qVAMPIREp Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 We don't use C4 for media management. So... not really hurting for customers. I actually have the other problem at the moment.Why don't you use Control4's media management system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seth_j Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 We use Sonos almost exclusively for music. Very few customers have ever come through wanting video but when they do they get Kscape. I think we have done one Dune(?) system for a client who asked specifically for it.. no idea. I stayed out of it. We use Control4 for control, lighting, etc. Lots of sonos these days though.. lots. I'm not disagreeing with your point.. but I don't think that media management is a priority for most dealers or most customers.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Most of my clients call it this.Yup, well not most, but a good number.Yup, well not most, but a good number... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 We use Sonos almost exclusively for music. Very few customers have ever come through wanting video but when they do they get Kscape. I think we have done one Dune(?) system for a client who asked specifically for it.. no idea. I stayed out of it. We use Control4 for control, lighting, etc. Lots of sonos these days though.. lots. I'm not disagreeing with your point.. but I don't think that media management is a priority for most dealers or most customers.. Funny. I'm getting more and more requests for (video) media solutions lately, particularly storage format, less for audio. This tends to go up and down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdepaola Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I think with current solutions such as MyMovies, EV, and the appropriate player the system generally works. I can tell you my family LOVES having a single place to view all of our movies and be able to easily play them and they absolutely hate having to find a dvd or bluray and then put it into the player. In fact I could almost pull my bluray players out except for in the theater room, every where else they get zero use and I mean zero. I can also tell you that while we could afford a ksacape system neither I nor my wife are ever going to approve that expenditure but maybe that's why we could afford one. Anyway, my point is I feel like from a demographic standpoint I'm smack dab in the middle of the sweet spot for a dealer. The folks I know and associate with in my area and that are in the same demographic also are never going to go for a kscape system. HOWEVER they all want C4 and they all want to be able to select movies the same way I do, they also love all the other aspects but Audio and Video are the big sellers around here. The UI needs work it absolutely looks dated and I feel like the flash interface is holding that development back. "Basic" media management is what should be focused on, I don't need all the features of kscape but I need and want something that works well, quickly, and looks modern and slick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaltrader Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 I think with current solutions such as MyMovies, EV, and the appropriate player the system generally works. I can tell you my family LOVES having a single place to view all of our movies and be able to easily play them and they absolutely hate having to find a dvd or bluray and then put it into the player. In fact I could almost pull my bluray players out except for in the theater room, every where else they get zero use and I mean zero. I can also tell you that while we could afford a ksacape system neither I nor my wife are ever going to approve that expenditure but maybe that's why we could afford one. Anyway, my point is I feel like from a demographic standpoint I'm smack dab in the middle of the sweet spot for a dealer. The folks I know and associate with in my area and that are in the same demographic also are never going to go for a kscape system. HOWEVER they all want C4 and they all want to be able to select movies the same way I do, they also love all the other aspects but Audio and Video are the big sellers around here. The UI needs work it absolutely looks dated and I feel like the flash interface is holding that development back. "Basic" media management is what should be focused on, I don't need all the features of kscape but I need and want something that works well, quickly, and looks modern and slick. Thats spot on how I feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Video and audio have always been the bigger instant impact 'WOW' things for the system. I actually like how the movie selection is right now for the most part - but it could use an update (better TV/Series options, perhaps some system level parental settings, ability to hide genres/PG levels based on time, general clean-up).However, the OTHER part of media management is the importing and/or editing of data - which has grown abysmal as Gracenote seems to have been failing hard in that respect. I suspect C4 is also hesitant to make another jump though. Don't forget that Gracenote is the second one they used, and at the time C4 introduced it considered top-notch (Sony and others also were using it). It isn't realistic to expect C4 to create and maintain their own database at this point.Arguably, for THAT part, it makes more sense for Control4 to engage a third party to supply the data - similar to how the MyMovies option works. But another question here too would be if it will even make sense in the long term to do this sort of media, as streaming becomes more and more mainstream. If you want to add that, you're asking for some BIG resources and/or partnership programs. And always remember that C4 isn't limited to the US - or even close. It would mean multiple partnerships for different areas of the world and/or overcoming lots of government regulations as well as broadcast partnerships.I'm not saying it's impossible as such, but one wonders, if that is indeed the 'way of the future' if it's reasonable to expect C4 to do all this, or if it makes more sense to have 3rd party solutions for it. Possibly natively supported. Make no mistake, I would love to see a revamped media management/interface, for personal use as well as a selling point - and I think it's overdue for some improvements. But the question is also how far they should take it. The request by it's nature is not an easy one - I certainly can't think of a clean-cut answer. But hey, the new upcoming media services proxy (see TuneIn) may change that ball game, though not perhaps in the way generally discussed here. That said, never, EVER, stop requesting what you want - it's the only way to get it, regardless of how likely it is or isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubben Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Video and audio have always been the bigger instant impact 'WOW' things for the system. I actually like how the movie selection is right now for the most part - but it could use an update (better TV/Series options, perhaps some system level parental settings, ability to hide genres/PG levels based on time, general clean-up).Agree. Gracenote isnt working perfect, but out of 10 movies it gets 8 of them right. Ive also tried MyMovies, and it gets 95% acurate. But for the last 5 % I still have to check manualy, and then I might aswell check them all manualy when I rip them. So, I dont mind editing the info by myself to get it the way I like it. But I would realy like a basic update. For me, the ability to add each storage-drive as a mediasource would solve most of my problems. For example, today all drives end up under the Movies-icon. If i had one drive for movies, one for series, one for children and one for special features, I would get four icons corresponding to my drives. And a search-function. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaltrader Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 Video and audio have always been the bigger instant impact 'WOW' things for the system. I actually like how the movie selection is right now for the most part - but it could use an update (better TV/Series options, perhaps some system level parental settings, ability to hide genres/PG levels based on time, general clean-up).However, the OTHER part of media management is the importing and/or editing of data - which has grown abysmal as Gracenote seems to have been failing hard in that respect. I suspect C4 is also hesitant to make another jump though. Don't forget that Gracenote is the second one they used, and at the time C4 introduced it considered top-notch (Sony and others also were using it). It isn't realistic to expect C4 to create and maintain their own database at this point.Arguably, for THAT part, it makes more sense for Control4 to engage a third party to supply the data - similar to how the MyMovies option works. But another question here too would be if it will even make sense in the long term to do this sort of media, as streaming becomes more and more mainstream. If you want to add that, you're asking for some BIG resources and/or partnership programs. And always remember that C4 isn't limited to the US - or even close. It would mean multiple partnerships for different areas of the world and/or overcoming lots of government regulations as well as broadcast partnerships.I'm not saying it's impossible as such, but one wonders, if that is indeed the 'way of the future' if it's reasonable to expect C4 to do all this, or if it makes more sense to have 3rd party solutions for it. Possibly natively supported. Make no mistake, I would love to see a revamped media management/interface, for personal use as well as a selling point - and I think it's overdue for some improvements. But the question is also how far they should take it. The request by it's nature is not an easy one - I certainly can't think of a clean-cut answer. But hey, the new upcoming media services proxy (see TuneIn) may change that ball game, though not perhaps in the way generally discussed here. That said, never, EVER, stop requesting what you want - it's the only way to get it, regardless of how likely it is or isn't. Thanks for being open to hearing some customer feedback. I just feel lately that when customers express concerns about what they would ultimately like to see improved on a UI level, dealers often cut them off as to protect the C4 image. I just think that if C4 were to focus some efforts on improving the filter function as well as the speed and appearance of the media UI it would work wonders. Just imagine if the C4 media experience was similar to that of Sonos or K-Scape. We wouldn't be having this discussion and C4 would be selling a lot more systems. Sonos recently hinted that they want to go public and once public a logical next step to increase revenues would be to add an automation component to their existing installs. C4 needs to looks closely at some of the smaller software media companies out there (XBMC, mymovies etc) and consider a broader partnership if not outright acquisition now that they have stock currency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Thats spot on how I feel.Me too. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 In my opinion they should just get on with it and support a few solutions like XMBC/Plex and MM BUT do it properly. That means set up a media lab at c4 HQ, and monitor for firmware and code changes, etc etc on behalf of end users and provide timely updates. If they bought XBMC / Plex or MM, they'd probably screw them up and kill 'em off. They need to have a dedicated media development team and a lab, and get into the heads of their customers: the end users. Find out what works, what they like about each option and why.... Then sit back and watch and wait to see which one takes off, works and becomes most popular and dominant. What makes XBMC so powerful is the tens of thousands of unpaid boffins and enthusiasts all writing code and Intergrated plugins for free. Hate this sort of approach to platform development as much as you like (there would be no dealer or C4 revenue to speak of)....that is not the point. The point is, you ignore this, because supporting it properly gets more bums on seats using all the other great Control4 features. And it gets eyeballs back within the Control4 GUI and Nav. So if I could get Control4 to listen, my approach would be to formalise a Control4 XBMC driver and something like what Alan Chow hinted on with his driver a few weeks back: but postponed because of lack of funds and fear of IP theft. you all did see that right? Full XBMC movie menu integration within the NAv. But Control 4 needs to SUPPORT this sort of thing. What I mean is throw money at guys like Alan, to give customers proper timely updates. And add some decent apps like Netflix as they come along feeding straight off the C4 GUI (like Pandonas does with music) into the movies and TV and DVR section of something like XMBC: at the same time leaving all the great plugin development happening in the other "XBMC world" alone just to flourish... In other words integrate it but keep it open source. So it can grow and remain fresh and active with all the uncertainty and media changes happening ATM... Be a win win for the company as far as I can tell... Control 4 would have all that free software development happening in the background and not be paying one cent for it !!! Anyway. Just my 2 cents. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Agree.Gracenote isnt working perfect, but out of 10 movies it gets 8 of them right.Ive also tried MyMovies, and it gets 95% acurate. But for the last 5 % I still have to check manualy, and then I might aswell check them all manualy when I rip them. So, I dont mind editing the info by myself to get it the way I like it. But I would realy like a basic update. For me, the ability to add each storage-drive as a mediasource would solve most of my problems.For example, today all drives end up under the Movies-icon. If i had one drive for movies, one for series, one for children and one for special features, I would get four icons corresponding to my drives.And a search-function. Those numbers tend to hold true for ISO or IFO files, try scanning a 100 avi files, your success rate is more likely to be less than 5% using C4 scan/gracenote. Not that I can say much - I'm too picky to use either one in any auto mode for myself and have hand-added every single disc (yes those shiny little circles for every single one) to composer - and the numbers there would probably make you think me insane. But once the existing bulk is done, manually adding really isn't that intensive, I agree. And yes, some form of search would be great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 ^ Yes. Search. It's been mentioned so many times.... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 What a great thread. Thread of the year. Thanks to the OP'r for putting the issues together so well. Keep the comments coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I just don't understand why it can't display larger cover art and at a higher resolution. There are so many skins for every media jukebox that look amazing. That's all I'm after...make the GUI look better. Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaltrader Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 I just don't understand why it can't display larger cover art and at a higher resolution. There are so many skins for every media jukebox that look amazing. That's all I'm after...make the GUI look better. Sent from my Nexus 7 using TapatalkExactly! With the newer HC800 controllers why cant C4 take advantage of the processing power and display edge to edge cover art like k-scape and so many others. That shouldn't take but a one to two man team a few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 100% agree with everything said. ...can't flog the horse any more.. Over to someone else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 ^.... It's because they don't have a media management development "team"I hate to burst a bit of a bubble here. And I'm in 100% agreement with you, but we've been told before on this forum Control4 just isn't interested..It sucks?.. Sure..absolutely... Understandable? Heck no......but more than happy to beat this dead horse with you just one more time Maybe if if keep beating it solid for whole another 12 months someone might listen..Who's next?Nobody said Control4 isn't interested... And if they did; it wasn't anyone who speaks for the company. For all you (we) know they're putting the finishing touches on it and will roll it out in 2.6. I sure hope that's the case. Let's just have a discussion about it without you jumping to conclusions and attacking people. Constructive criticism is good. CONSTRUCTIVE being the operative word. I just hope that someone from the company looks at this stuff... But I don't know that they do. Sent from my Droid MAXX via Tapatalk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Over to someone else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chesterwilson Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Agreed, media management stinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericscales Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 the new upcoming media services proxy (see TuneIn) Piles of good information on this forum. I'm going to have to take a closer look at the virtual driver modified dates post releases.... VERY interesting information within this driver.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTxAg Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 But hey, the new upcoming media services proxy (see TuneIn) may change that ball game, though not perhaps in the way generally discussed here. What exactly is the new proxy supposed to do? The only mention I could find of a media services proxy on this forum in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 The intend or so I understand it is that it allows far more expansive integration of data feed back. Currently TuneIn and the C4 Wireless Media Bridge use an early version - look at the functionality there, the meta data feedback in it and it gives some hints on it's possible capabilities. I know little more than that, but can draw some conclusions for myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Exactly! With the newer HC800 controllers why cant C4 take advantage of the processing power and display edge to edge cover art like k-scape and so many others. That shouldn't take but a one to two man team a few weeks. Part of the problem is that to make that change a things have stood so far, older controllers and navigator devices are still supported as well, and they likely wouldn't have the (graphics) processing power needed. So let's hope for now that the hinted drop of device support in the near future is a hint in that direction.Though I suspect that your estimate on time required is off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericscales Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 What exactly is the new proxy supposed to do? The only mention I could find of a media services proxy on this forum in this thread. One interesting keyword I found in the updated tunein driver was "search".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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