Can EA-1 power two zones?

[zaphod]

I don't disagree with you and I think C4 will be moving to more of a SaaS model to get you to pay more of a subscription fee rather than buying hardware.  But they do still need some hardware for human interfaces including remote controls, IR control, etc.  I also don't think it makes sense to have the C4 controller in the cloud due to latency and reliability, amongst other issues. Do I want my ability to turn on my lights be dependent on a cloud connection?  I think not.

[mod220]

Just now, zaphod said:

I don't disagree with you and I think C4 will be moving to more of a SaaS model to get you to pay more of a subscription fee rather than buying hardware.  But they do still need some hardware for human interfaces including remote controls, IR control, etc.  I also don't think it makes sense to have the C4 controller in the cloud due to latency and reliability, amongst other issues. Do I want my ability to turn on my lights be dependent on a cloud connection?  I think not.

yeah that makes sense.   super basic question here, but how does C4 remote control devices?   is the Controller Zigbee, Zwave, Bluetooth, WIFI, radio, and IR compatible?  Or, is the remote IR only, then the controller speaks more "languages" to devices?  sorry for the noob questions! 

[SMHarman]

I know what you mean and that some what makes distributed AV less attractrive, but you can't have an Amp in the cloud. 

Those AVR can be uniquely controlled in the same cabinet using IP control. Wired or wifi.

[mod220]

1 minute ago, SMHarman said:

33 minutes ago, zaphod said:

I know what you mean and that some what makes distributed AV less attractrive, but you can't have an Amp in the cloud. 

Those AVR can be uniquely controlled in the same cabinet using IP control. Wired or wifi.

with C4 or Logitech Harmony?  Other than this one issue, and maybe space/aesthetics, I can't for the life of me figure out why more people don't buy AVRs w/ two zones, compared to the cost of a HEOS AMP or the multi-zone units.  $150/zone vs $500/zone...

[SMHarman]

with C4 or Logitech Harmony?

C4

[zaphod]

The controller has Zigbee, Wifi, ethernet, IR, relays and serial.  The remote, at least the older SR-260 remotes, is Zigbee.  So the controller can control things using IP (via wifi or ethernet), IR, serial, Zigbee or by flipping relays. The Remote only has to talk to the controller as it doesn't directly control devices, the controller does. Think of the controller as a quarterback that can control anything, assuming that is has a C4 driver.  The remote control, or phone/tablet app, or touchpad, or keypad, tells the controller what to do.

[mod220]

1 minute ago, zaphod said:

The controller has Zigbee, Wifi, ethernet, IR, relays and serial.  The remote, at least the older SR-260 remotes, is Zigbee.  So the controller can control things using IP (via wifi or ethernet), IR, serial, Zigbee or by flipping relays. The Remote only has to talk to the controller as it doesn't directly control devices, the controller does. Think of the controller as a quarterback that can control anything, assuming that is has a C4 driver.  The remote control, or phone/tablet app, or touchpad, or keypad, tells the controller what to do.

if remote uses Zigbee to talk to controller, why does it have IR extenders?

[Elvis]

20 minutes ago, mod220 said:

just seems like all processing could be in the cloud, and you had amps for power and tablet/voice/remote for control in the home.   seems like a far better model.  C4 could ditch the hardware and become a SaaS business like every other company...

Oh please don't wish for this! Not everyone has zero latency Internet access.

1 minute ago, mod220 said:

if remote uses Zigbee to talk to controller, why does it have IR extenders?

The controller has IR extenders to talk to things that need IR, like older TVs, etc. My entire first setup was via IR from the HC-250 to everything -- if nothing else it was reliable, if ugly. 

[mod220]

Just now, Elvis said:

Oh please don't wish for this! Not everyone has zero latency Internet access.

The controller has IR extenders to talk to things that need IR, like older TVs, etc. My entire first setup was via IR from the HC-250 to everything -- if nothing else it was reliable, if ugly. 

well I'm just stoked I can keep my poor man HEOS/AVR system going!  haha, not sure why Harmony only uses IR, lame...

[zaphod]

 

Just now, mod220 said:

if remote uses Zigbee to talk to controller, why does it have IR extenders?

I am not sure what you mean by IR extenders? The controllers have (usually) 4-6 IR outputs to control devices via IR "bugs".  But those are totally independent from the remote controls.  You can fully control a full AV system with a dozen components without a single remote control in your C4 system.  The newer Neo remote controls use Wifi, I think.  

There are C4 devices called Z2IR for Zigbee to IR that are smaller devices that receive Zigbee signals from your controller and send out IR signals. Those are suitable for rooms where you need IR control but where you don't need audio streams or a video OSD.

[Elvis]

Do you have all those amps up and running now? 

[zaphod]

Just now, mod220 said:

well I'm just stoked I can keep my poor man HEOS/AVR system going!  haha, not sure why Harmony only uses IR, lame...

Harmony also uses Bluetooth, which C4 doesn't have.  It may also use IP as newer Harmony devices have a hub which connects to your LAN so in theory it should be able to do IP control.

[mod220]

2 minutes ago, Elvis said:

Do you have all those amps up and running now? 

Yes, they work great, I just use the HEOS app.   Never had any luck w/ Alexa or Harmony, unfortunately.

[zaphod]

12 minutes ago, mod220 said:

with C4 or Logitech Harmony?  Other than this one issue, and maybe space/aesthetics, I can't for the life of me figure out why more people don't buy AVRs w/ two zones, compared to the cost of a HEOS AMP or the multi-zone units.  $150/zone vs $500/zone...

C4 makes matrix amps that are awesome, except that they don't have surround sound capabilities.  These are the triad line and are fairly expensive.  There older four zone and eight zone amps are still quite solid.  They had some non-matrix amps that are less old that seemed to have reliability issues. If you do get into C4 you can buy these older matrix amps on ebay and have them added to your system if you need lots of zones.  

[Elvis]

@msgreenf I'm pretty sure is HEOS guru. He should weigh in on this. The only issue I see is whether or not you can stream to one Denon AVR that supports HEOS, and listen to it from another Denon AVR with HEOS.

 

[mod220]

5 minutes ago, zaphod said:

C4 makes matrix amps that are awesome, except that they don't have surround sound capabilities.  These are the triad line and are fairly expensive.  There older four zone and eight zone amps are still quite solid.  They had some non-matrix amps that are less old that seemed to have reliability issues. If you do get into C4 you can buy these older matrix amps on ebay and have them added to your system if you need lots of zones.  

I think my three, soon to be four AVRs, will have all my zones covered for audio, but will keep this in mind!

[mod220]

5 minutes ago, Elvis said:

@msgreenf I'm pretty sure is HEOS guru. He should weigh in on this. The only issue I see is whether or not you can stream to one Denon AVR that supports HEOS, and listen to it from another Denon AVR with HEOS.

 

what do you mean by "it," the streaming audio?  if they are on seperate EA controllers, is that what you mean?

[Elvis]

Just now, mod220 said:

what do you mean by "it," the streaming audio?  if they are on seperate EA controllers, is that what you mean?

If you stream a song to one of your Denon AVRs with HEOS, is there a way to listen to that stream of that song on another Denon AVR with HEOS? In other words, you are in one room listening, walk into another room and want to keep listening to the same song? 

For example, my wife was listening on the family room via Airplay 2 to the AppleTV in that room. She walked out on our porch where we have Sonos, and just added the porch via the Airplay 2 interface -- now the song is playing on the porch and still playing in the family room. Make sense?

If you can do this with your current setup via the HEOS app or Airplay, then I think you are in for a good experience.

[mod220]

7 minutes ago, Elvis said:

If you stream a song to one of your Denon AVRs with HEOS, is there a way to listen to that stream of that song on another Denon AVR with HEOS? In other words, you are in one room listening, walk into another room and want to keep listening to the same song? 

For example, my wife was listening on the family room via Airplay 2 to the AppleTV in that room. She walked out on our porch where we have Sonos, and just added the porch via the Airplay 2 interface -- now the song is playing on the porch and still playing in the family room. Make sense?

If you can do this with your current setup via the HEOS app or Airplay, then I think you are in for a good experience.

Yes, HEOS allows you to "group devices."  so you can play the same song all over.  the one limitation with mine is the same AVR, even though it has 2 zones, cannot play two different streams.   you can however choose which of the two zones is on/off....does that make sense?  so each AVR has two seperate powers and volume controls for the 2 zones, but not two audio streams....

[Elvis]

1 minute ago, mod220 said:

Yes, HEOS allows you to "group devices."  so you can play the same song all over.  the one limitation with mine is the same AVR, even though it has 2 zones, cannot play two different streams.   you can however choose which of the two zones is on/off....does that make sense?  so each AVR has two seperate powers and volume controls for the 2 zones, but not two audio streams....

That's awesome. I just made sure the receivers I had powered adjacent zones. Hopefully that will work out for you. I scaled down from 7.2 to 5.1 and 2.1 and never looked back. 9.1 to 5.1, 2.0, and 2.0 -- five zones out of two amps, and two with surround. But I had mine centralized so I could stream one source to both receivers, and this was expensive and problematic. Sounds to me like HEOS is taking care of this and letting you de-centralize your system.

If HEOS will send HDMI audio to another receiver, you're golden.

[mod220]

8 minutes ago, Elvis said:

If HEOS will send HDMI audio to another receiver, you're golden.

When would this be a factor?

[Cyknight]

1 hour ago, mod220 said:

just seems like all processing could be in the cloud,

If all you want is cute control, sure. If you're depending on your lighting to work - do you REALLY want to be dependent on the internet?

[Cyknight]

2 hours ago, mod220 said:

no offense taken, like I said, I had to buy 3 AVRs for 3 TVs, and they each had 2 zone HEOS, so I got 6 zones of streaming audio for free, no complaints.   

So here is what it would like like complete:

Basement - EA1, 2 audio zones (contiguous)

Level 1 - EA3 - 3 "unique" audio zones (family/kitchen + living room + backyard)

Level 2 - EA 1, 2 zones contiguous

As far as total power, I have four Yale locks, 8 Reolink cameras (C4 compatible?), and 60 Lutron Caseta switches...EA-3 good to handle that?   

I'm not super familiar with Caseta so hard to judge what they require in 'C4 processing need' - but I would be surprised if you have any major issues on an EA-3, though it might be 'snappier' on an EA-5

[Elvis]

2 hours ago, mod220 said:

When would this be a factor?

It would not have to be a factor. But if you started streaming something from an AppleTV or Roku or ?? connected to the receiver via HDMI, and then wanted to hear it in another zone -- then it would be a factor.

Here's an example that applies to me. Kids are in town. They watch something on TV in the family room. When the shows over, they cue up the soundtrack or playlist based on what they were watching -- all on the AppleTV. Then they move over to the kitchen and switch the receiver to All Zone Stereo and it comes out the kitchen, too. Then they move outside and the music stops. Not powered by that receiver. I turn off the house, they cue it up on their phone and Airplay it to the porch. Not that big of a deal, but if the receiver powering the porch could play what is playing on the inside receiver, it would've been seamless.

[msgreenf]

sorry, what is the Heos question?