Tv”s Blinking On and Off & Not Turning Fully On & Off

[FLA]

After over 10 years of torture with nobody being able to explain my TV’s blinking on and off especially when different lights in the house are on or off and why quite often when TV’s don’t turn completely on or off (sometimes the tv signal / audio ceiling speakers turn on without the Tv turning on or vice versa).My original installer blaming it on dirty power. Nobody in my neighborhood has dirty power problems. It just dawned on me what the problem probably is: I think it is very likely when my house was pre wired they must have spliced some wires.’some people on this site in the past thought it could have been that the wires are non shielded. Could my theory of spliced wires be the causer the previously mentioned problems ?

[Control4Savant]

6 hours ago, FLA said:

 

After over 10 years of torture with nobody being able to explain my TV’s blinking on and off especially when different lights in the house are on or off and why quite often when TV’s don’t turn completely on or off (sometimes the tv signal / audio ceiling speakers turn on without the Tv turning on or vice versa).My original installer blaming it on dirty power. Nobody in my neighborhood has dirty power problems. It just dawned on me what the problem probably is: I think it is very likely when my house was pre wired they must have spliced some wires.’some people on this site in the past thought it could have been that the wires are non shielded. Could my theory of spliced wires be the causer the previously mentioned problems ?

No, your dealer sounds clueless. 

[RAV]

Do you have a centralized video matrix switching system? All the boxes in the rack and just TVs in the rooms?
When they blink, is there a visual confirmation of the TV power state? Is just the image blanking? (Is the TV powered on and no signal the issue, or is it simpler programing issue of the TV power) Got TV power LEDs?

If it's a matrix it's possible how the wiring was done, shielded or not, distance from high voltage stuff, terminations, etc.
It's also possible it's EDID HDCP communication issues where the brand of products aren't getting along.

[Cyknight]

FLA has posted about this in the distant past as well.

The problem is that it'll be hard to find where the issue may be. My first thought as I mentioned to him in a message as well is to take the worst offending room, use some local sources and a local controller or z2io.

From there, if after a weeks worth of good testing the issues disappear, start working backwards.

Use wiring to put control back.

Use wiring to feed a single source using a temp transmitter/receiver setup (if possible of a similar 'type' as the matrix, ie Video over IP or HDBaseT).

And so on.

Dirty power is often a catch all phrase for a lot of 'unclear' issues. True 'dirty power' it likely isn't (unless there's some weird connection issue with the feed to the house, in which case in 10 years a lot of appliances would have been replaced....). Interference is one of the most common ones put under that 'catch-all' and it's not impossible that that is (part of) the issue. That inference could be caused a lot of ways though.

 

Theoretically (bad) splicing of wires can cause some of the mentioned issues, but realistically -if splicing is doing anything in this setup at all- it's worsening an other underlying issue. If after testing it comes back to wires, it's more likely to be bad quality wires (or really poor runs that run for long stretches along with standard power wires) than spliced wires.

 

It's hard to pinpoint an actual cause not knowing the system in detail, including having a physical overview of the setup and the wires.

If using a decent transmitter/receiver works as per mentioned test options -especially if the current video switch is not one of the two 'standards' for HDMI over CAT- then the only true fix is likely getting a better video switch. Not that the existing one may be the CAUSE of the issues with video, but current equipment is more capable than that of a decade ago.

Local control issues are probably the cheapest to fix with a z2io

 

Realistically, this may be one of those problems that needs a pro on-site.

[FLA]

2 hours ago, RAV said:

Do you have a centralized video matrix switching system? All the boxes in the rack and just TVs in the rooms?
When they blink, is there a visual confirmation of the TV power state? Is just the image blanking? (Is the TV powered on and no signal the issue, or is it simpler programing issue of the TV power) Got TV power LEDs?

If it's a matrix it's possible how the wiring was done, shielded or not, distance from high voltage stuff, terminations, etc.
It's also possible it's EDID HDCP communication issues where the brand of products aren't getting along.

Sorry I should have mentioned that I have a Snap B-300 HDMatrix 8X8 that allows each TV station to run out of the same control closet with Balins and no other equipment at the TV.

[msgreenf]

I would bypass it temporarily as was recommended 

[lippavisual]

5 hours ago, FLA said:

Sorry I should have mentioned that I have a Snap B-300 HDMatrix 8X8 that allows each TV station to run out of the same control closet with Balins and no other equipment at the TV.

Personally thought these were junk.  Could be your issue right there. 

[FLA]

24 minutes ago, lippavisual said:

Personally thought these were junk.  Could be your issue right there. 

Yes I’ve been told that they were far from desirable and I thought that could have something to do with the TV power and /or the video signal for not turning on or off with the remote but I can’t see how the B-300 could cause the video to blink on and off.

[Cyknight]

They primarily aren't known for their..uh..durability. We actually have a handful of them left in the field from take overs (we replaced the ones we did with 500 series).

 

BUT they have one advantage: they have a built in matching HDMI output for each CAT out put: I would suggest taking the offending TV, use the HDMI out instead, and put a well-rated new transmitter/receiver set in between and see of that doesn't get rid of the blinking.

[FLA]

4 hours ago, Cyknight said:

They primarily aren't known for their..uh..durability. We actually have a handful of them left in the field from take overs (we replaced the ones we did with 500 series).

 

BUT they have one advantage: they have a built in matching HDMI output for each CAT out put: I would suggest taking the offending TV, use the HDMI out instead, and put a well-rated new transmitter/receiver set in between and see of that doesn't get rid of the blinking.

Approximately what is the cost of a 500 series and is it about the same size as the 300. Hoping it can fit in the rack. Do you think that the 500 is what I should substitute it with. I assume the performance of the 500 should make a difference? Thx

 

[FLA]

16 hours ago, RAV said:

Do you have a centralized video matrix switching system? All the boxes in the rack and just TVs in the rooms?
When they blink, is there a visual confirmation of the TV power state? Is just the image blanking? (Is the TV powered on and no signal the issue, or is it simpler programing issue of the TV power) Got TV power LEDs?

If it's a matrix it's possible how the wiring was done, shielded or not, distance from high voltage stuff, terminations, etc.
It's also possible it's EDID HDCP communication issues where the brand of products aren't getting along.

Yes centralized. B-300 Matrix

just the image blinking.

when tv’s decide to act up then either tv power or video signal does not turn on or off, I believe a different problem than the blinking of the video. I would rather not put a video box at tv locations and continue to work off central control. That was one of the reasons to use control4.

Besides each tv can receive 3 Satellites,2 Apple tv’s, - 1 Roku and 1 DVD player and giving that up would negate the purpose of the system.

[Control4Savant]

On 11/16/2023 at 8:24 AM, Control4Savant said:

No, your dealer sounds clueless. 

 

9 hours ago, FLA said:

Yes centralized. B-300 Matrix

just the image blinking.

when tv’s decide to act up then either tv power or video signal does not turn on or off, I believe a different problem than the blinking of the video. I would rather not put a video box at tv locations and continue to work off central control. That was one of the reasons to use control4.

Besides each tv can receive 3 Satellites,2 Apple tv’s, - 1 Roku and 1 DVD player and giving that up would negate the purpose of the system.

 This something on site that most experienced techs can sort out through different troubleshooting techniques. Having this problem for 10 years is never acceptable, if it  existed from the original installation not only should that dealer be solving the problem for free or little cost. As a dealer, these are the resources clients rely on us to have or whats the point?  Do you know how your TVs power is controlled?  Tech have been realistically above the old school high voltage issues for a while now, far less issues than the analog and basic digital stuff when you first had the install done. 

[FLA]

3 hours ago, Control4Savant said:

 

 This something on site that most experienced techs can sort out through different troubleshooting techniques. Having this problem for 10 years is never acceptable, if it  existed from the original installation not only should that dealer be solving the problem for free or little cost. As a dealer, these are the resources clients rely on us to have or whats the point?  Do you know how your TVs power is controlled?  Tech have been realistically above the old school high voltage issues for a while now, far less issues than the analog and basic digital stuff when you first had the install done. 

So all of the TV’s power is turned on and off with the C4 remote. They are all plugged into different AC receptacles. All of the receptacles were new when the house was renovated along with new AC wiring and power panels about 10 yrs ago which is when the C4 system was also installed. I know that the dirty power excuse that my dealer used was BS because some of the TV’s are consistently worse than other and a couple that are rarely ever used seem to be fine. Also nobody where I live has ever mentioned dirty power and there are some very upscale homes. We had no problems for 20 yrs. plus prior to the C4 being installed. I have been really loyal to my dealer which is probably a fault of mine at this point. Maybe I should contact another C4 dealer in Orange County Calif. since I also need to replace my surveillance system and should probably replace my B-300 Matrix per some of the other guys on this site.

[Cyknight]

Binary has since moved to the MOIP system which isn't a direct replacement.

Plenty of A/V switches should fit in a 2U setting (you seem to have a slot above available) though.

 

If a replacement makes sense vs just fixing the one bad TV is another matter: depends a lot on if there's more to gain (ie 4K)

[FLA]

4 hours ago, Cyknight said:

Binary has since moved to the MOIP system which isn't a direct replacement.

Plenty of A/V switches should fit in a 2U setting (you seem to have a slot above available) though.

 

If a replacement makes sense vs just fixing the one bad TV is another matter: depends a lot on if there's more to gain (ie 4K)

More than one bad tv. One is definitely wise than the others. Out of & TV’a 1 is unbearable, 1 is so so and 3 are borderline. The other 3 are inconsequential.

I don’t know what a MOIP system means. 

 

[Control4Savant]

7 hours ago, FLA said:

More than one bad tv. One is definitely wise than the others. Out of & TV’a 1 is unbearable, 1 is so so and 3 are borderline. The other 3 are inconsequential.

I don’t know what a MOIP system means. 

 

The most substantial change in video distribution from HDBT is IP. Snap(Control4) - Media Over IP is their branded system. I would suggest JAP(Just Add Power) or AVPro IP but either way you are dealing with more traditional network data packets and not extended signal.  

[Cyknight]

Going a Video over IP solution may indeed 'fix' any wiring issues you have: what I mean with it being less of a direct replacement is that generally speaking, a video over IP setup introduces more of a delay. That is not anything that can't be dealt with perfectly fine in a new setup by choosing the correct accompanying gear, method etc - but going from 'standard' distribution to a video over IP system often means more of a major overhaul of setup.

[FLA]

5 hours ago, Control4Savant said:

The most substantial change in video distribution from HDBT is IP. Snap(Control4) - Media Over IP is their branded system. I would suggest JAP(Just Add Power) or AVPro IP but either way you are dealing with more traditional network data packets and not extended signal.  

Sorry that’s way over my head. Not

looking for a major overhaul. If the system can work the way it is supposed to just looking to replace B-300.

new sensors on burglar alarm

4 new surveillance cameras and new recorder,

replace some TV emitters 

and most likely a couple of new TV’s .

[FLA]

25 minutes ago, Cyknight said:

Going a Video over IP solution may indeed 'fix' any wiring issues you have: what I mean with it being less of a direct replacement is that generally speaking, a video over IP setup introduces more of a delay. That is not anything that can't be dealt with perfectly fine in a new setup by choosing the correct accompanying gear, method etc - but going from 'standard' distribution to a video over IP system often means more of a major overhaul of setup.

If the system can work the way it is supposed to not looking for major overhaul,

just looking to replace B-300.

new sensors on burglar alarm

4 new surveillance cameras and new recorder,

replace some TV emitters 

and most likely a couple of new replacement TV’s .

[lippavisual]

I’d start here.

https://avproedge.com/products/ac-mx-88hdbt

[FLA]

Thx, Looks like it could be $10K, a little rich for my blood. Wish I had the dough for that. 74 yrs old and going into semi retirement. Just want to spend those years with a system that works. It doesn’t have to be that great. Unfortunately those days are over.