Upgrade Analog (Coax) to IP Camera - Worth-it? Approach?

[chudel]

Hello,

I have a Luma 501 NVR with 5 Analog exterior cameras.  The NVR itself seems to be getting a bit old (requires plugin support on a no-longer-supported browser).  I've been thinking of having an upgrade done early in the new year -- thoughts on the overall approach / cost to do this?  Would it be cheaper to use IP-over-coax or have the installers pull and redo with Cat5/6?  Should I continue with the Luma ecosystem?  What ballpark costs should I be looking at?  Let's assume I want to keep using my C4 system (which controls 2 TV rooms, 8 in-room speakers,, security, and about 30+ lights and 3 key panels).

Thanks!

[BraydonH]

The Luma ecosystem has been really disappointing lately.

Go with Unifi protect and the 3rd party drivers on Driver Central. The system is year and years ahead of Luma and at this point I really dont think Luma will ever catch up in terms of features. They would literally need to build a system from the ground up with all new hardware/softawre and such and they dont have the resources. Rebadging some Hik Gear and slapping their logo on it is about what the Luma team is capable of.

Luma cant even send push notifications when the cameras see motion (without a dedicated control4 system and 4sight, and even then everything needs to be manually programmed when its all basically automatic with better systems)

[chudel]

7 minutes ago, BraydonH said:

The Luma ecosystem has been really disappointing lately.

Go with Unifi protect and the 3rd party drivers on Driver Central. The system is year and years ahead of Luma and at this point I really dont think Luma will ever catch up in terms of features. They would literally need to build a system from the ground up with all new hardware/softawre and such and they dont have the resources. Rebadging some Hik Gear and slapping their logo on it is about what the Luma team is capable of.

Luma cant even send push notifications when the cameras see motion (without a dedicated control4 system and 4sight, and even then everything needs to be manually programmed when its all basically automatic with better systems)

Easy enough as I already have ubiquiti in the house - to the question of cabling, re-cable or use Ethernet-Over-Coax adapters?  I guess in the latter case, i would do this myself but in the former (pulling cable) -- I'd rather use a company who makes their living doing this sort of thing -- do you think a homeowner can contract cable pulling only for a residence? (vs. a dealer who would provide the cabling effort as part of the install package).

[zaphod]

You should be able to use an electrician of any sort to pull and terminate the CAT5/6 cable.  You probably want to go with Power over Ethernet (POE) and I don't think you can do that over coax.

The other option is to use any IP cameras and use Blue Iris. But you need to have a PC running Blue Iris but it integrates well with C4.

[BraydonH]

We pull Cat5e/RG6 cable for Analog cameras so you can switch to IP if you want in the future.

 

Did your guys pull coax and 16/2 speaker wire? If so there are adapters you can get. Or maybe they did pull cat5e like we always do even for analog cameras.

[chudel]

22 minutes ago, BraydonH said:

Did your guys pull coax and 16/2 speaker wire? If so there are adapters you can get. Or maybe they did pull cat5e like we always do even for analog cameras.

There's definitely some sort of power adapter also so maybe I've gotten lucky.  The cameras were put in about 8 years ago.  I didn't think to check the cable itself (d'oh!) so I'll doublecheck.  Thanks for the note! 

[ILoveC4]

It’s probably coax for signal and 16/2 for power. 
 

I second the recommendation of BlueIris. It’s inexpensive, incredibly robust and works with any camera. You’re not locked in to picking a camera from a certain line. 

[Cyknight]

10 hours ago, ILoveC4 said:

It’s probably coax for signal and 16/2 for power.

Ehh, we were pulling coax/cat twin wires 12 years ago, so it's certainly worth checking.

At any rate, there's 2-wire POE option out there for a quick change over, and unless it's an easy run, likely the cheapest way of changing over (if there's no CAT)

[homeauto01]

I am about to do the same thing.  I have a Luna 500 with 4 exterior cameras that I want to upgrade.

Is it a general consensus that the Unifi Protect system is the best way to go?  I don't want to break the bank but I want a great video quality, hassle free, reliable camera system and NVR.  I will spend some money if I need to.

[BraydonH]

43 minutes ago, homeauto01 said:

I will spend some money if I need to.

Then absolutely get Unifi. The cameras are expensive but worth it.

Summary of why it kicks so much ass

-App is amazing, best ive ever used. This can't be understated enough. Compared to any other app the Unifi protect app is better

-You can just go to unifi.ubnt.com and view cams on any PC using any browser without compatibility issues

-Cameras have a ton of smart features, Line detection, person/object recognition, smart events, list goes on

-Records audio as well

-No monthly fees

-Push Notifications without C4 or 4sight. Ability to customize the push notifications how you want.

-So easy to pull footage off and share with friends. This is almost impossible with Luma as when you pull the footage off it will be unplayable unless you convert them with crappy 3rd party software. Then you really need to be techy to upload the encrypted files to something like VLC and then spend the time to convert them all to a playable file format. It takes forever. I have around 30 luma systems out on the field and I honestly don't even think a single time in history has any customer ever successfully pulled the footage off all by themselves without involving me or making me do it for them. Its a pain in the ass and at the end of the day they phone me every single time they need the footage pulled off.

-Unifi is ALWAYS improving and adding new features. It took the snap team 4 months just to fix Luma Link remote access when it went down. Luma is painfully slow with any new feature or updates. If you use a Dream Machine Pro then you get an amazing network as well

-Cinegration Driver is mint. (Worth it)

Cons - Camera selection is very limited (have to use unifi cams), they are pricey, and they dont make a sweet dome camera - all they really have is bullet cams which can be trickier to install and look less aesthetically pleasing.

 

Is it worth the extra cost over anything else on the market. ABSOLUTELY. There is no question there. 

You already wasted some money on a system that needed an upgrade in a short amount of time. Do it right this time and don't make the same mistake twice.

Get the G3 Pro, or if you really wanna do it up get the G4 Pro. Don't get any of the non pro cameras.

Oh and also the Unifi doorbell is great too. Better than Ring or Nest in my opinion (havent tried the new C4 Chime so cant compare to that)

[homeauto01]

37 minutes ago, BraydonH said:

Then absolutely get Unifi. The cameras are expensive but worth it.

 

Thanks for that comprehensive answer.

[homeauto01]

I see some people are reporting problems with condensation in the G3 cameras.  Does this seem to be a real issue?

[Cyknight]

FYI, the G3 cams are rated down to -20 to 50 C or -4 to 122 F (wouldn't be a great choice out here )and have NO official IP rating.

 

This may not be an issue, but something to be aware of - indeed I'm not comfortable providing outdoor equipment if it's not rated....

[homeauto01]

I think I would stick with the G3 Pro cams which are IP67 rated so they should be GTG correct?  But some reviews on Amazon indicated condensation problems??

[Amr]

On 12/9/2020 at 4:49 PM, chudel said:

Hello,

I have a Luma 501 NVR with 5 Analog exterior cameras.  The NVR itself seems to be getting a bit old (requires plugin support on a no-longer-supported browser).  I've been thinking of having an upgrade done early in the new year -- thoughts on the overall approach / cost to do this?  Would it be cheaper to use IP-over-coax or have the installers pull and redo with Cat5/6?  Should I continue with the Luma ecosystem?  What ballpark costs should I be looking at?  Let's assume I want to keep using my C4 system (which controls 2 TV rooms, 8 in-room speakers,, security, and about 30+ lights and 3 key panels).

Thanks!

I know its a late answer but I used these devices to hook up 2 analog Cameras I didn’t want to change now till they breaks!

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CVW4JCS/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_imm_t1_hjO4Fb0HPD0C3?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

 

[chudel]

Thanks for all the help. Looks like about $75/camera to keep coax and convert to PoE ethernet at the ends.  So unless the installer charges less than $375 to replace coax w/ cat-5/6 cabling, I'll go that route.