Dual Load Switch For North America

[ajd123]

Will Control4 ever offer a dual load switch for North America that will fit a standard single gang box?

They have a square one for UK/China (C4-SDSW240-N)...

[msgreenf]

Doubt it 

[ajd123]

Any new or creative ideas solutions?

I do not want to join any of the circuits together, want them to all operate independently.

I have 4 bathrooms each with two double gang rockers (4 loads total spread across 2 single gang boxes) and would like to automate them.

[C4 User]

What are the 4 loads?

[ajd123]

1. Exhaust Fan

2. LED accent lighting (below cabinetry / inside shower niche)

3. Ceiling Fixture & Vanity Light

4. Shower Pot Lights

[C4 User]

Any way to use smart lighting and combine the loads. Then control with a keypad?

[chopedogg88]

Your options are to expand the box to be a 4 gang, or add 2 switches to the wall on the other side, if you are lucky enough to have the other side be somewhere hidden (closet or something). Or fish wires to a nearby cabinet and put some switches in that. 

[ajd123]

3 minutes ago, chopedogg88 said:

Your options are to expand the box to be a 4 gang, or add 2 switches to the wall on the other side, if you are lucky enough to have the other side be somewhere hidden (closet or something). Or fish wires to a nearby cabinet and put some switches in that. 

If I had space for a 4 gang, we would have done this during construction.

Outlets are on exterior walls.

[SpencerT]

You could put a Shelly on each of the loads (or behind the switches if there's enough room). 

[Time2Jet]

Per @chopedogg88 - you could try to do the “panelized” hack and hide 2 of the the load controls (easiest to reroute to a closet, etc) for these circuits and install 2 KD’s at the local gangs? This way you control 2 loads locally and the other two programmatically over zigbee.

As @SpencerT beat me to it! Easier would be to grab two Shelly minis and fit them in the 2 gang box behind a KD. Then add the Shelly driver, two KD120277’s and a few bindings (or lines of programming)and boom!


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[RAV]

Are there transformers for the accent lights, hot through and put a Shelly there.
Same for the exhaust fan, hot through and Shelly at the fan.
2 KD in the box.

[Shoe]

Or just two Shelly 2PM and maybe a one or two RC scrubbers to protect with the fan and transformer loads. Depends on total load if you can use the Shelly. This leaves the current switches and gives you automation. Maybe less than $75 plus the Shelly driver. A Shelly 2PM can switch two loads.

[msgreenf]

Yup - please note driver is paid @ajd123

[ajd123]

On 3/4/2024 at 9:29 AM, RAV said:

Are there transformers for the accent lights, hot through and put a Shelly there.
Same for the exhaust fan, hot through and Shelly at the fan.
2 KD in the box.

Yes there are transformers.

On 3/4/2024 at 10:38 AM, msgreenf said:

Yup - please note driver is paid @ajd123

Hey Mitch, what is the cost of the driver?  Will one driver cover multiple Shelley's or does each Shelley require its own paid driver?

 

On 3/4/2024 at 9:29 AM, RAV said:

Are there transformers for the accent lights, hot through and put a Shelly there.
Same for the exhaust fan, hot through and Shelly at the fan.
2 KD in the box.

When using Shelley's will the switch always override?  

1) If a Shelley is installed on a light load but the light switch is off, will the Shelley still be able to turn the light on and off? 

2) If the Shelley is installed on a light load and the SHELLEY is off, will the user be able to turn the light off and on via the wall switch?

3) If the Shelley installed HOT at the transformer and inside the fan: same questions as above.

 

[msgreenf]

$75 usd

[msgreenf]

Per project. Not device 

[Shoe]

2 hours ago, ajd123 said:

When using Shelley's will the switch always override?  

1) If a Shelley is installed on a light load but the light switch is off, will the Shelley still be able to turn the light on and off? 

2) If the Shelley is installed on a light load and the SHELLEY is off, will the user be able to turn the light off and on via the wall switch?

3) If the Shelley installed HOT at the transformer and inside the fan: same questions as above.

You can find these kinds of things on the Shelly website and internet.

Yes, the majority of the purpose of a Shelly relay is to allow you to control with the switch and programmatically. With this switch setup you set them in Edge mode with restore to last setting. So when you change the state of the switch the relay toggles to the other state. If you wire them hot they control the load without a switch present, yes.

[ajd123]

1 hour ago, Shoe said:

You can find these kinds of things on the Shelly website and internet.

Yes, the majority of the purpose of a Shelly relay is to allow you to control with the switch and programmatically. With this switch setup you set them in Edge mode with restore to last setting. So when you change the state of the switch the relay toggles to the other state. If you wire them hot they control the load without a switch present, yes.

If a switch is in the off position (circuit is closed) will the relay (Control4 system) still be able to turn the light on/off?

[Shoe]

13 minutes ago, ajd123 said:

If a switch is in the off position (circuit is closed) will the relay (Control4 system) still be able to turn the light on/off?

When a switch is off its actually in an open state. When the circuit is closed a light will be on.

You may want to read a little on the Shelly website and look at the circuit diagrams. A shelly device is powered by the circuit and not the state of the switch or power through the switch. The switch is wired entirely to the shelly and no longer wired to the circuit or the load. e.g. the shelly is wired to the line from your electrical panel or hot line and the load or your light or fan. The switch is connected to the shelly for control. The shelly does all of the controlling whether its triggered from the switch or communication logic.

 

Do you have an integrator? I'd most certainly have them involved given the questions.

[RAV]

Shelly is a relay (or dimmer) that sits on the WiFi instead of the Zigbee mesh like Control4's devices.
Rather than deal with color and style, the button part is separate, and user provided, and is optional.
The button part has options in setup as to how it will behave. Visit Link: https://www.facebook.com/legacy/notes/2331082316991119/

Typically if you wish to maintain an in room physical type switch, then you use the EDGE option (see link).
This toggles the load each time the switch is flipped, in use it feels like a 3 way switch setup in that up is neither on nor off, but simply the opposite of what the relay is now.
Regardless of whether the light was turned on by Shelly App or Control4 then the next flip of the wall switch wired to the relay will change the light to the opposite state it is in now.
And therefore the Shelly App and Control4 can each still toggle the light regardless of the physical switch or the app used.

 

[ajd123]

16 minutes ago, Shoe said:

When a switch is off its actually in an open state. When the circuit is closed a light will be on.

You may want to read a little on the Shelly website and look at the circuit diagrams. A shelly device is powered by the circuit and not the state of the switch or power through the switch. The switch is wired entirely to the shelly and no longer wired to the circuit or the load. e.g. the shelly is wired to the line from your electrical panel or hot line and the load or your light or fan. The switch is connected to the shelly for control. The shelly does all of the controlling whether its triggered from the switch or communication logic.

 

Do you have an integrator? I'd most certainly have them involved given the questions.

Thanks this makes sense.  Often times I find it is better to ask the question here and get an answer directly from people with experience.

1 minute ago, RAV said:

Shelly is a relay (or dimmer) that sits on the WiFi instead of the Zigbee mesh like Control4's devices.
Rather than deal with color and style, the button part is separate, and user provided, and is optional.
The button part has options in setup as to how it will behave. Visit Link: https://www.facebook.com/legacy/notes/2331082316991119/

Typically if you wish to maintain an in room physical type switch, then you use the EDGE option (see link).
This toggles the load each time the switch is flipped, in use it feels like a 3 way switch setup in that up is neither on nor off, but simply the opposite of what the relay is now.
Regardless of whether the light was turned on by Shelly App or Control4 then the next flip of the wall switch wired to the relay will change the light to the opposite state it is in now.

Thanks RAV, I was actually just typing this "So does the physical wall switch essentially become a toggle?" when your response came in.

"Regardless of whether the light was turned on by Shelly App or Control4 then the next flip of the wall switch wired to the relay will change the light to the opposite state it is in now."  Will Control4 know the state of the light that is being toggled with the physical switch using the Shelley driver?

[Shoe]

18 minutes ago, ajd123 said:

Often times I find it is better to ask the question here and get an answer directly from people with experience.

Yes. At the same time the expectation is that you are not treating the community like your personal source of free information and rather doing your own due diligence and avoid taxing the goodwill of others. Forums work when they are collaborative rather than one way. Get a little give a little.

 

20 minutes ago, ajd123 said:

Will Control4 know the state of the light that is being toggled with the physical switch using the Shelley driver?

Yes, obviously.

[ajd123]

17 hours ago, RAV said:

Shelly is a relay (or dimmer) that sits on the WiFi instead of the Zigbee mesh like Control4's devices.
Rather than deal with color and style, the button part is separate, and user provided, and is optional.
The button part has options in setup as to how it will behave. Visit Link: https://www.facebook.com/legacy/notes/2331082316991119/

Typically if you wish to maintain an in room physical type switch, then you use the EDGE option (see link).
This toggles the load each time the switch is flipped, in use it feels like a 3 way switch setup in that up is neither on nor off, but simply the opposite of what the relay is now.
Regardless of whether the light was turned on by Shelly App or Control4 then the next flip of the wall switch wired to the relay will change the light to the opposite state it is in now.
And therefore the Shelly App and Control4 can each still toggle the light regardless of the physical switch or the app used.

 

Thanks RAV, great link & explanation.

1) Do you think I can fit 2 of the Shelly 2PM's in a two gang box?  Examples show 1 of these used in a two gang box?

18 hours ago, Shoe said:

When a switch is off its actually in an open state. When the circuit is closed a light will be on.

Yes I had it backwards, bit of a brain fart.

[ajd123]

On 3/4/2024 at 9:59 AM, Shoe said:

Or just two Shelly 2PM and maybe a one or two RC scrubbers to protect with the fan and transformer loads. Depends on total load if you can use the Shelly. This leaves the current switches and gives you automation. Maybe less than $75 plus the Shelly driver. A Shelly 2PM can switch two loads.

Did you mean RC Snubber?  

Your suggested configuration seems like a good solution.  My only concern is not having enough space in a two gang box that is already housing wires for 4 different loads.  Will open one up when I have some time and post a picture to get some opinions. 

[ajd123]

On 3/4/2024 at 7:59 AM, Time2Jet said:

As @SpencerT beat me to it! Easier would be to grab two Shelly minis and fit them in the 2 gang box behind a KD. Then add the Shelly driver, two KD120277’s and a few bindings (or lines of programming)and boom!
 

Keypad dimmer (KD) suggestion is good. 

"Then add the Shelly driver, two KD120277’s and a few bindings".  Why would I need two KD's?  Wouldn't one keypad dimmer provide me enough functionality to control all 4 loads?