Watch Issue

[Time2Jet]

I believe Netflix requires 4k 60 perhaps that's the problem.

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So my mind went there too, but then why just all of the sudden? I think I added Roku’s in July and they’ve always worked extremely well.

Once I get to the bottom of this, I’m going to look into an actual matrix. It could serve both to distribute audio and video, since I was about to invest in an audio matrix.

I can’t even troubleshoot the Denon (without standing at the rack with its IR remote), because the Denon app doesn’t like the iOS update and crashes everytine I launch its OSD.


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[msgreenf]

i would look at your roku video settings and see if its set to auto - if it is i would set it the video settings of the denon and see if that helps.  IT could just be having trouble negotiating.  Roku OS 9.2 just came out about 2 weeks ago and that could have changed things.

[lippavisual]

Don't use Auto-anything on the Roku or some apps will have issues.  This includes both audio and video settings.

[Time2Jet]

1 minute ago, lippavisual said:

Don't use Auto-anything on the Roku or some apps will have issues.  This includes both audio and video settings.

According to the Roku forums, I guess that the latest update caused issues with some boxes, but not all (even of the same model/version).  I feel that Mitch was correct and this could have been the root cause.  Timing is right.

Do you have a recommended setting versus "auto"?  This is so strange that it only affected one of my Roku's they are set up identically.  I remember a while back reading somewhere that the Zone 2 output of the latest X series Denon's may only pass 1080p.  I cannot get anyone, including Denon to confirm that.  But that too could be why. 

In addition to everything else, I am replacing all HDMI cables, any recommendations.  I like Blue Jean, have an issue with those?

[lippavisual]

Set your video resolution to whatever your system supports and your audio to whatever your audio system supports.

If running through a new 4K receiver, I'd set it to 4K60 and DD+.  But since you mention using zone2 HDMI, you may want to consider setting to 1080 so both rooms can use it.

[Time2Jet]

Just now, lippavisual said:

Set your video resolution to whatever your system supports and your audio to whatever your audio system supports.

If running through a new 4K receiver, I'd set it to 4K60 and DD+.  But since you mention using zone2 HDMI, you may want to consider setting to 1080 so both rooms can use it.

Here's a good one for you... I was researching this issue and Denon's technical says to use the HDMI input closest to the HDMI output?  In this case, the LR (Monitor 1) definitely is closer to "game" input versus the DVD input is further away from the Zone 2 output.  The LR works fine with the Roku, same cables, same balun, same everything.  How crazy it that... have to use the inputs/outputs physically closer on the Denon.

[lippavisual]

Never heard of such a thing for AVR’s.

If it’s working, that’s great. 

[Time2Jet]

It’s “working”. I tread lightly.

Roku tech explained that the 9.2 update for whatever reason didn’t fully implement on each Roku device, but would. Some device chips took the update and showed updated, but the update was slow to actually complete. For other identical devices, it was immediate. A reset won’t help this.

So, I assume whatever part of that update effected Netflix or how Netflix works, was slow to “take”.


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[msgreenf]

33 minutes ago, time2jet said:

So, I assume whatever part of that update effected Netflix or how Netflix works, was slow to “take”.

sounds like a crock - lol.  Sounds like a bad update and they are working on a newer one

[Time2Jet]

Well, it’s back at it again.

Here’s what I learned coming into last night.

It’s likely not the balun (as I replicated the issue locally).

It’s likely not the source devices (as it has effected Roku, TiVo and BluRay... even though they went down separately.

It quite possibly could be limited to Zone 2 (but it’s so tricky and flakey that I haven’t 100% ruled out the main zone).

So, that brings it to Cables or the Denon.

If it ends up being the Denon X8500, that’ll be a nightmare to have to disconnect, box up, send out, wait and reconnect. It knocks the two main zones out for 2-3 weeks? Holidays coming and guests over. My busiest season at work... just all around frustrating.

I have ordered all new certified Blue Jeans cables for everything in the project. Although, all of the cables now are certified and respected brands, I’m going to just have them all of the same. Something about 2-3 brands or series is bothering me.

I gave away my X3500 to one of my techs... which in retrospect could have been used to eliminate having a Zone 2 Video output and would have allowed me 3 additional zones for HEOS. (I’m moving from Sonos). I did grab some additional EA-1’s and another BluRay, so I could have only matrixed sources had I kept it. Regardless, it’s sad that with an MSRP of $4499... the X8500 doesn’t do well what it’s advertised to do.



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[Matt Lowe]

41 minutes ago, time2jet said:

Well, it’s back at it again.

Here’s what I learned coming into last night.

It’s likely not the balun (as I replicated the issue locally).

It’s likely not the source devices (as it has effected Roku, TiVo and BluRay... even though they went down separately.

It quite possibly could be limited to Zone 2 (but it’s so tricky and flakey that I haven’t 100% ruled out the main zone).

So, that brings it to Cables or the Denon.

If it ends up being the Denon X8500, that’ll be a nightmare to have to disconnect, box up, send out, wait and reconnect. It knocks the two main zones out for 2-3 weeks? Holidays coming and guests over. My busiest season at work... just all around frustrating.

I have ordered all new certified Blue Jeans cables for everything in the project. Although, all of the cables now are certified and respected brands, I’m going to just have them all of the same. Something about 2-3 brands or series is bothering me.

I gave away my X3500 to one of my techs... which in retrospect could have been used to eliminate having a Zone 2 Video output and would have allowed me 3 additional zones for HEOS. (I’m moving from Sonos). I did grab some additional EA-1’s and another BluRay, so I could have only matrixed sources had I kept it. Regardless, it’s sad that with an MSRP of $4499... the X8500 doesn’t do well what it’s advertised to do.



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my x8500 has been rock solid video wise. But im likely going to  be boxing it up as well after the holidays two of the channels have a constant buzzing noise. All of the rest are just fine.

 

[Time2Jet]

Thank you everyone. I am so appreciative of the input.

And because I’m looking for every excuse not to have to be without my AVR for 2-4 weeks, I started thinking about all of the suggestions that Ari, Lip, Mitch & Matt offered, I started having all of these racing thoughts...

It’s working right now (X-Fingers). The last thing I did was a 10 minute AVR reset. There is now definitely a difference in the switching speed and speed to load apps etc. (it’s not as fast and each time I have to hold my breath). When I first posted this issue I was unaware of the Roku update. As I troubleshot, I reached out to Roku and was told that the update was not without problems. (I have two Ultras as inputs and 1 seemed fine). I was told all Roku chips didn’t take the update the same, even identical models. Even though the one with issues was saying it was updated, it was not and was “stuck”. Eventually, it did catch up (3-4 days later). But even still, once updated, other owners are complaining that Apps are now slower to load, etc. I agree.

Next: (I also have 2 TiVo Bolts as sources), Unfortunately, TiVo too had a major software update around the same time. (That’s a whole thing itself... and I hate it and am researching alternatives after 20 years of supporting TiVo... anyone else hate the whole idea of having ads pushed to your recordings and having the lamest new TiVo branded steaming service (TiVo+)? Regardless of how I feel about the actual TiVo update, it too has come with known issues, many of them, but definitely one involving HDMI handshake issues.

So all of that taken into account, I feel in the end this whole ordeal may be related to those two things. But, sadly I still don’t know for 100% sure if that’s the whole issue and whether it will act up again... so I hold my breath trying to avoid sending the X8500 in for service. I documented it with Denon in case it ends up failing again after warranty. They asked me to send it in now. I don’t want to deal with that right now during the holidays.

As I mentioned in an earlier post I do understand that matrixing via an AVR isn’t best practice, but at the flagship X8500 price point, you’d think you could expect more.


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[Time2Jet]

And regarding the obscure recommendation of making sure my HDMI inputs were the physically closest to the HDMI output, here’s what was mentioned in the AVS forum by a Denon guru:

Here is some information that relates to this issue, but doesn't provide specific verifiable answers:

The HDMI inputs on the back of the unit are handled by (2) HDMI IC switches, let's call them SW1 and SW2. Among other connections, SW1 and SW2 in turn feed a central HDMI IC . Let's call it Scaler.

Datasheets or other information the IC used for SW1 and SW2, or the IC used for Scaler are not available.

The three HDMI inputs that are closest to the HDMI outputs on the back of the X8500H; Media Player, AUX2 and CD, feed SW1. SW2 handles the other HDMI inputs. The HDMI path from SW1 to Scaler on the digital circuit board is shorter and more isolated than the HDMI path from SW2 to Scaler. It is possible that this shorter path from SW1 to Scaler has better electrical characteristics. The characteristics of the circuit board layout support the concept that using the three HDMI inputs closest to the HDMI outputs is a good idea.

The monitor 1 and monitor 2 outputs are directly connected to Scaler by short paths on the digital circuit board.

Zone 2 HDMI output is directly connected to SW1, not to Scaler. It is unknown if having this different IC drive the Zone 2 output makes a difference. The Media Player, AUX2 and CD HDMI inputs feed SW1 as noted above. This gives them a direct path to the Zone2 HDMI output.

SW2 is connected to SW1. HDMI inputs to SW2 thus go through an extra IC (SW2) and circuit board path to get to SW1 and thus the Zone 2 HDMI output. This could make a difference.

All of the above supports the idea that it is best to connect the most valued HDMI sources to the Media Player, AUX2 and CD HDMI inputs.

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[msgreenf]

37 minutes ago, time2jet said:

Next: (I also have 2 TiVo Bolts as sources), Unfortunately, TiVo too had a major software update around the same time. (That’s a whole thing itself... and I hate it and am researching alternatives after 20 years of supporting TiVo... anyone else hate the whole idea of having ads pushed to your recordings and having the lamest new TiVo branded steaming service (TiVo+)? Regardless of how I feel about the actual TiVo update, it too has come with known issues, many of them, but definitely one involving HDMI handshake issues.

call tivo - they will opt you out of the pre roll adds within 72 hrs.  did it. works great

[Time2Jet]

call tivo - they will opt you out of the pre roll adds within 72 hrs.  did it. works great

Nice Mitch.


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[Time2Jet]

Followup:

It’s confirmed that the latest Roku update is broken. It’s a known issue. Forums are full of people having the same issues I’ve described. It’s a relief and also very very frustrating. Roku CSR is horrid.

The update won’t allow 4KHDR @ 60Hz to pass and is causing quirky HDCP issues. With the latest update (the one that was supposed to fix the broken update) the apps are also much slower to load (by x4).


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[Cyknight]

Odd, I've got no such issues. I'll check softare version once I jhave a moment but we jsut set up a new Roku in the showroom last week and have not noticed any issues (though, we don't use it all that often/regularly)

[Time2Jet]

Odd, I've got no such issues. I'll check softare version once I jhave a moment but we jsut set up a new Roku in the showroom last week and have not noticed any issues (though, we don't use it all that often/regularly)

Originally Cy, Roku tech told me that it was limited to a very small percentage of devices. I assumed they were buying 3rd party chips and perhaps only certain context RD chips were effected, who knows. Check and see if you can pass 60Hz HDR. I’d be curious. I have two Ultras matrixed via the same source and neither can pass 60Hz, but one is clearly faster to laid apps. Prior to the update the both worked beautifully.


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