msgreenf Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 Just now, badjesus said: Because I used one example I am myopic? lol Ok. So first of all, look at sales over time. Honeywell is actually number 1. And, we wouldn't even have NEST if it wasn't for the extra vegetables acquisition which is sort of what we are talking about. What about the new security drivers for vista series? Or is that also myopic because it is the brand honeywell? What about Myq? What about other popular smart devices that competitors are launching for free? vista driver is in final bug fixing. Control4 is making it. Granted not fast, but I am in touch with them weekly on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therockhr Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 6 minutes ago, thegreatheed said: If I was describing the most popular tstat, I would say Nest. Not Honeywell WiFi. But that doesn't fit your narrative, so, "myopic". I would bet Honeywell wifi outsells nest 2 to 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegreatheed Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 Quote we wouldn't even have NEST if it wasn't for the extra vegetables acquisition which is sort of what we are talking about Completely wrong. Nest announced their API and Control4 as their first, biggest partner at CEDIA 2013. Control4 bought Extra Vegetables in Sept 2014. So, unless Nest really meant Extra Vegetables was their partner, not Control4, a year before Control4 bought EV, you're 100% wrong here. Quote What about the new security drivers for vista series? Or is that also myopic because it is the brand honeywell? Control4 has announced they are working on them. It's not my fault you aren't up on that. Quote What about Myq? What about other popular smart devices that competitors are launching for free? I don't know anyone using Myq. That's exactly why you're myopic. Control4 doesn't have drivers for YOUR devices developed, but they've developed hundreds and thousands of others, including the industry leaders (by anyone's definition) and you're whining like this. You only see the problems right in front of you, thus myopic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prabeau Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 20 minutes ago, thegreatheed said: You guys are all myopic. "Control4 doesn't have a driver for X brand that I sell, so they don't care about developing drivers!!!!" /ignores the dozens of drivers Control4 writes each month. Heck, they even post a list of them on the dealer forums. Control4 will NEVER be able to provide drivers that cover the entire spectrum of devices that people want to sell. A healthy 3rd-party development ecosystem is FAR more efficient than Control4 trying to do everything. Where can the consumer get a list of all these drivers that are posted on the dealers forum every month ? PS with the price list please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegreatheed Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 Just now, prabeau said: Where can the consumer get a list of all these drivers that are posted on the dealers forum every month ? PS with the price list please. From your dealer. Control4-developed drivers are free. You would get a quote on your dealer's time from them as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badjesus Posted March 28, 2016 Author Share Posted March 28, 2016 Ok, my point is that Houselogix already has the driver for $150 USD. Whether C4 is "working on it" or not. It is available by Houselogix, and done. So goes to my point. The nest driver sucked. EV's nest was the only one that didn't suck. And no one that uses MyQ and I am myopic? Seriously? Just on this forum alone there are tonnes of posts about it. And we are myopic? lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therockhr Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 20 minutes ago, thegreatheed said: Control4 will NEVER be able to provide drivers that cover the entire spectrum of devices that people want to sell. A healthy 3rd-party development ecosystem is FAR more efficient than Control4 trying to do everything. Control4 should never have to use 3rd parties to distribute drivers for popular brands/products like Lutron, Honeywell, Ecobee, Wemo, Phillips, etc. You would think making consumers pay extra for using their product with Control4 would not make those companies very happy. Here is a good litmus test; if Logitech Harmony has a driver for it, Control4 should have one at no extra charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badjesus Posted March 28, 2016 Author Share Posted March 28, 2016 16 minutes ago, msgreenf said: vista driver is in final bug fixing. Control4 is making it. Granted not fast, but I am in touch with them weekly on it Yeah, for sure. I do know this. But my only point was that Houselogix has had it for a bit and it is $150 USD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badjesus Posted March 28, 2016 Author Share Posted March 28, 2016 Honestly, this is a side point, but it would even be nice if Houselogix made specific pricing for Canadian users. I know this is hard to police but they know our dealer info when you sign up, so it isn't impossible to track. Most companies are actually doing this right now, because sales have dropped in Canada a lot because of the US dollar. What would cost us $160 for a driver is now almost $200. Even that would help, but that is only a subpoint to what in my eyes is the root problem of C4 drivers being not just second place to companies like Houselogix, but rather MONTHS after and the focus is on corporate partnerships with companies like Sony so that EVERY TV has it's own driver (just one small example) as opposed to focusing on the most popular devices that every other competitor is focusing on. Even IFTT or Zapier. How does C4 not have this for free yet? Whether you think it is useful or not doesn't matter. I know it has been argued here before, but everyone else has it. Why don't they? That is the only point. Useful or not in our eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegreatheed Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 7 minutes ago, therockhr said: Control4 should never have to use 3rd parties to distribute drivers for popular brands/products like Lutron, Honeywell, Ecobee, Wemo, Phillips, etc. You would think making consumers pay extra for using their product with Control4 would not make those companies very happy. Here is a good litmus test; if Logitech Harmony has a driver for it, Control4 should have one at no extra charge. Should Apple have to use 3rd parties to distribute drivers (apps) for those products? Or does the extended developer ecosystem prove a useful boon to iOS and Apple? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 EV never had a NEST driver. NEST driver is so-so, because of NEST's API. The 'EV crew' is spitting out drivers almost weekly (often by the dozens at a time). The IT-100 is being replaced by the IT-230 on the DSC side, thus C4 on communicating with DSC went with the IT-230. The existing IT-100 works perfectly well - you just don't get the new proxy on it. MANY of the (excellent) drivers found on the Houselogix website are not based on open API - something Control4 tends to not touch for good reason. Numerous drivers that are available on Houselogix (by whomever) have C4 versions as well, though some are 'old' EV: HUE, Roku and Blue Iris are a few examples There is no new proxy driver for Vista from houselogix - there is one for older proxies (and C4 has one also) - or to use Houselogix OWN DEVICE. There's talk of 'other' automation companies - there's paid drivers for most of those as well. Yes US dollar sucks for Canada right now - but should Houselogix offer Pound, Euro, Australian dollars and more as well? Honestly - I would have to disagree completely that C4 has to create EVERY driver, hire every driver creator/developer. Why? Because that would actually be WORSE for everyone involved - the free market on this sort of thing is what DRIVES the innovation of excelling drivers like we see now. Having it all for 'free' is NOT a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therockhr Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 1 minute ago, thegreatheed said: Should Apple have to use 3rd parties to distribute drivers (apps) for those products? Or does the extended developer ecosystem prove a useful boon to iOS and Apple? You're trying to create some kind of parallel between Apple and Control4 that is just not there. This has nothing to do with iOS. Only parallel I can make is that if you buy a Samsung monitor you can guarantee Microsoft or Apple has a driver for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therockhr Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 2 minutes ago, Cyknight said: EV never had a NEST driver. They did originally before an official API was developed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegreatheed Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 Just now, therockhr said: You're trying to create some kind of parallel between Apple and Control4 that is just not there. This has nothing to do with iOS. Only parallel I can make is that if you buy a Samsung monitor you can guarantee Microsoft or Apple has a driver for it. I'm trying to show the usefulness of a 3rd party developer ecosystem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therockhr Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 Just now, thegreatheed said: I'm trying to show the usefulness of a 3rd party developer ecosystem. I'm not debating that. I would actually like to see a better 3rd party eco system where anyone could create a driver, not just the chosen few. If Composer Pro was opened up along with the developer tools the amount of drivers getting pumped out would be staggering, but oh well. What I am saying is that popular brands shouldn't cost more to integrate. Those should be the easiest and cheapest to integrate. Right now Houselogix is making and charging for very popular brands when it should be the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therockhr Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 9 minutes ago, Cyknight said: MANY of the (excellent) drivers found on the Houselogix website are not based on open API - something Control4 tends to not touch for good reason. So Sonos has an official API out now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 6 minutes ago, therockhr said: They did originally before an official API was developed. Nope - HOUSELOGIX had one - and got a cease and desist for their efforts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badjesus Posted March 28, 2016 Author Share Posted March 28, 2016 4 minutes ago, Cyknight said: EV never had a NEST driver. I thought they did. I stand corrected. 4 minutes ago, Cyknight said: MANY of the (excellent) drivers found on the Houselogix website are not based on open API - something Control4 tends to not touch for good reason. The only point is that competitors aren't. So even if there is "good reason" then why are competitors not afraid? 6 minutes ago, Cyknight said: Yes US dollar sucks for Canada right now - but should Houselogix offer Pound, Euro, Australian dollars and more as well? No, they SHOULDN'T but it WOULD be nice and other companies ARE offering this right now. So they shouldn't have to, nor do I feel they are in the wrong by NOT doing so. Just an idea I through out as others ARE doing it. 8 minutes ago, Cyknight said: Honestly - I would have to disagree completely that C4 has to create EVERY driver, hire every driver creator/developer. Why? Because that would actually be WORSE for everyone involved - the free market on this sort of thing is what DRIVES the innovation of excelling drivers like we see now. Having it all for 'free' is NOT a good thing. I DO agree with this, which is why I have reiterated a few times now that there needs to still be this market for premium drivers. My point was digressed down to the type of drivers other companies are considering to be more standard. Such as the Honeywell WiFi, or the Vista panels (whether in the works or not, right now the only option is paid), MyQ, etc. These are just a handful of examples, but browsing competitors you will see there is a huge missing crater of key drivers. It is just something to keep in mind for customers that most don't budget for, that adds a HUGE COST. If that cost wasn't so massive, it would open up the popularity A LOT of C4 and allow for more development to occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badjesus Posted March 28, 2016 Author Share Posted March 28, 2016 7 minutes ago, therockhr said: They did originally before an official API was developed. I thought they did also. I remember everyone talking about it being the only decent option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 2 minutes ago, therockhr said: So Sonos has an official API out now? You bet they do - just not an OPEN one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therockhr Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 1 minute ago, Cyknight said: Nope - HOUSELOGIX had one - and got a cease and desist for their efforts. Touche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badjesus Posted March 28, 2016 Author Share Posted March 28, 2016 3 minutes ago, Cyknight said: Nope - HOUSELOGIX had one - and got a cease and desist for their efforts. Oh ok, but doesn't this also show our point? Granted in this instance C4 did take over with their corporate partnership but this is what is required to get these drivers. C4 corporate sponsorship not their client's requests. C4 shouldn't device what drivers they do, consumers should, and this is what most companies have realized and why they have voting for which drivers get done next. Maybe this is the option? Maybe a dealer voting portal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 26 minutes ago, badjesus said: Yeah, for sure. I do know this. But my only point was that Houselogix has had it for a bit and it is $150 USD but there's is using custom hardware - so its not the same as the control4 driver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegreatheed Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 2 minutes ago, badjesus said: Oh ok, but doesn't this also show our point? Granted in this instance C4 did take over with their corporate partnership but this is what is required to get these drivers. C4 corporate sponsorship not their client's requests. C4 shouldn't device what drivers they do, consumers should, and this is what most companies have realized and why they have voting for which drivers get done next. Maybe this is the option? Maybe a dealer voting portal? NO! This shows the opposite of your point. Control4 takes into account if drivers will be based on an official API, etc. Customers do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegreatheed Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 driverrequest@control4.com there's your mechanism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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