Lua Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 1 Looking to find out more about the audio quality and technology types being used on some of the main C4 controllers. 2 HC800, EA3 and Core3 what DAC (digital to Analog Converter) are being used and are they close to an audiophile gear quality. 3 Does it make sense to route the digital signal to a 3rd party higher quality Preamp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 1 OK 2 I do not believe that C4 ever spec'd the chip set anywhere. HC800 was faily basic, EA started doing HiRez audio, Core is much better. Audiophile? Well that's a matter of opinion mostly, but likely not. Note that bitrate on C4 outputs drop fast if you're adding multiple connections (even when not in use) so results will vary based on setup. 3 Again, more opinion then anything. But it all depends too on what you're running it to. If it's a standard multi zone idst amp, then I'd say no. If to a pair of audiophile grade speakers on a matching amp...then yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekohn00 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 1 hour ago, Lua said: 1 Looking to find out more about the audio quality and technology types being used on some of the main C4 controllers. 2 HC800, EA3 and Core3 what DAC (digital to Analog Converter) are being used and are they close to an audiophile gear quality. 3 Does it make sense to route the digital signal to a 3rd party higher quality Preamp? I moved to blusound for our C4 music in place of the E5 we have, it is significantly better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoe Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 What's your source for audio? Pandora? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekohn00 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Just now, Shoe said: What's your source for audio? Pandora? Don't know if you meant me.... but take your pick it's either Sirius, Pandora, Tidal, Roon, and apple via airplay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoe Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 28 minutes ago, ekohn00 said: Don't know if you meant me.... but take your pick it's either Sirius, Pandora, Tidal, Roon, and apple via airplay. No, I meant the OP. They are on an HC800. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lua Posted February 20 Author Share Posted February 20 2 hours ago, Lua said: 1 Looking to find out more about the audio quality and technology types being used on some of the main C4 controllers. 2 HC800, EA3 and Core3 what DAC (digital to Analog Converter) are being used and are they close to an audiophile gear quality. 3 Does it make sense to route the digital signal to a 3rd party higher quality Preamp? Thanks for the good info, I have HC800, EA3, C4 audio matrix switch, C4 amp, Parasound Preamp P6 & Parasound Amp HCA 1000a and Martin Logan 35XTi speakers and Parasound Zamp V3 amp. will try using different setup's and see what works better. (Not sure what goes inside the c4 audio matrix switch that may degrade or tint the audio signal before it gets to the Amp.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 2 hours ago, Lua said: Not sure what goes inside the c4 audio matrix switch that may degrade or tint the audio signal before it gets to the Amp The C4 audio matrices are pretty much passthrough (assuming equalizer is not set, which by default it isn't. It's own equalizer isn't bad though, but again, audiophile opinions use a different frame of mind completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew luecke Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Honestly.. Not sure you'd notice the difference between them. Different products can sound different. But, there isn't enough distortion in any of them in my opinion, for the sound to appear bad (which is the real factor). But at the end of the day, EA might be a tiny bit noticeably better theoretically than HC800.. And more Core might sound better. But none of these products sound bad (at least to my ears) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 15 minutes ago, Andrew luecke said: Honestly.. Not sure you'd notice the difference between them. People really don't ... but they'll convince themselves they do! BY96 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew luecke Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 22 minutes ago, Cyknight said: People really don't ... but they'll convince themselves they do! You can in some cases (ie, noise on the outputs etc). In this case though, the important part is actually the fact one of them is HC800, and there are SO many advantages of upgrading regardless at this time which aren't even related to the audio/ I think the Core also has more sound configuration on its outputs too (but, its been a while since I've used EA). They're just simply a better unit overall (including audio), and if we're talking Drivers, the performance difference is HUGELY noticeable (to the point that our really intensive driver is set to automatically speed up communications on Core/CA10). And thats probably the bigger factor honestly. During inhouse benchmarks, the Core series is MUCH faster. And thats a good reason to update imho regardless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekohn00 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 15 hours ago, Lua said: Thanks for the good info, I have HC800, EA3, C4 audio matrix switch, C4 amp, Parasound Preamp P6 & Parasound Amp HCA 1000a and Martin Logan 35XTi speakers and Parasound Zamp V3 amp. will try using different setup's and see what works better. (Not sure what goes inside the c4 audio matrix switch that may degrade or tint the audio signal before it gets to the Amp.) Your P6 is known to be a pretty good DAC. If you use C4 as the streaming source, you should consider DIGITAL out from C4 to P6 for better sound quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekohn00 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 13 hours ago, Cyknight said: The C4 audio matrices are pretty much passthrough (assuming equalizer is not set, which by default it isn't. It's own equalizer isn't bad though, but again, audiophile opinions use a different frame of mind completely. they are analog devices that can change volume, bass, and treble. that means they are far from a pass-through. I don't have the c4 matrix, but if it has similar characteristics to the 8-zone multi-channel amp, I had a noticeable difference. You can also look at the SNR & THD numbers and see if they are much lower than your existing audio equipment. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying they suck and should not be used.....we use them for our whole home audio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 5 hours ago, ekohn00 said: they are analog devices that can change volume, bass, and treble. that means they are far from a pass-through. I don't have the c4 matrix, but if it has similar characteristics to the 8-zone multi-channel amp, I had a noticeable difference. You can also look at the SNR & THD numbers and see if they are much lower than your existing audio equipment. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying they suck and should not be used.....we use them for our whole home audio. Yes I did mention assuming equalizer is not set, they are pretty much passthrough of the signal... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekohn00 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 58 minutes ago, Cyknight said: Yes I did mention assuming equalizer is not set, they are pretty much passthrough of the signal... My point was simply, it doesn't work that way. even if not used, an equalizer will add noise. they are not pass-through devices. Control4Savant 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lua Posted February 21 Author Share Posted February 21 35 minutes ago, ekohn00 said: My point was simply, it doesn't work that way. even if not used, an equalizer will add noise. they are not pass-through devices. An Oscilloscope could show that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 37 minutes ago, ekohn00 said: My point was simply, it doesn't work that way. even if not used, an equalizer will add noise. they are not pass-through devices. Sigh, sure yes, when setting the matrix to bypass, you or course find there is noticeable noise introduced, whereas to most others it's basically (pretty much as said) a pass-through device Control4Savant 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekohn00 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 1 hour ago, Lua said: An Oscilloscope could show that. not easily and osci measures voltage not sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pounce Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Garbage in garbage out. I think we need to focus on the source. The data sheets do cover some of the dac info. In reality I'm guessing any serious audiophile isn't going to remotely assume these devices meet their needs. Ceiling speakers aren't exactly audiophile. This is for over thinkers. Do some A/B testing with the same track using the dacs you have to see if you notice a difference. I think people have more issues with speaker quality, line distance, acoustics, directionally, stereo vs mono etc than dac quality. My episode architectural speakers are mediocre at best. Still sounds fine for house music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Control4Savant Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 37 minutes ago, Pounce said: Garbage in garbage out. I think we need to focus on the source. The data sheets do cover some of the dac info. In reality I'm guessing any serious audiophile isn't going to remotely assume these devices meet their needs. Ceiling speakers aren't exactly audiophile. This is for over thinkers. Do some A/B testing with the same track using the dacs you have to see if you notice a difference. I think people have more issues with speaker quality, line distance, acoustics, directionally, stereo vs mono etc than dac quality. My episode architectural speakers are mediocre at best. Still sounds fine for house music. Folks dont need to be audiophiles to hear a difference in signal clarity or quality. You dont need to be a videophile to notice the difference in an OLED versus a basic LED. Being able to enjoy either just as well or caring are completely different arguments but people should understand its not rocket science. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pounce Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Exactly why I think just test it for yourself with a/b testing because ultimately just like an audiophile it's all subjective for the person listening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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