pounce]

Quote

The US-8 is a Poe Powered 8-port gigabit switch with Poe Pass-through.

That Ubi switch is not technically POE. It's simply robbing some power from a POE connection and then passing it through. I'm guessing you are powering it from the packedge  on the POE in port and then putting the AP Lite on the POE out port?

When you write ESG do you mean USG?

[elee532]

2 minutes ago, Pounce said:

That Ubi switch is not technically POE. It's simply robbing some power from a POE connection and then passing it through. I'm guessing you are powering it from the packedge  on the POE in port and then putting the AP Lite on the POE out port?

Actually, I was assuming I could power the US-8 with a traditional power cord and use the PoE port to power the AP Lite. Is my thinking on that incorrect?

Quote

When you write ESG do you mean USG?

Oops. Yes. 

[elee532]

39 minutes ago, elee532 said:

Actually, I was assuming I could power the US-8 with a traditional power cord and use the PoE port to power the AP Lite. Is my thinking on that incorrect?

Answering my own question. Per the user manual:

”Enabling PoE output requires 24W input power via PoE In or DC input.” 

[elee532]

9 hours ago, zaphod said:

If you have a server that is own 24x7 then IMHO you don't need the CloudKey.  I have the Ubiquiti controller software running in a container on my unRAID NAS - I used to have it running on Windows and it works fine there as well while the PC is running.

Doh. I just realized that I do have a Windows 10 PC running 24x7 to run the Roon Core app. I could run the Unifi management app on this PC and a save myself the cost of the Cloud Key. Cool!

[elee532]

Anyone know if there is a difference between this:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B015PR20GY/ref=od_aui_slice_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

and this:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B016K4GQVG/ref=od_aui_slice_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Why the $17 price difference for what appears to be the same product?

[LollerAgent]

The more expensive one looks like the older model which only supports 24V passive PoE (not 802.3af) - but the descriptions are indeed confusing.  I would take a look at Newegg:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=0ED-0005-000V6

You are looking for UAP-AC-LITE.  Just make sure you aren't buying the older model which only supports 24V passive PoE (it would have to be 1+ year old, and I don't imagine many people have them in stock any longer).

 

[Pounce]

3 hours ago, elee532 said:

Answering my own question. Per the user manual:

”Enabling PoE output requires 24W input power via PoE In or DC input.” 

If you connect to the POE in with  802.3at you get 802.at on the out port. If you power it with the wall wart you get 48v passive power on the out port.

[elee532]

45 minutes ago, Pounce said:

If you connect to the POE in with  802.3at you get 802.at on the out port. If you power it with the wall wart you get 48v passive power on the out port.

Now I’m lost.

Will 48v passive power the access point?

Is there a “PoE for beginners” description somewhere?

[Pounce]

I believe the Lite wants 24v .5amp. I do know know if running on the switch with the wall wart will be a problem or not. If you bought a lite that comes with the POE injector just use that rather than using the POE port.

[LollerAgent]

Actually - the Lite has been updated (last year) to support 802.3af.  Any switch that supports 802.3af will power any new-ish UAP-AC-LITE.

[Pounce]

11 minutes ago, LollerAgent said:

Actually - the Lite has been updated (last year) to support 802.3af.  Any switch that supports 802.3af will power any new-ish UAP-AC-LITE.

Correct. In the case of the swtch mentioned it is not going to provide 802.3af with the wall wart. It is just going to provide passive 48v. The lite can support passive 24v.

[elee532]

6 hours ago, Pounce said:

Correct. In the case of the swtch mentioned it is not going to provide 802.3af with the wall wart. It is just going to provide passive 48v. The lite can support passive 24v.

I'm definitely not an electrician. But, since 48v is more than 24v, shouldn't that mean the wall wart will provide more than enough power for the UAP-AC-LITE? Or, is the problem that it would somehow be "over-powered?" 

[Cyknight]

28 minutes ago, elee532 said:

I'm definitely not an electrician. But, since 48v is more than 24v, shouldn't that mean the wall wart will provide more than enough power for the UAP-AC-LITE? Or, is the problem that it would somehow be "over-powered?" 

NO!!!!

 

You cannot supply more voltage than a devices specced range! You WILL fry the device.

[Pounce]

Just power the Lite with the injector you get in the box.

[88Tiger88]

On 6/26/2018 at 5:55 PM, elee532 said:

Thanks for the suggestion! I’m curious, is there a reason that you would recommend Ubiquiti over Pakedge?

I think Ubiquit does not support multi-cast which could cause some issues for your C4 depends on device and setup configuration you have. 

[Pounce]

24 minutes ago, 88Tiger88 said:

I think Ubiquit does not support multi-cast which could cause some issues for your C4 depends on device and setup configuration you have. 

Not multi-cast. PIM Multi-cast.

[elee532]

I’m confused by the last two posts RE: multi-cast. Can you say more? Is multi-cast something different than PIM Multi-cast? And, can you clarify... does Ubiquiti support it?

[Cyknight]

57 minutes ago, elee532 said:

I’m confused by the last two posts RE: multi-cast. Can you say more? Is multi-cast something different than PIM Multi-cast? And, can you clarify... does Ubiquiti support it?

There is more than one type of multi-cast. Ubiquity does NOT support PIM multicast, which Control4 has stated is a requirement in some circumstances, and the reason Ubiquity is currently on the do not use list (after numerous techsupport calls on them).

 

I will mention again, that the C4 'red' list is not the be-all end-all of it, but keep in mind that IF there are any connection issues, and it comes down to networking, techsupport WILL state that a change in networking is required.

[prabeau]

On 6/28/2018 at 5:07 PM, Pounce said:

Just power the Lite with the injector you get in the box.

For sure

[Pounce]

11 hours ago, Cyknight said:

There is more than one type of multi-cast. Ubiquity does NOT support PIM multicast, which Control4 has stated is a requirement in some circumstances, and the reason Ubiquity is currently on the do not use list (after numerous techsupport calls on them).

 

I will mention again, that the C4 'red' list is not the be-all end-all of it, but keep in mind that IF there are any connection issues, and it comes down to networking, techsupport WILL state that a change in networking is required.

It's definitely important to understand the risk. I personally don't think there is a risk when there is flat network as I don't think PIM is needed in this case, but I'd love to one day have this clarified by control4. 

In a nutshell I don't think the OP will need PIM so I don't think there is a risk to having Ubiquiti gear. Again, I could be wrong, but all signs point to...

[elee532]

Thanks everyone for the clarification re: multicast and PIM. Very helpful. One additional question... Is PIM something that needs to be par of ALL the network devices? Router? Switch? Access Points? 

For example, would a Ubiquiti router and access point with a Pakedge switch be any better?

Thanks!

[maskas]

On 6/27/2018 at 8:59 AM, mujtaba.khokhar said:

I use unifi for all my jobs and it’s great once you know how to properly set it up, ive never had any complaints from customers and not had a single call back, many of my sites haven’t had access points or routers rebooted for over 6 months (proof attached)

I usually use a raspberry pi for the cloud controller, and also install ssh and vnc and VPN server on there too if I ever need access to the site. 

For router I usually use MikroTik, and switches usually a unifi switch with poe just incase it’s ever needed. 

I have however used the USG PRO and the edge router lite on a few occasions and they are both great routers, the added benefit of the USG is that you’ll see it in unifi and be able to manage it from there with the edge grear there is UNMS but it’s beta at the moment and not cross platform compatiable 

Access Points - unifi AC pros do me well.

one tip, when you have your access points setup, make sure you do an RSSI scan per AP to get an idea of what channel you need to be on, manually set your transmit power and channel do not leave them on auto. 

The unifi app is also a god send 

Hope this helps you. 

Muj 

@mujtaba.khokhar I use a very similar setup at my home currently, i.e. Mikrotik for routing and UBNT for APs. I'm very happy with the performance but there is no c4 at the moment. Planning on installing a decent sized c4 set up with panelized lighting and audio matrix. I would like to use similar networking gear to what I have currently but am confused with UBNT being on the Black List from c4. What's your take on that? Also have you ever used Mikrotik switches? Have never used the switches myself but I am extremely happy with the router.