pshrop Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 I’m itching to upgrade my current setup with a 4K matrix switch, but worried I won’t benefit much from it. Is there something I’m missing or is it just a waste of money? I have 3 TVs on C4 (2 are 4K) and one 4K TV not on C4. Each TV has its own DirecTV box and there’s a sprinkling of DVD players and Apple TVs here and there. I understand the obvious benefit of distributed video (eliminating duplicative sources) and it will let me bring the 4th TV on, but will it prevent me from distributing 4K content anywhere because of the one TV that’s not 4K (lowest common denominator)? I’ve been eyeing the LU642D so I can also play TV audio in a couple zones that rely on a TV from the adjoining room (think open floor plan). Also, I have 3 receivers that distribute to the 3 C4 TVs and also Power 5 audio zones (2 are obviously zone 2s). The house is wired for 4 more rooms of speakers, but I haven’t installed them yet. If/when I do, do I need a matrix amp? Or can I get away with using the video matrix into a non-matrix amp? I know I will still need 1-2 receivers for surround in certain rooms, so thinking 8x8. Thanks for the assistance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lippavisual Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 With standard canned matrix switchers, they will use the lowest common resolution between all TVs. If you have 3 4K TVs and 1 1080p tv, the best you’ll get is 1080. The leaf switchers have source locking to deliver 4K where it’s needed, but I find that to be a half baked solution. Since you’re looking for new, I’d go with an Ethernet based video matrix. There you can mix and match TVs and sources, etc. And it’s the latest tech in video distribution so should last a long time coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Home Theater Advisors Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 You can also get a scaler to go behind the 1080p tv to ‘trick’ the matrix into thinking all tvs are 4K. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pshrop Posted September 23, 2018 Author Share Posted September 23, 2018 I feel like I’ve seen some conflicting commentary on here on IP video distribution and am a little hesitant to take on a new technology that my local guy doesn’t support. My understanding is that the benefit is primarily scalability, but there could be some challenges with playing TV sound in a room contiguous to where the TV is (we watch our LR TV from our kitchen and use kitchen ceiling speakers as a unique zone to play TV sound)? I believe this is easily resolved with the down sampling matrix? I’m still a little confused by the responses above and the LU642D. Will it know which TVs are/aren’t 4K and only send 4K signals to the 4K TVs? Will DirecTV recognize whether the TV supports 4K, which is a requirement for the box to send 4K? Maybe DTV only looks to the matrix to answer the support question? What happens if I try to send a 4K signal to the HD TV? I could dedicate a box to the HD TV, but that takes away some of the benefit I’m seeking from the matrix. Yes, I understand this could be resolved by replacing the HD TV. Also, any thoughts on whether I need an audio matrix or if I can get by with the audio capabilities of the Leaf video matrix and use a non-matrix amp to power speakers? I’m thinking the video matrix will dictate what sound is sent to a room and whatever that sound may be will always be running thru the video matrix. So passive amp is okay? Sorry for the seemingly ignorant questions. Thanks again for the help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chopedogg88 Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 You would still need an audio matrix if you intend to play music through those speakers as well. The LU only matrixes the video sources. Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pshrop Posted September 23, 2018 Author Share Posted September 23, 2018 3 hours ago, chopedogg88 said: You would still need an audio matrix if you intend to play music through those speakers as well. The LU only matrixes the video sources. Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk Are you sure? This came from the LU642D spec sheet: The integrated audio matrix combines audio extracted from the six HDMI sources with eight independent coaxial digital inputs to create a 14 source × 8 zone audio solution, with variable volume, bass & treble controls and audio delay for lip sync correction. Eight total audio zones can be served when AV receivers are connected to the local HDMI outputs. May not be a big deal b/c the only audio sources we use that aren’t derived from video are the integrated music services within C4, which I assume will come from the Ethernet connection and pass thru the LU642D? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 4 hours ago, pshrop said: May not be a big deal b/c the only audio sources we use that aren’t derived from video are the integrated music services within C4, which I assume will come from the Ethernet connection and pass thru the LU642D? You assume wrong, Audio would have to be fed from a controller's audio outputs. That said, if you have an EA5 for example you could feed it's two digital coax feeds into the LU and use those. And of course any other controllers in your system that have digi coax out (EA3, HC800) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pshrop Posted September 24, 2018 Author Share Posted September 24, 2018 2 hours ago, Cyknight said: You assume wrong, Audio would have to be fed from a controller's audio outputs. That said, if you have an EA5 for example you could feed it's two digital coax feeds into the LU and use those. And of course any other controllers in your system that have digi coax out (EA3, HC800) Good to know, although I think I can run digital out from my EA-3 into an audio in on the LU? It looks to me like the LU is also an audio matrix with only coax ins? If so, think I’m still good? Only challenge would be number of controller music instances = number of coax outs on controller(s). If I’m right, I just need to understand how the LU works with a mix of 4K and 1080 TVs and confirm DTV genies can verify 4K compatibility (where in existence). Thanks Cyknight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chopedogg88 Posted September 24, 2018 Share Posted September 24, 2018 10 hours ago, pshrop said: Are you sure? This came from the LU642D spec sheet: The integrated audio matrix combines audio extracted from the six HDMI sources with eight independent coaxial digital inputs to create a 14 source × 8 zone audio solution, with variable volume, bass & treble controls and audio delay for lip sync correction. Eight total audio zones can be served when AV receivers are connected to the local HDMI outputs. May not be a big deal b/c the only audio sources we use that aren’t derived from video are the integrated music services within C4, which I assume will come from the Ethernet connection and pass thru the LU642D? Sorry about that, I stand corrected. Forgot about the digital coax inputs. I haven't used them before in that fashion...can you use both the digital coax input and the same hdmi input number at the same time? or is it one or the other? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecodeman Posted September 24, 2018 Share Posted September 24, 2018 9 hours ago, chopedogg88 said: Sorry about that, I stand corrected. Forgot about the digital coax inputs. I haven't used them before in that fashion...can you use both the digital coax input and the same hdmi input number at the same time? or is it one or the other? You can use them at the same time. Common use example would be HDMI coming from Directv into hdmi input 1 and digital coax from an EA controller into digital coax input 1. The audio input on the digital coax is only routed to the analog audio out on the leaf, it's not getting mixed in with the hdmi video or sent down the balun as digital coax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pshrop Posted September 24, 2018 Author Share Posted September 24, 2018 46 minutes ago, thecodeman said: You can use them at the same time. Common use example would be HDMI coming from Directv into hdmi input 1 and digital coax from an EA controller into digital coax input 1. The audio input on the digital coax is only routed to the analog audio out on the leaf, it's not getting mixed in with the hdmi video or sent down the balun as digital coax. Agree with this, but to clarify, you can send coax audio out over HDMI/balun in stereo as audio only (screen stays dark). Would be great if there was a way to send separate audio and video feeds simultaneously to the same room. There have been times where it would be great to have a game on in the background with music playing Anyone have an LU hooked up to DirecTV with both 1080 and 4K TVs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted September 24, 2018 Share Posted September 24, 2018 46 minutes ago, thecodeman said: You can use them at the same time. Common use example would be HDMI coming from Directv into hdmi input 1 and digital coax from an EA controller into digital coax input 1. The audio input on the digital coax is only routed to the analog audio out on the leaf, it's not getting mixed in with the hdmi video or sent down the balun as digital coax. Not quite, or I understand you wrong. You CAN send a digital coax input to any HDMI output and use it as an audio path. For example feed a digital coax input from a controller to a receiver connected to an HDMI output. It doesn't 'mix' as you say it, ie you cant send an HDMI video source down an output and use a coax in to listen to a music source over the SAME output at the same time. The HDMI and coax inputs are switched completely separately however, so coax input 1 is not in any way tied to hdmi input 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pshrop Posted September 24, 2018 Author Share Posted September 24, 2018 14 minutes ago, Cyknight said: Not quite, or I understand you wrong. You CAN send a digital coax input to any HDMI output and use it as an audio path. For example feed a digital coax input from a controller to a receiver connected to an HDMI output. It doesn't 'mix' as you say it, ie you cant send an HDMI video source down an output and use a coax in to listen to a music source over the SAME output at the same time. The HDMI and coax inputs are switched completely separately however, so coax input 1 is not in any way tied to hdmi input 1 My understanding too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pshrop Posted October 4, 2018 Author Share Posted October 4, 2018 On 9/24/2018 at 8:46 AM, pshrop said: Anyone have an LU hooked up to DirecTV with both 1080 and 4K TVs? Special thanks to @livitup who discovered that hooking up a 1080 TV with other 4K TVs to a 4K matrix (LU) scales the feed down to 1080 for all TVs. The video feed quality is not driven by what TVs are on at the time, it’s driven by what is hooked up to the matrix. To maintain 4K out of the matrix you would have to section off the 1080 TV via an EDID group. I understand this would isolate sources that could only be used with the 1080 TV. Appreciate the help @livitup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 2 hours ago, pshrop said: Special thanks to @livitup who discovered that hooking up a 1080 TV with other 4K TVs to a 4K matrix (LU) scales the feed down to 1080 for all TVs. The video feed quality is not driven by what TVs are on at the time, it’s driven by what is hooked up to the matrix. To maintain 4K out of the matrix you would have to section off the 1080 TV via an EDID group. I understand this would isolate sources that could only be used with the 1080 TV. Appreciate the help @livitup It's a bit more complex than that actually. It IS possible (though not all sources play nice with this) to have a source switch between 1080p and 4K (provided it's able to do auto resolution) and/or HDR. The group EDID settings are fairly new, and this was already possible previously using zone-locking, but the use of that I think proved a bit...challenging... to many so C4 added an easier to use method to the firmware. Oh and it's also the opposite - you would section off the 4K TVs as a group, but that's semantics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Home Theater Advisors Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 Or you can get a scaler that will trick the matrix into seeing the 1080p tv as a 4K display so the matrix outputs 4K. The scaler will then take the 4K signal it gets and scale it down to 1080p for the tv to display it. His is the best way to handle this situation, aside from getting a new tv. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pshrop Posted October 4, 2018 Author Share Posted October 4, 2018 1 minute ago, Home Theater Advisors said: Or you can get a scaler that will trick the matrix into seeing the 1080p tv as a 4K display so the matrix outputs 4K. The scaler will then take the 4K signal it gets and scale it down to 1080p for the tv to display it. His is the best way to handle this situation, aside from getting a new tv. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk That was my thinking too, have been looking into it this morning. Do some work better than others? Is it safe to assume the matrix can't look thru the scaler to the TV? Will this add a level of lag to the system? My 1080 TV is a room over from a 4K and I'd like them to be in sync if possible (significant factor in purchasing a matrix). I like the $99 price tag on https://www.hdtvsupply.com/4k-down-converter.html over the $399 price tag on https://www.avproedge.com/4k-updown-scaler.html, which I've seen recommended elsewhere on this forum. At $399, seems like replacing the TV would make more sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Home Theater Advisors Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 I really can’t answer the question about the $99 part, except what could it hurt to try other than time. As a professional installers I wouldn’t use it because I only use tried and trusted equipment. But if you are DIYing this then it is just your time wasted if it doesn’t work. As for staying in sync, I believe they do. We haven’t really done a scaler on a tv where it is in ear shot of others, that i can think of. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecodeman Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 Or just don't use the LU switches if you need scaling or other features they don't offer. AVPro Edge matrix switches like the AC-MX888-AUHD-GEN2 have the ability for you to set passthrough for 4K60 444 or to turn on a scaler for that output to downscale to 1080p. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAv Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 Hi all. Has anybody used a Triax 4x4 4k matrix, model number HMX 441 4K with a Control 4 ea5. And does it work effectively?. thanks in advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.