wappinghigh Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 I have been reading posts with interest on folks wiring up echo dots back to multi channel amps etc.. So how soon do you all think we are from things like the echo dot offering serious competition as Input output devices to say using an Sr250 or a touch screen? Couple months? Couple of years? I ask this because if Control4 want to stop support of older room controllers and TS's etc and won't support upgrade of individual room Controllers like the HC200 and I can't cycle them down the line for longer than a couple of years..I mean why bother ever buying another individual room controller or TS or remote ever again??? Why not just stick with one controller in the rack running director ie the backbone of a project.?..I mean that is what Control4 is good at so just get it to stick to that.. (And only upgrade that ...and only when you have to) , no C4 touchscreens or remotes forget them.... and just put in things like echo dots? And Nvidia shields with the IR extender and use the odd iphone app as a rescue...? I mean why not? If the company seems hell bent to be forcing owners down that route of not supporting older controllers and input output devices taking ages to release intercom apps and the like.... sod it all....why not? Their problem. It's their policy not supporting their own hardware and all... But how long before you all think echo dots are really feasible? Not experimental - but "just work" 95% of the time... I'd accept 95%...that's pretty much the success rate of using an SR250/TS in my hands anyway... And any pitfalls? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevestobo Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 I have an echo dot in the rack called “house echo” and voice activation to turn each room on to the dot input, so all I do is say “Alexa turn on house echo” then my other 4 echos can control the one in the rack by saying “play top 50 on house echo” etc. it works 100% of the time. I know you can get the system to auto detect when the rack echo starts to play music voice etc but never bothered with that. One other thing I did was to switch the mic off in the rack echo as it is close to one of the other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic30101 Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 I think he is meaning as an interface not so much music content. I don't see it happening for years if it ever does get to be a smooth enough operation. I'd rather have a remote and hard buttons especially when navigating a menu or guide. By voice would take 5+ times longer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 Agree. I find my remote to be way more reliable than alexa Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 Alexa channel up. Alexa channel up. Alexa channel up. Alexa previous channel Not how I want to watch tv. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 Alexa channel up. Alexa channel up. Alexa channel up. Alexa previous channel Not how I want to watch tv. Mind control... Alexa for the mind Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcovach Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 2 hours ago, msgreenf said: Mind control... Alexa for the mind Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk I think my wife would be upset if that worked. I could see her privately asking Alexa a lot of questions about me just for the sake of being on the same page in real time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Africa C4 user Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 I find it works 100% for some things but has a long way to go for others. We use the one in our main bedroom for the following (we have lots of other things programmed but don’t use them in real life): 1. Alexa, turn on/off Television (we often say this as we are walking to sit down on the couch and pick up an SR260 to continue our control); 2. Alexa, turn on Apple TV (and replacing Apple TV with Explora, Apple Mac, Movies, Camears, etc.); 3. Alexa, trigger close blinds (and replacing close with open, partial and half); 4. Alexa, trigger close left blind (and replacing left with right, center or middle) (and replacing close with open, partial and half); 5. Alexa, trigger xxx’s playlist (xxx being one of the family’s names). 6. Alexa, turn on / off various lights. 7. Alexa turn on / off panic (activates the alarm normally or silently - have not used this in real life - fortunately). However, we also use the SR260 remote for TV control and other things when we are watching TV and a T3 in the bedroom for more intricate house control, checking things etc. In fact we have 4 T3s in total and despite Alexa having been set up primarily for the main bedroom, our main bedroom T3 is used more than any other T3 in the house. To summarise, love my Echo Dot but it compliments other devices in my ecosystem and is nowhere near replacing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted April 7, 2018 Author Share Posted April 7, 2018 Interesting. Thanks for all the replies. Seems we are a while yet from Alexa being able to understand and direct specific voice commands to be used for tasks otherwise still directed by remotes or touchscreens. Why exactly is that? Is it a software constraint in Alexa itself, or one in the Control4-Alexa driver and C4online server setup? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 Interesting. Thanks for all the replies. Seems we are a while yet from Alexa being able to understand and direct specific voice commands to be used for tasks otherwise still directed by remotes or touchscreens. Why exactly is that? Is it a software constraint in Alexa itself, or one in the Control4-Alexa driver and C4online server setup? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Avs - alexa voice services aren't as advanced as you think they are Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted April 7, 2018 Author Share Posted April 7, 2018 Avs - alexa voice services aren't as advanced as you think they are Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk Ok thanks for that explanation How long before you see them getting to the point of being useful in our projects? Months? Or years? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic30101 Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 Years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted April 8, 2018 Author Share Posted April 8, 2018 12 minutes ago, sonic30101 said: Years Ok thanks for that useful information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 Ok thanks for that useful information.Years but imho remotes will still have a place. It's quicker then speaking things and letting it process and execute Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 I don't think there's any way someone on this forum could estimate how long it will take for voice services to improve to become 'good enough' to meet some arbitrary set of abilities, since no one I know of on these forums works for Amazon, Google, Apple, or JoshAI (or some other Voice provider I can't currently think of). No doubt they'll continue to improve, and at some point they'll likely make it worth it to use them as a 'main' control point, as long as you like talking to your house. RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pounce Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 I can tell you that if Amazon offered a way to monetize skills and have private skills we would be farther down the road for something specific for Control4. At the moment the emphasis is on consumers in a broad way. It's actually probably a good strategy even though it doesn't meet my specific needs or desires. There are a lot of very cool things you can do with AWS services including pushing and running code at a remote location such as a residence to interact with physical hardware and sensors. AWS sometimes doesn't do a good job of making these kinds of things obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted April 9, 2018 Author Share Posted April 9, 2018 I look forward to this becoming a reality so I can "EOL" my TS's and remotes myself, then replace them with the next wave of Amazon echo dots. W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic30101 Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 I like voice a lot and mostly use it for source selection, mute/unmute, pause/play/double tap play, volume percentages, previous channel, cancel, changing channels, light scenes, light son/off, lights percentages, HVAC up/down. Especially with 2 kids it is easier to speak for something simple and quick compared to picking up the remote or using my phone because i dont always have an extra hand. But if I am watching TV/kodi/streaming I am still going to a handheld remote. Logistically "press down", (wait), "press down", (wait), "press down", (wait),"press enter" would take forever. I am sure it will get better but I dont know if it will ever get so smooth at least in the immediate future and I think it will be years IMO that it can replace a handheld remote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therockhr Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 Voice control will always be a compliment user interface and not the main interface. As long as we watch TV we will need an interface that we can use without looking at. That is why a hard button is still needed. As for Amazon Echo/Alexa being a viable control platform, it already is (for some). When talking about Alexa/Echo as a replacement for ALL Control4, I don't think that will ever happen as Control4 is not going after the masses. They are going after Crestron's residential market and the upper middle class homes (think Toll Brothers communities). Amazon and others are going after the easy things; whole home audio, door locks, lighting, thermostats and basic security. They are not going to go after the difficult and large integrations that Crestron and Control4 would do. They also will not be going after the custom AV market either is that is something that has too many variables at this time. Maybe once TV and set top box vendors do more IP control they would move more into this arena, but given all the different configurations I would think they would be ok with letting someone else do that integration and they just be the voice UI. Again, Amazon is going after the middle to upper middle class. This is of course where the biggest growth potential is. This is a also a market where there was not an affordable easy to use system until now. This is basically a new market. There is still not a good AV remote solution for this segment though. Logitech Harmony is still just a one room solution and seems to not want to venture too far out of IR control. Control4 is going after the upper middle to upper class. This has been the traditional space for custom integrators. The recent acquisitions of premium audio and network companies further this plan. I think 5-6 years ago C4 could have tried to make a push down market but for whatever reason they chose not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 I agree that voice will not replace hard buttons. Most of my TV watching is sports and I am constantly using the SkipFwd button on my remote to zip through stoppages in play, commercials, etc. It is far quicker to press that button a couple of times than to use voice commands. But if you never use the transport controls once you start watching a show then it might work better for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic30101 Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 1 hour ago, therockhr said: There is still not a good AV remote solution for this segment though. Logitech Harmony is still just a one room solution and seems to not want to venture too far out of IR control. Agreed for DIY they are the best I have come across. For a simple family room and maybe an avr with zone2. Or simple sonos integration they are about as feature packed as you can get with the hub based ones. Limited number of IR ports becomes an issue, especially when there are more than 2 items that share codes. The bluetooth and few IP devices they can control are nice and IFTTT is very helpful. I would rather have one of these over a basic URC MX remote in most cases if the system can be designed accordingly, plus end users dont have access to URC software at all. But you can't compare what c4 is capable of to one of these and logitech isn't trying to do that much. They want something simple enough to be configured via app in 30 minutes with a wizard before the end user gets frustrated. I set them up for the inlaws and the neighbors that wanted something simple and it works really good for an entry level consumer product Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therockhr Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, sonic30101 said: Agreed for DIY they are the best I have come across. For a simple family room and maybe an avr with zone2. Or simple sonos integration they are about as feature packed as you can get with the hub based ones. Limited number of IR ports becomes an issue, especially when there are more than 2 items that share codes. The bluetooth and few IP devices they can control are nice and IFTTT is very helpful. I would rather have one of these over a basic URC MX remote in most cases if the system can be designed accordingly, plus end users dont have access to URC software at all. But you can't compare what c4 is capable of to one of these and logitech isn't trying to do that much. They want something simple enough to be configured via app in 30 minutes with a wizard before the end user gets frustrated I wish Logitech would focus more on AV control. They need to make a whole home solution. 1 hub with the ability to have several hard button remotes. More IP control. Be able to control Global Cache devices so you can expand to more rooms. Absolutely no reason for Logitech to not be able to control a Denon receiver via IP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic30101 Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 They should, and maybe one day ish. Problem is I think most people see a $300 universal remote on the shelf at best buy and say what kind of idiot buys this crap. Then goes home and juggles 4 remotes not truly understanding what a good universal remote can do for them so something more expensive than the elite may be a lot of R&D for a small portion of consumer base. Another issue would be setup because that could be a lot even if the software is great and theirs wizard is good to make it as simple as possible at the cost of customizability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted April 9, 2018 Author Share Posted April 9, 2018 At the moment the echo dots work as just “dumb” voice receivers feeding their pre-made voice control commands into the Control4 eco system right? But what happens when the smarts at Amazon (or in a different product like Google) get so good they control our AV and lights and everything direct? I guess it just depends if thats what the boffins at Google and Amazon are working on right now . Are they? I’ve been around to see what happens when a corporate spat over the end user occurs between two tech companies (Sonos and Spotify) Remember that? In the end the more consumer focused and innovative company wins. Those with the sheer NUMBER of consumers as “customers”.... But a lot of folks here don’t like me posting my thoughts so I am trying to wind back. I’m sorry to all BTW that some think I rant and troll I didn’t mean to wind you all up. Just make you think. My Apologies I’m moving on. Cheers W Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pounce Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 8 minutes ago, wappinghigh said: I’m sorry to all BTW that some think I rant and troll I didn’t mean to wind you all up. Just make you think. I really want this to be a Haiku Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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