Pool temperature

[ILoveControl]

Anyone played around with a wireless water temp gauge for a pool for C4?

 

Would be nice to know my pool temp :-)

 

 

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[SMHarman]

Anyone played around with a wireless water temp gauge for a pool for C4?
 
Would be nice to know my pool temp :-)
 
 
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Didn't we cover this before with temp sensors on the outside of the heater input pipe and then calculating the pool temp based on that plus an adjustment factor.

Easier than some wireless thing bobbing in the pool.

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[zaphod]

I would love to know about this if you find one.  I was working on a project called PoolPi with a Raspberry Pi in a plastic food-type container with solar panels and batteries for power.  I put a temperature sensor on it as well.

[KWD]

C4 compatible pool controller seems to be the easiest route. 
 
You might already have a temp probe installed around the pump/filter intake or discharge connected to your controller. 

[ILoveControl]

3 hours ago, zaphod said:

I would love to know about this if you find one.  I was working on a project called PoolPi with a Raspberry Pi in a plastic food-type container with solar panels and batteries for power.  I put a temperature sensor on it as well.

Now that is cool  is the project on github?

[zaphod]

No, I never got that far - this was a project from the summer of 2015.  I was using a DS18B20 as a temperature sensor.  One of my problems was power  - I was using rechargable AA batteries connected to a smart power supply.  I had about 12"x8" solar panel for charging.  But I don't think my power supply connections worked properly to charge the batteries and power the Pi at the same time.  Ideally it would have provided enough power to run overnight and maybe for a day or two without power.  This was prior to the introduction of the Pi Zero which would be even better for this project.  I was using a RPi Model A.  I believe you can now get more sophisticated solar power supplies for the Pi that would help

In an ideal world you would have pH sensors and Free Chlorine sensors (not easy to do) that would keep real time logs of these readings.  Then the PoolPi could notify you when your pH or Free Chlorine got out of spec.  Potentially you could also put in a salinity sensor as well.  I was also hoping to put a Pi camera in so that I could have a web server running in my pool that would provide live photos.  How cool is that!

But the thing that killed the project initially was that my floating plastic box (a Lock & Lock food storage box) leaked and the Pi fried.  The other problem was cooling the Pi as you were in a watertight container that was exposed to direct sunlight so the inside of the container would get very hot.  I never got around to this but my idea to solve that problem would be to use the outer case as a heatsink connected to the Pi's CPU as the pool water should provide a good liquid cooling mechanism.  But then you would perhaps want to use another material that is a better conductor of heat - like aluminum as the bottom half of the case.

By the way, there is a project on GitHub called PoolPi where someone uses a Pi with a DS18B20 to record their pool temperature.  They stole my idea!  They also include an Alexa sKILL.

Here is a photo before she died.

 

p.s. Playing around with a Raspberry Pi makes you wonder why C4 controllers cost so much.  A Raspberry Pi has a SOC that is probably not that different than what is in a C4 controller, and with some coding you can make a Pi do many things that a C4 controller do, and some things that a C4 controller doesn't (like being a Kodi or Plex client).  But the Pi only costs $35 bare or $50 with uSD card, power supply and case.  But I guess C4 has to make enough money to survive and prosper, and they weren't doing a great job on that when they were taken out by SnapAV.  They were trading at approximately the same level as their 2013 IPO price.

[SMHarman]

No, I never got that far - this was a project from the summer of 2015.  I was using a DS18B20 as a temperature sensor.  One of my problems was power  - I was using rechargable AA batteries connected to a smart power supply.  I had about 12"x8" solar panel for charging.  But I don't think my power supply connections worked properly to charge the batteries and power the Pi at the same time.  Ideally it would have provided enough power to run overnight and maybe for a day or two without power.  This was prior to the introduction of the Pi Zero which would be even better for this project.  I was using a RPi Model A.  I believe you can now get more sophisticated solar power supplies for the Pi that would help
In an ideal world you would have pH sensors and Free Chlorine sensors (not easy to do) that would keep real time logs of these readings.  Then the PoolPi could notify you when your pH or Free Chlorine got out of spec.  Potentially you could also put in a salinity sensor as well.  I was also hoping to put a Pi camera in so that I could have a web server running in my pool that would provide live photos.  How cool is that!
But the thing that killed the project initially was that my floating plastic box (a Lock & Lock food storage box) leaked and the Pi fried.  The other problem was cooling the Pi as you were in a watertight container that was exposed to direct sunlight so the inside of the container would get very hot.  I never got around to this but my idea to solve that problem would be to use the outer case as a heatsink connected to the Pi's CPU as the pool water should provide a good liquid cooling mechanism.  But then you would perhaps want to use another material that is a better conductor of heat - like aluminum as the bottom half of the case.
By the way, there is a project on GitHub called PoolPi where someone uses a Pi with a DS18B20 to record their pool temperature.  They stole my idea!  They also include an Alexa sKILL.
Here is a photo before she died.

 
p.s. Playing around with a Raspberry Pi makes you wonder why C4 controllers cost so much.  A Raspberry Pi has a SOC that is probably not that different than what is in a C4 controller, and with some coding you can make a Pi do many things that a C4 controller do, and some things that a C4 controller doesn't (like being a Kodi or Plex client).  But the Pi only costs $35 bare or $50 with uSD card, power supply and case.  But I guess C4 has to make enough money to survive and prosper, and they weren't doing a great job on that when they were taken out by SnapAV.  They were trading at approximately the same level as their 2013 IPO price.

Didn't we cover this before with temp sensors on the outside of the heater input pipe and then calculating the pool temp based on that plus an adjustment factor.

Easier than some wireless thing bobbing in the pool.

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So instead of having this bob in a pool, connect the thermometer to the side of the pipe going into the heater. Duct tape and some insulation on the side not connected to the pipe?

Then get the temp from this sensor and compare to the pool water temp and calibrate the output.

Then the pi sits mostly in the dry in a cooler place with an electricity supply.

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[zaphod]

I know - but that is a lot lower on the geek cred scale!  Having a computer floating in your pool powered by solar power - now that is cool!

I was using this as a project to learn more about how to play around with hardware like the Pi, including power supplies, solar panels, batteries, etc.  Not very practical for various reasons.  Far better would be being able to easily insert probes of various types into your pool pump system.

I have done something very similar to what you suggest for monitoring temps of my rooftop evacuated tube solar heater.  I have temperature sensors taped on both the inflow and outflow pipes.  That let's me so how much the water is being warmed via a web UI. Here is an example of what it looks like.  You can clearly see when the pump turns on and off and then see the max heating around early afternoon.

 

 

[ILoveControl]

9 hours ago, zaphod said:

I know - but that is a lot lower on the geek cred scale!  Having a computer floating in your pool powered by solar power - now that is cool!

I was using this as a project to learn more about how to play around with hardware like the Pi, including power supplies, solar panels, batteries, etc.  Not very practical for various reasons.  Far better would be being able to easily insert probes of various types into your pool pump system.

I have done something very similar to what you suggest for monitoring temps of my rooftop evacuated tube solar heater.  I have temperature sensors taped on both the inflow and outflow pipes.  That let's me so how much the water is being warmed via a web UI. Here is an example of what it looks like.  You can clearly see when the pump turns on and off and then see the max heating around early afternoon.

 

 

That is huge on the geek scale love it!!! Well then you could measure intake (current temp) and out flow (heated) that would be perfect - do you have a github project for this?

[zaphod]

The blue and red lines on the graph are the intake and out flow.  This has been live for 4-5 years although it died a few months ago. I never permanently wired the hardware so it is just sitting on a breadboard on my workbench.  I don't have a github project but I will try to build one.  I started out with this:  http://raspberrywebserver.com/cgiscripting/rpi-temperature-logger/

It is surprisingly easy to do the charting.  You just send an array of data to a google graph service and it generates the graph for you.

[zaphod]

I am revisiting this thread to try to figure out how to get my pool temp into C4 so that I can then use C4 as my pool thermostat.  I currently have the fireman's switch of my pool heater connected to a relay controlled by C4. But I have no way of reading the temperature so the thermostat function is still done by the Raypak pool heater.  But I would rather control everything in C4, like adjusting the temperature setting.

1. What is the best way to get the water temperature into C4? Are there devices with external temperature probes that are C4 native you can use?  Should I use a Raspberry Pi with a waterproof DS18B20? Some other type of smart thermometer with an API? (There may be aquarium thermometer that would do the trick)
2. Assuming that I am using a thermometer that is not native to C4, what is the best way to get the reading into C4?  Use the Chowmain Generic TCP driver to send data to C4? Can you use that to send variables, like a temperature?
3. Is it sufficient to just tape a thermometer sensor to the outside of a pipe?  Or do you need to have more direct access to the water, like drilling a hole in a pipe and pushing the probe in and then sealing up the hole?  Or drilling the hole in the top of the pump's filter basket?
4. Once I have a reliable temperature reading, is there some way of using a thermostat proxy so I don't have to write all of my own code to function as a thermostat?
5. Any ideas on how you would then adjust the temperature setting in an easy way, other than having to change variables in Composer HE?  Assuming that you could use the thermostat proxy I guess this would not be an issue.

[RAV]

From the dealer forum.

This was used connected to a Z2IO thermistor input.

https://www.amazon.com/AR-PRO-Temperature-20-Feet-Replacement-Automation/dp/B07Q8RHK7D?pd_rd_w=gFDmd&pf_rd_p=3b2464be-88ad-4bc6-b457-b3c351da1533&pf_rd_r=5T2RC8BZKGXT4QM7V268&pd_rd_r=6cca5880-5a60-4f10-a6e9-e739a76d6111&pd_rd_wg=0JPOk&pd_rd_i=B07Q8RHK7D&psc=1&ref_=pd_bap_d_rp_52_t

[zaphod]

Thanks, I didn't know that you could connect an external thermistor to a Z2IO.

[Wayne]

Just found this and looks interesting https://www.proautomation.co/  with home assistant and Raspberry Pi 4 integration https://www.proautomation.co/poolsense-now-integrates-with-home-assistant/. Maybe some clever guy on the forum can make it work with C4

[zaphod]

Somebody ripped off my PoolPi project (see above)!

[ILoveC4]

I just use the IntelliCenter and it pulls all this in. 

[ejn1]

14 minutes ago, ILoveC4 said:

I just use the IntelliCenter and it pulls all this in. 

Same here...  Seems like a getting a control panel with temp feeds to C4 is the much simpler approach.  

[zaphod]

What do you connect the Intellicenter to?  Intellicenter appears to be Pentair.  My SWCG is Jandy Aquapure and my heater is Raypak which seems to have no Smart control.

And isn't Intellicenter very expensive for limited functionality?

[ejn1]

8 hours ago, zaphod said:

What do you connect the Intellicenter to?  Intellicenter appears to be Pentair.  My SWCG is Jandy Aquapure and my heater is Raypak which seems to have no Smart control.

And isn't Intellicenter very expensive for limited functionality?

It’s the new Pentair control panel which gives the pool advanced control automation eg control via app / cloud,  C4 via free driver.   It was a $900 upgrade for me from my earlier non smart control pentair panel so not cheap but it gives more than just temperature connectivity. It connects via Wi-Fi module or Ethernet directly. Not sure what jandy has in this space.  

[ILoveC4]

Yeah, what EJN said. It’s the pool controller. It controls the salt chlorinator, the valves, the pumps, the lights, the auto chemical system...all that stuff. It allows me interface with it on the built in tiny little touch screen or on my phone. There’s a Control4 built driver and it works well. 

[Seth N]

I use a C4 thermostat that is installed by the pool pump in a weather tight plastic box. I used the external temperature probe connected to a special insert that my pool guy installed by the pump. The C4 thermostat now has the correct temperature of the pool. The pool heater power is controlled by a C4 relay. The pool temperature on the heater is set to the highest level (104). I then set the temperature on the pool thermostat. Through programming if the thermostat is calling for heat I turn on the C4 relay that turns on the power to the heater. When the thermostat turns off I turn off the C4 relay turning off the power to the heater. 
Works great.