Crustyloafer

3-4 weeks for us in the UK.

24 minutes ago, tdougray said:

Have you experienced any major problems with Wi-Fi and I take it it’s the “roku premier “ you’d suggest?

or +?

 

Not experienced any major issues with Wi-Fi as long and Wi-Fi and network are solid where it will be located.

Tend to use the Streaming Stick+ a lot as just stick one behind each TV and then add a separate Roku driver and Mini drivers for each one. A much nicer experience than using the built in apps on the TV and with it being a solid IP driver it is fast and responsive too. If going in a rack then the Roku Premiere is a good option too, but I still prefer the Streaming Stick+  as it has it's wifi antenna but into the USB power cable. I then get a micro USB extension cable so the section of cable with the Wi-Fi antenna in it can be extended outside of the rack.

2 minutes ago, tdougray said:

Would you always prefer to use Roku over a TVs mini apps? Looked at going over to it but in the UK it’s over wi-fi only which sort of put me off. 

I totally understand the reluctance to use a Wi-Fi only device. The main benefit is not only the wide range of apps available on the Roku but also the broad support/availability of mini drivers for each app allowing instant and direct access to those apps directly from the home screen.

Most TV brands with IP drivers only support a very small number of mini apps, only the Annex4 driver for LG WebOS TVs offer a wider selection than the 1-2 usually available on the C4 database IP drivers and then, good though it is, that driver costs well in excess of any Roku product.

I'm in the UK and my Roku has both the Amazon Prime and Disney+ apps, I'd be very surprised if not available in Australia.

Perhaps if there are any other Roku users in Australia could they confirm one way or another? 

Like this:

Annex4 driver for the win, far better selection of mini drivers and you can create your own too. 

Which OS are you on?

Default password on OS3.1.0 and earlier is: t0talc0ntr0l4!

If that doesn't work then your dealer has, quite rightly for security purposes, changed the default password.

On OS3.1.1 there is no default password and a random one is generated by the OS so you cannot access the controller except via Composer Pro.

Now that the UK is on full lock-down and I'm stuck at home, if there is anyone on here in need of some remote programming services, an OS update or just general advice on how to achieve something with their Control4 system please get in touch.

My rates are very reasonable, I have been programming Control4 for about 4 years now and have provided remote programming and system updates for a number of clients within the UK and as far afield as Denver, US, Ireland and Australia.

With us all being stuck in our homes, I'm sure this will give end users plenty of opportunity to think up new ideas for integration and automation to make their lives easier and more enjoyable, so please do not hesitate to get in touch if you think I can be of assistance.

Or just buy a Roku and then you can have shortcuts to pretty much any app.

Like this

15 hours ago, BuffaloC4 said:

It doesn’t seem like the triad rackamp 300 has high level outs. I still need to power the LR in that room. 

Your LR speakers would still be powered by the matrix amp that is already driving them. You would wire the high level inputs on the RackAmp 300 in parallel with the LR speakers either from the speaker terminals on the speaker or back at the matrix amp. 
 

When connected via high level inputs, the RackAmp is basically fed the same signal as is going to the LR speakers but as it is such a high impedance input it does not draw any significant amount of power from the matrix amp.

You would then set the crossover and level settings on the RackAmp so the subwoofer starts to kick in where the natural frequency response of the LR speakers starts to roll off. 

24 minutes ago, Don Cohen said:

I haven't come across that term before, but looking it up, yes - exactly!

I was going to use the term 'Bonehead Programming' but your term has much more panache!

I used to use that term in my early days working at PC World when handing "repaired" computer back to clients.

So it was a PEBKAC error then?

The Triad InRoom Mini, Bronze, Bronze SlimSub, Silver, Gold and Platinum subs all use the Triad RackAmps and support this connection method. 

Personally I would look at getting an active subwoofer which supports speaker level inputs in order to reduce the strain on the matrix amp, as it will not have the power delivery capabilities to keep a subwoofer under control properly. 
 

The Triad In-Room passive subwoofers which use the Triad RackAmp300 and RackAmp700DSP have speaker level inputs on those amps and so would work well in this application.  

Almost zero chance, if there is not a button for those services on the original remote control there will almost certainly not be dedicated IR codes for them, especially obscure apps like the ones you listed.

Seriously, I wouldn't waste your time on this at all.

2 hours ago, tdougray said:

FFS can everyone please stop now. 
it’s been exhausted!!! 

The keypad "fallback" behaviour as it is called in a panellised system enables the programmer to configure each button on any keypad to perform one specific function, ie turn on a load or turn it off. Once a specific function has been assigned to a keypad button as fallback behaviour that function cannot be applied to any other buttons on any other keypads.

It is designed as an emergency failover/fallback behaviour so that the primary keypad in each room can retain core functionality even without the main EA-1/2/5 controller being up and running.

An example would be in the Lounge, with let us say has three lighting circuits, main downlight/cans, wall lights and low level night lights. There could be two keypad in this room, once at the entrance to this room and another secondary keypad at the other side. I would typically program the top button on the keypad at the entrance to the room to turn on the main downlights/cans and the bottom button to turn those same lights off. This would be the only fallback behaviour I would add to that keypad. The downlights/cans on and off functions can not be applied to any other keypad buttons as fallback behaviour.

Bottom line is, with the size of property you have and the number of lighting circuits per room (clearly requiring the need for multiple hidden keypad dimmers) a panelized systems the correct / most appropriate solution and what any Control4 installer with even an ounce of system design knowledge would be recommending.

What has happened here, is you have gone a bought a bunch of kit for a bargain price, without any knowledge of lighting system design or appropriateness of the product for the application and are now trying to design the system around the hardware already purchased rather than the other way around.

We are not trying to be dicks about this, but quite frankly you are going about this the wrong way. That said, technically speaking it will probably work the way you and your "dealer" are planning to do it by shoehorning a retrofit lighting control solution into a new build and panelized appropriate scenario.

You came on these forums for advice, that is what you have been offered, if that unfortunately conflicts with how you had it all working in your head and/or how your dealer has suggested it be installed then so be it, but the advice we are offering still stands and is there for you to choose to follow or not.

Panelized lighting offers several key advantages, some of which have already been mentioned:

• Simplifies wiring for the electrician, with all loads going back to a single centralised location, and greatly simplifies wiring termination and testing of the loads.
• Keypads are low voltage and can be wired as a single daisy chain loop/spoke or multiple loops/spokes depending on easiest cabling routes available
• Additional control options available such as the 4-Channel Bus Dry Contact Input Module which allows any existing traditional lighting switches to be used to control the panelized lighting modules. This is particularly useful in high end properties with either traditional lighting switches which need to remain in order to be in keeping with the rest of the decor or where the client just wants a very specific design of switch in the room/s.
• Panelized lighting modules typically handle larger loads per channel than any  integrated keypad dimmer
• Wider combination of load types able to be controlled easily, especially when it comes to motors, pumps, fans etc and 0-10/1-10V lighting control
• Fallback behaviour on keypads allowing an emergency override behaviour to be configured for each keypad button.
• No reliance on ZigBee or any other wireless communication for lighting control

Personally I would tend to use the  Room Control driver, add the stations you want as presets within the Room Control driver and then assign the keypad buttons to recall those presets.

1 hour ago, rf9000 said:

So technically, the majority of the APD dimmers would not be needed because the modules take the place of the APD dimmers, is this correct?  For example, lets say there are 5 loads in the Master bath. The plan before was to have a single KPD located in Master bath for load 1, then in the Master Closet have one APD for load 2, one APD for load 3, one SW for load 4 (bath fan),  one APD for load 5. In the panelized lighting plan, we would still have one KPD located in Master Bath for load 1, and then loads 2-5 would be handled by the module and all the other APDs or SWs are not needed? Also, can the module be programmed to have some of the channels utilize either dimmer or switch? I see its called the dimmer module so wondering if a regular switch can be used with it too.

Not quite, in that scenario with panelized lighting all loads would be handles by the 8 channel panelized module. The only keypads in this room or any other rooms for that matter would be the wired panelized keypads which are wired with Lutron style low voltage cabling. There are no keypads with actual dimmers built into them used in a fully panelized system, or a least not if it has been planned out correctly. These wired keypad are powered from a 48V keypad bus power supply as part of the panelized system.
 

It is also possible to have a hybrid system with a mix of panelized lighting and wired keypads and then wireless keypad dimmers for additional loads that are added later and can only be retrofitted. When installing a fully penalised system we quite often wire in a few wireless keypads (still without dimmers built-in) to help extend  and bolster the ZigBee mesh. These wireless keypads can also be powered from the same 48V keypad bus power supply, but count as 1.5 keypads each towards the total number of keypads/spokes allowed on each keypad wiring run.

2 hours ago, rf9000 said:

What a terrible  response. You HAVE to be a dealer (no offense to the dealers on here that are actually helpful). So tell me, the dimmers and switches that I have that are brand new in the box, are the ones you sell better than these? Like are the special in some way? Man, that response irritates me. Just because someone wants to buy there own equipment, and you can't make money off them for every single device, this is your response? And just because a dealer will work with a client and let them source some of there own equipment, pull wires, etc., this is your response? My dealer is great this way. I actually have a business  with employess and my guys are pulling all the wire based upon what the dealer has laid out. Then we are providing most of the equipment, which is all brand new by the way, and the dealer is installing and programming. I know this would probably not work for you because you couldn't nickel and dime for everything, but its our arrangement and its going to work out well. We have done it several times before.

My question would be, where are you sourcing all this “brand new” equipment other than from another dealer?
 

Is it set to forward or reverse phase dimming?

This entire thread is just a mess in the making. We have:

1) End user supplying their own C4 hardware, so will be used and possibly old and likely to be unsupported on future OS releases as well as having no warranty. 
 

2) A dealer willing to work with said end user supplying their own used kit and advising them against best practices by suggesting multiple keypad dimmers/switches hidden out of sight is the best way to condense control of multiple loads and have just a single keypad visible in the rooms. 
 

3) An end user asking for advice on here about best practices, been given correct best practice advice by most, ie panelised is the best solution with a large number of loads and a new build, and then still choosing to argue against it because they can buy their own cheaper/used keypad dimmers from eBay or similar. 
 

In my mind, both the end user and the dealer have made their bed, now let them sleep in it. Good luck to you both. 

2 hours ago, chopedogg88 said:

 Also many electricians have no idea how to wire a panelized system
 

This.

Depends on if you are talking about a keypad dimmer or wired keypads as part of a centralised system.

With wireless keypad dimmers, any buttons not assigned to control an internal load will not control anything without the director being up and running and the ZigBee mesh they connect to.

With a centralised system and wired keypads, you can assign "fallback" behaviour to any button on any keypad. This fallback behaviour will allow the assigned button to turn on or turn off (not toggle) an individual load connected to a centralised dimmer pack. Once assigned as the fallback behaviour to a button on a keypad, the same function for that load cannot be assigned to any other button as fallback behaviour.