Understanding the various Lighting Control to find the most cost effective solution

[Dabbi]

Still learning about the C4 system to find a cost effective solution to decide if I want to invest in C4. This question is all about lighting controls. I currently have legacy switches in the house. Lots of them. Most of them are 2 or 3 gang with a couple 4 gang switches. I see C4 has the following:

1. Adaptive Phase Dimmer

2. Forward Phase Dimmer

3. 0 - 10 V Dimmer

4. Wireless Switch

5. Dual Load Switch

5. Essential Forward Phase Dimmer

6. Essential Forward Phase Switch

For a 1 gang switch/dimmer, which is the most economical option of the above?

For a multi-gang, switch/dimmer, which is the most economical option of the above or can I use a keypad to directly hookup and replace a multi-gang switch?

Thanks

[BY96]

Have you considered Lutron? I am using Lutron Caseta, which is the most cost effective option, and am thrilled with its integration with C4. I am sure C4 switches could do more, but not for the added cost. Pico remotes are awesome and very flexible. If you want more features than Caseta, there are other Lutron options too. 

[RAV]

You have to pick the device to fit the load and application.

Switches are always cheapest, essential most cost effective, but they require a neutral at the switch and that's not always the case, and the older the home the less likely.
The essential forward dimmer is cost effective, but not as compatible as the adaptive, if it isn't compatible, then down to a switch or upto the adaptive.
Keypads can reduce 3 ways switching needs, and inclusdes an adaptive, so they are very flexible and can reduce devices.
And then there's looks, vs cost, and function.

Then there's Lutron Caseta, most cost effective of any reliable integratable option.
But you have trade offs in style, and no keypads.
Sure you can mix, again looks to consider.

[LollerAgent]

1 hour ago, RAV said:

You have to pick the device to fit the load and application.

Switches are always cheapest, essential most cost effective, but they require a neutral at the switch and that's not always the case, and the older the home the less likely.
The essential forward dimmer is cost effective, but not as compatible as the adaptive, if it isn't compatible, then down to a switch or upto the adaptive.
Keypads can reduce 3 ways switching needs, and inclusdes an adaptive, so they are very flexible and can reduce devices.
And then there's looks, vs cost, and function.

Then there's Lutron Caseta, most cost effective of any reliable integratable option.
But you have trade offs in style, and no keypads.
Sure you can mix, again looks to consider.

Don't discount Lutron RA2 Select (and RA3) either.  Very similar to Caseta in terms of functionality, but a completely (and better in my opinion) different style aesthetically.  Also supports more devices on a single system. 

You can always supplement Lutron switches+dimmers with C4 keypads which makes for a very flexible and versatile system in my opinion.

[RAV]

15 minutes ago, LollerAgent said:

Don't discount Lutron RA2 Select (and RA3) either.  Very similar to Caseta in terms of functionality, but a completely (and better in my opinion) different style aesthetically.  Also supports more devices on a single system. 

You can always supplement Lutron switches+dimmers with C4 keypads which makes for a very flexible and versatile system in my opinion.

Not discounting those, but typically moving up past Caseta and you up in the same cost ballpark as Control4 native, or even higher.

[Control4Savant]

Yes…but Ra Select can be self managed or integrated with just about any smart system available giving the client and integrator a long term relationship and ways to move on beyond just that brand. Cost may be a wash depending on the dealer. 

[Jakelay]

From personal experience, I would stick with switches/dimmers that allow engravings if you can swing the cost. That is especially helpful for multi gang setups. We put in some essentials and I regret that since you can’t easily figure out which switches operate which lights - convenience for you and easier for company to ID.

If cost is a factor, you might want to consider doing the work in phases by installing C4 in your most used areas and then adding over time.

For 3/4-way setups, you have to use an auxiliary dimmer or configurable keypad on any ‘switches’ connected to the main 3/4 way. I strongly suggest using a configurable  keypad since you can do much more with it and engrave the buttons. This can be confusing but basically, the configurable keypad is the same thing as a keypad dimmer (all of the button, LED and programming options but it doesn’t control the load like a keypad dimmer).

You also lose the LED lights with the essential line - on/off display or LEDs giving other ‘notifications’ like garage doors open/closed, audio or video sources, etc.

If cost is an absolute issue, going with essentials and adding in a few keypads would be much better than non-C4 light switches so it’s always an upgrade. 
 

I don’t have any experience with third party lighting (i.e. any Lurton setups) but my understanding is that the programming can be more expensive as you have to have someone program the Lutron system and then the C4 system so take that into account.  Also, my understanding is that the keypads can’t access many of the C4 functions that the C4 keypads can - audio/video control, door locks, etc.

Any C4 integration is better than mechanical switches for sure so if budget is really, really the primary goal then you can go with cheaper options.  But based on our install, anywhere I went with essential, mechanical C4, or auxiliary C4 switches I regretted it.  We are moving and I am upgrading all of those to configurable keypads or dimmers/switches that can be engraved.

Just the opinion of a user. Some may disagree.  Also there are dealers and more technical folks that I hope will correct anything I posted that may be incorrect or that can share their counter experience/opinion.

I spent a lot of time planning out how to get what I wanted where I felt I needed it and cutting corners where I didn’t think I did and anywhere I cut corners, I will be upgrading when we move our system to our new home shortly.

I can tell you that we are replacing all of our C4 switches back to mechanical in preparation for our move and even my wife, who saw no need for C4 switches to begin with, is missing all of the functionality having lighting Integrated into the system. The motion sensors, keypads, ability to control multiple lights and a/v from one button press, etc. is certainly a luxury but not having it for a few days - we miss it a LOT. So whatever you end up integrating, it will be an upgrade you will appreciate!

 

[tekki70]

honestly you need to find out what device it will be controlling, how many bulbs, what kind of bulb, how much wattage, whether its dimmable or non dimmable.

other considerations will be, do you need to build a zigbee network or not. if you dont, and dont mind the look of caseta, i would use them. if you need zigbee, go with a mix of essentials dimmers and switches, you can even use c4 in wall outlets to build zigbee.

caseta is cheap however you need to check the list of compatible bulbs, integration is very good

essentials is the same thing, research the load and type of bulb being used

forward phase can be used mostly, however depending on the type of load 

adaptive phase fits most all however you need to check how many bulbs will be used and wattage used

[Andrew luecke]

Also. What country are you in. Different countries have different recommended products

[Bramuchachos]

@Dabbi, great post. I can relate because I am also in the process of learning about C4 in order to understand what is the best way to get the whole house automated.

The house was not wired for home automation and such I have to use Wireless Switch. My dealer has informed me that I can reduce cost by using the Square Dual Load Wireless Switch and Square Dual Load Wireless Adaptive Phase Dimmer.

Are there any disadvantages of going with this option?

Also, under which circumstances is it best to use a Wireless Puck Dimmer to cut cost?