This from Control 4 in reference to having Composer Pro

[TheOracle]

Here is what I think is a valid reason to have the ability to have Composer Pro. I've had my C4 system about 2 years now. Over that time, I've had 4-5 times where a switch "lost it's mind" and had to be deleted from the project and added back. I haven't had to pay but I'm sure I will next week when he has to come back out. If I had the software, I can likely do it myself as I end up doing some of the work because they are accessing the system via the Internet.

[pablor]

Again, it sounds like zigbee it not quite 100%. The product still needs dealer intervention to be 100%. Just like I suspected... I wonder how many systems that are out there with a significant number of wireless switches need to be tweaked once in a while? is that worth a poll?

Really, music systems running 100% is not that impressive. I have had whole house audio for more than 10 years without a single glitch. Wireless switches, speakers and thermostats are a whole different story though... Interference by other devices, metal structures, etc are very difficult to diagnose and fix...

[RyanE]

I can tell you that I haven't ever heard of an issue with dimmers where a switch "lost it's mind" that would require them to be deleted and re-added on the Official Dealer Forums, which I participate in more than I do here. I'm not saying you're not experiencing your issue, TheOracle, but I would guess that it is likely an unusual case.

As far as Zigbee itself, it does somewhat depend on how well your dealer sets up your Zigbee network. That is, there certainly could be issues if your dealer didn't ensure that you have good Zigbee coverage, but even so, Zigbee is pretty resilient against even spotty coverage. Everything just gets slower if you have spotty coverage. Signals still eventually make it through.

There *are* a few things that absolutely *will* kill a Zigbee network, the main culprits are other devices in the 2.4GHz spectrum that don't play nice. The main two culprits are 2.4GHz phones and baby monitors. They don't confine themselves to channels, they broadcast across the entire 2.4GHz spectrum, which kills not only Zigbee, but also deteriorates Wi-Fi signals. The nice thing is, since Wi-Fi is so popular, many phone and baby monitor manufacturers have switched off of 2.4GHz.

With my home setup, I personally have *never* had an issue with the dimmers that wasn't a hardware failure of the dimmer itself. The Zigbee network, if setup properly, can be pretty bulletproof. I've *never* had to tell the system to turn on a light twice. I've never had 'all off' not shut of *all* my lights.

RyanE

[SteinyD]

Ryan - what about the 8 or so neighbor wifi networks that I can see from my home? I can tell you that many of them have older routers that are stil using 2.4GHz. I know this because I've helped a couple of them secure their networks because they had default manufacturer SIDs and passwords ...

Can interference from ilbehaved networks outside of my home (beyond my control) interfere with Zigbee? Is the fact that I can see them from here evidence of potential interference?

And I hope, from the conversation of the last couple of posts that system resets (soft restart), etc., don't require a dealer to conduct such a restart.

I can tell you that I haven't ever heard of an issue with dimmers where a switch "lost it's mind" that would require them to be deleted and re-added on the Official Dealer Forums, which I participate in more than I do here. I'm not saying you're not experiencing your issue, TheOracle, but I would guess that it is likely an unusual case.

As far as Zigbee itself, it does somewhat depend on how well your dealer sets up your Zigbee network. That is, there certainly could be issues if your dealer didn't ensure that you have good Zigbee coverage, but even so, Zigbee is pretty resilient against even spotty coverage. Everything just gets slower if you have spotty coverage. Signals still eventually make it through.

There *are* a few things that absolutely *will* kill a Zigbee network, the main culprits are other devices in the 2.4GHz spectrum that don't play nice. The main two culprits are 2.4GHz phones and baby monitors. They don't confine themselves to channels, they broadcast across the entire 2.4GHz spectrum, which kills not only Zigbee, but also deteriorates Wi-Fi signals. The nice thing is, since Wi-Fi is so popular, many phone and baby monitor manufacturers have switched off of 2.4GHz.

With my home setup, I personally have *never* had an issue with the dimmers that wasn't a hardware failure of the dimmer itself. The Zigbee network, if setup properly, can be pretty bulletproof. I've *never* had to tell the system to turn on a light twice. I've never had 'all off' not shut of *all* my lights.

RyanE

[RyanE]

A system restart can be done simply by powering down the controller, waiting a few seconds, and powering it back up.

Most touchpanels can be rebooted by holding down a specific button (it depends on which touchpanel to say which button).

Wi-Fi does not use the whole spectrum, and because of that, Wi-Fi does not interfere with Zigbee signals. Zigbee was designed to co-exist on the same bandwidth as Wi-Fi.

Also, Control4's default channel for Zigbee devices is outside of the Wi-Fi spectrum, although most Zigbee channels *are within* the same 2.4GHz spectrum as Wi-Fi. When Zigbee Pro comes out, it has the ability to automatically change channels to avoid interference, which will help even more, along with other improvements.

I have my own Wi-Fi access point at my home, and several of my neighbors run Wi-Fi access points, I can probably see 10-12 of them from my front porch, they're not an issue to Zigbee.

RyanE

[wingzz]

Idiot(s), I see.

Ok I'm done here buh bye.

Hey Pot meet kettle

[CFUG]

I will try to present a "dummies" view-point here (call me dumb I guess!). I just started with C4 in a new build. With everything else about the construction, I had no time for any DIY project involving automation. My dealer did the wiring at the right time, did the equipment install, handled the wiring sabotage that followed the drywall job and helped me to learn just the basics that kept my family happy through the Hollidays. I also rely on the pros here but try not to "experiment" too much on the system my wife and kids are subjected to using.

I am just a average guy trying to simply life in my home and brag to my buddies. I'm having fun too.

Somtimes my dealer is busy and I hit-up the good folks here but overall, I rely on those people to keep me running daily. I can barely handle CHE and probably it's a good thing. A year from now I'll probably be on the other side of the fence so I see other viewpoints too. BTW, I'm a ME/EE and I do D&B for test data acquisition systems. I put my time into the things that allow me to do fun things like play with C4 at home.

[dogdvr]

Controlfouruserguy,

Your statement is why I will take time out of my day to help you.

If you have purchased HE then I will, (and I assume others) help you get the most benefits from you purchase.

I come to this forum as a hobby, not to argue.

Thanks for purchasing C4

Brent

Edit:

After reading GOGO's last post's, I am done,

If you have a question about programming, use my email and I will try to help.

Life is too short

[zaphod]

Sorry to bring back a post from the dead but there is at least one area where I should be able to add my own devices and that is a Control4 outlet switch/dimmer. This is a device that doesn't require any wiring and that has fairly simple programming requirements. IMHO it shouldn't require dealer intervention to add one of these to my system, especially if I plan to do all of the programming for it myself.

I know it is as simple as having the dealer log in and add it but this isn't rocket science. And then I don't believe I can move the device from one room to another in HE. I physically moved my outlet switch from a bedroom to my living room to use for Christmas lights in December but as far as C4 was concerned this light was still in the bedroom. I didn't bother calling my dealer to have him move this switch in the system and then a month later move it back.

[CFUG]

Yes, but what about bindings with other devices for example a dimmer mated to a 2B in a 3-way setup? Now you are talking about something that can get messed-up, cause frustration and that in turn could spoil the C4 experience. I pull my hair out just getting LEDs to behave but that's me. I'm involved enough just running around the house pushing the UP button four times for my dealer while on the cell phone.

[zaphod]

That is a higher level of complexity then just adding something called "Outlet Switch" and then adding "Lamp1" and "Lamp2" that are attached to it.

[CFUG]

True, and I have that situation as well. But, a little foresight is needed. For example, I asked myself where would I use outlets- Kitchen and Outdoors. So, dealer puts one in the Kitchen zone and the other in the Outdoor zone. They are labeled merely Aux1, Aux2 (Kitchen) and Aux 3, Aux4 (Outdoor). Come Christmas time i dust-off the outlet and plug it in outside. The kitchen one is for crock pots and coffee makers without a timer or anything else small appliance-related.

I'm not suggesting anything here but what I do is gather-up several tasks for my dealer and ask him to quote the package. Usually, he will find a way to glom onto another job of his and shave time (read $$). You know, while he's waiting around for a system to update or scan-out, he can hit my controller up for some changes. Also, he is like the power company, his rate becomes cheaper at night working from home.

[zaphod]

That's a good idea to batch jobs and have your dealer do several at once. Do you use one of the regular outlet switches outdoors? I looked for an outdoor outlet switch but they didn't seem to exist so I had my dealer put a rebular switch that controls my outdoor outlet that I use for Christmas lights, etc.

[thecodeman]

You could even wire up a switch inside to control an outlet outside if you wanted.

[RyanE]

I had my dealer put a rebular switch that controls my outdoor outlet that I use for Christmas lights, etc.

The one thing you should watch for is that Christmas lights draw a *lot* of power, and could burn out a regular switch / dimmer if overloaded.

RyanE

[zaphod]

These are LEDs so I don't think that they draw too much.

[thecodeman]

I had my dealer put a rebular switch that controls my outdoor outlet that I use for Christmas lights' date=' etc.[/quote']

The one thing you should watch for is that Christmas lights draw a *lot* of power, and could burn out a regular switch / dimmer if overloaded.

RyanE

Looks like a good excuse to buy a Kill-A-Watt.

[CFUG]

Speaking of saving, any of you heard of the upcoming "Earth Hour"? I don't think my C4 system likes this idea

[RyanE]

The nice thing about this is that since it's at a certain time, I can use the Control4 Scheduler agent to have it turn on all my lights during that hour, to cancel out my neighbors.

Saturday, March 28, 8:30-9:30pm.

Of course, it doesn't say what time zone, so I could be doing the wrong hour...

RyanE

[CFUG]

You're killing me! The serious part of this is I past-up a chance to be Neighborhood Watch Block Captain because I felt people here were only inot the parties and not the safety aspect. Now this came by my desk and I thought what an oportunistic moment for theives. Well, C4 is on guard here! Touche!

[RyanE]

Heh.

I really doubt 'Earth Hour' will cause spontaneous thievery, etc. I mean, you *can* still turn your lights back on if you hear a bump in the night.

RyanE

[CFUG]

Yeah, I hear you but the notion here is to really make an effort to save for that one hour. I just can't understand it because this is suppose to increase awareness to the point that you will never want to run your outdoor lights? Come now. Residential usage is piddly.

[RyanE]

Yeah, I already really watch my light usage, and have my lights monitored with my Control4 system.

I don't like leaving lights on, and rarely do these days.

RyanE

[RyanE]

Although, that said, I draw the line at CF bulbs. The ones I've tried have all burned out in *extremely* short times (less than a year).

Of course, they *were* cheapies, but even they said they were supposed to last longer than standard incandescent.

Bull.

I've been in my house for nearly 8 years (with dimmers the whole time), and don't replace bulbs that often.

RyanE

[CFUG]

Right, this is kinda my point. Even though shopping center lighting kills the savings from Earth Hour, we are still throttling-back on wattage through the use of dimmers (at least I hope this is the case). Right on the CFLs- they will become a thing of the past before too long.

I like showing off the house at night through the use of a variety of interesting lighting. I have LED, LV, Xenon dimmed-back and IC dimmed way down. I don't really know but my electric bill tells me I have made a difference since installing C4. I have only been in a new onstruction since Nov. 08 but the electric use is ratcheting-down since i have learned new programming techniques and tricks with the daily lighting usage.

So, all-in-all, my neighbors will practice, for one hour, what I've been doing for 4 months now. Sort of, thanks to C4 and the fine poeple here who have helped me to understand the system.