Axis vs Hikvision vs Amcrest for outdoor POE

[pinkoos]

Hi

One of my Lilin cameras died and am looking to replace it. Just want something simple for outdoor mounting. Must have POE and be compatible with my Security Spy Mac NVR software

My dealer has installed Axis and Hikvision and got it working with Control4, but hasn't installed any Amcrest

Any recommendations?

Thank you

[eggzlot]

I've gotten Dahua cameras from here with great success (both in purchasing and working with Blue Iris in C4) https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1200032

I'd assume it would work with Security Spy as the cameras are ONVIF compliant.

Not sure with what is going on in Asia if their stock on shore has dried up, but they were a great resource for me 2 years ago when I purchased about a dozen cameras

[pinkoos]

Thanks @eggzlot

I'll consider that, but would prefer to buy locally (ie, in the US) - things are not easy to return to China

[eggzlot]

20 minutes ago, pinkoos said:

Thanks @eggzlot

I'll consider that, but would prefer to buy locally (ie, in the US) - things are not easy to return to China

he is on amazon too with prime.  may a buck or two more but will make your return inquiry easier

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Empire+Tech&ref=bl_dp_s_web_0

as mentioned they are Dahua cameras, just without the Dahua logo.  Same firmware, all in English, etc.  12 cameras up and running 15 months with no issues.  Even when you log into the UI it says Dahua, just the cameras themselves are not marked.  But you can match up the specs easily and they are identical.

not forcing you into another option outside of your stated ones.  There were issues with Hikvision a while ago and people were afraid of security.  Axis is a bit expensive though quality if fine.  I have no experience with Amcrest though I know they are popular due to their lower price point.

Dahua Starlight Cameras consistently get very high ratings for their low light ability.  That is why I was suggesting them - and they are ONVIF so should work with security spy (https://bensoftware.com/blog/review-dahua-ipc-hdw4300c-ip-camera/)

[pinkoos]

Ah, got it, thanks for the Amazon link, we'll definitely consider them now

[eggzlot]

no problem

Dahua and Hikvision are both Chinese and the US Gov't aint happy with them, people think they are spying, etc.  So just keep that in mind.  Hik and Dahua make cameras for lots of companies:

https://ipvm.com/reports/hik-oems-dir

https://ipvm.com/reports/dahua-oem

I am not a network expert or security expert, but none of my cameras are directly open to the internet - just to Blue Iris.  So I think security wise I am fine, but if the Chinese are spying on me they'll be bored pretty quickly.

[pinkoos]

2 minutes ago, eggzlot said:

but if the Chinese are spying on me they'll be bored pretty quickly.

LOL

[Amr]

Amcrest are great cams, great quality at very affordable prices, driver from Blackwiredesigns, but note that Amcrest = Dahua Almost

[eggzlot]

if you need Amcrest help ask @msgreenf - he is the Amcrest Wiz

[msgreenf]

2 hours ago, Amr said:

Amcrest are great cams, great quality at very affordable prices, driver from Blackwiredesigns, but note that Amcrest = Dahua Almost

what do you mean almost? they are the same

[Amr]

7 hours ago, msgreenf said:

what do you mean almost? they are the same

Amcrest OEM Dahua

[eggzlot]

7 hours ago, Amr said:

Amcrest OEM Dahua

which was pointed out with this link above https://ipvm.com/reports/dahua-oem

its not just Amcrest, also Lorex, Honeywell, Bosch, Speco, Panasonic and Zuum which are names I see a lot.

[Amr]

Not all OEM’s are the same, some companies takes cams, some change the firmware, some just rebrand.

[THawes]

On 2/24/2020 at 2:18 PM, eggzlot said:

but none of my cameras are directly open to the internet - just to Blue Iris.  So I think security wise I am fine, 

Bear in mind, if these cameras are allowed to get out to the internet (even if you are not doing port forwarding to allow remote connections in to them) they can phone home and be connected to remotely. An adjustment of your NAT or firewall rules for the network you're on, and instantly they are more secure than before.

Again, they might get bored quick watching - but hey, figured I'd throw it out there!

[pinkoos]

SecuritySpy has just updated their blog of recommended IP cameras:

http://bensoftware.com/blog/10-recommended-ip-cameras-2020/

Just wondering if anybody knows if the brands not already mentioned here would be compatible with use in a Control4 system (ie, have the appropriate driver to be able to pull up the camera feeds on touchscreens, C4 app, on screen Navigator, etc.)?

Thanks

[eggzlot]

2 hours ago, pinkoos said:

SecuritySpy has just updated their blog of recommended IP cameras:

http://bensoftware.com/blog/10-recommended-ip-cameras-2020/

Just wondering if anybody knows if the brands not already mentioned here would be compatible with use in a Control4 system (ie, have the appropriate driver to be able to pull up the camera feeds on touchscreens, C4 app, on screen Navigator, etc.)?

Thanks

I could be wrong but I think the generic camera driver will work with anything that is ONVIF compatible.

[LollerAgent]

5 minutes ago, eggzlot said:

I could be wrong but I think the generic camera driver will work with anything that is ONVIF compatible.

It works with any camera that exposes an RTSP stream.

[pinkoos]

Interesting, I may need to pass that info on to my dealer

Thanks

[turls]

I was kind of sold on the Empire Tech stuff that gets mentioned here a lot, but I see reports of poor support.  Anybody with recent experiences?

Also, anybody have any experience with the Starvis / Starlight models that have two cameras built into one housing?  Seems like it would be perfect for the corners.

Like this:

https://www.amazon.com/EmpireTech-IPC-HDBW4231F-E2-M-Starlight-Network-English/dp/B07JZBFTDF

I see some limitations listed that could be deal killers.

 

[eggzlot]

42 minutes ago, turls said:

I was kind of sold on the Empire Tech stuff that gets mentioned here a lot, but I see reports of poor support.  Anybody with recent experiences?

Also, anybody have any experience with the Starvis / Starlight models that have two cameras built into one housing?  Seems like it would be perfect for the corners.

Like this:

https://www.amazon.com/EmpireTech-IPC-HDBW4231F-E2-M-Starlight-Network-English/dp/B07JZBFTDF

I see some limitations listed that could be deal killers.

 

I purchased from empire tech about 18 months ago.  Totally fine transaction 

[zaphod]

I believe that the Empire Tech may be rebranded Dahua cameras.  Here is a review from 2018 on that camera  https://ipcamtalk.com/threads/review-dahua-ipc-hdbw4231f-e2-m-dual-starlight-cam.28860/

It wouldn't surprise me if they are being sold under the Empire Tech brand due to the negative publicity that Dahua has received in recent years.  Both Dahua and Hikvision have been blacklisted by the US.

These cameras have been known to have back doors:

Quote

The National Defense Authorization Act, or NDAA, which outlines the budget and spending for the Defense Department each year, included an amendment for fiscal 2019 that would ensure federal agencies do not purchase Chinese-made surveillance cameras. The amendment singles out Zhejiang Dahua Technology Co. and Hangzhou Hikvision Digital Technology Co., both of which have raised security concerns with the U.S. government and surveillance industry.

Hikvision is 42% controlled by the Chinese government. Dahua, in 2017, was found by cybersecurity company ReFirm Labs to have cameras with covert back doors that allowed unauthorized people to tap into them and send information to China. Dahua said at the time that it fixed the issue and published a public notice about the vulnerability. The U.S. government is considering imposing further restrictions by banning both companies from purchasing American technology, people familiar with the matter said in May. 

And they have been implicated of human rights abuses regarding surveillance of Uighurs in China.

[turls]

13 minutes ago, zaphod said:

I believe that the Empire Tech may be rebranded Dahua cameras.  Here is a review from 2018 on that camera  https://ipcamtalk.com/threads/review-dahua-ipc-hdbw4231f-e2-m-dual-starlight-cam.28860/

It wouldn't surprise me if they are being sold under the Empire Tech brand due to the negative publicity that Dahua has received in recent years.  Both Dahua and Hikvision have been blacklisted by the US.

These cameras have been known to have back doors:

And they have been implicated of human rights abuses regarding surveillance of Uighurs in China.

Good link on the review.  That helps.  I knew about that forum but I haven't completely dug into it yet.

I realize there are concerns with the Chinese cameras.  I'm going to be using them with Blue Iris so hopefully I can minimize any risk.  And I already have a couple Amcrest (rebranded Dahua) and the driver for those, so I will probably rule those out before adding yet another brand to the mix (I already have ancient Panasonics internally and they aren't getting replaced right away).

[eggzlot]

most cameras are rebranded Dahua or Hik.  My Empire Tech cameras have zero logos physically on them, they came in Dahua boxes, the model #s can be found on the Dahua site, and the UI says Dahua everywhere.  Just an FYI.

I also use them in BI so the cameras themselves are not directly exposed to the internet.  Is that proper security, I do not know, but I think so since BI is the go between and I am relying on them for the security aspect.

[jebt2921]

https://www.nellyssecurity.com is also a fantastic source. They rebrand a few different kinds and we’ve got their H-series stuff which are Hikvision oem with NVR. Love the nitecolor (colorvu). Use it all with the new chowmain Hikvision driver although still working through some notification snapshot issues. Still use the hik-connect app most of the time and works great along with the DB2 doorbell from Nelly’s (integrates into C4 as a camera but not door station).


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