customer

[customer]

Dear all,

Allow me to briefly introduce myself /ourselves as victims of this system. I am just a simple user so excuse me if I do not use the right terminology to describe the 7-year struggle/journey we have had so far with this system in our house.  I hope you will still get the message though.

 

As we live in a 4 storey house where there are about 20 rooms, pool, garden, floor heating etc. we though having a so called smart home might help us to have things under control and run everything smoothly. Unfortunately, the opposite is truth.

Issues started from the very beginning. Being aware of the size of the house and being told we are putting in the best of the best, we were very patient for 3 years. However, no change after 3 years; one thing fixed, the other went wrong. Never-ending story. So, the company appointed a technician, who was coming once a week for a whole day to monitor all the actions of the system trying to find out where the problem lies. In vain.

Our present reality:

There are 7 TVs in this house. Once the technician comes and restarts things, he has to go to every single room to make sure that every single TV is working = complete violation of privacy.

There are speakers in most rooms – ditto.  The same applies to heating and cooling.

We also had a 2-day audit with the C4 Technical Support Manager in our house and they did not really figure out what was wrong.

AC units – every single season they either: do not work, we cannot not switch them off or they live their own existence i.e. going on/off as they wish and your simple remote control will not help you as the C4 system overrides them.

The pool temperature control got stuck and our pool was heated to 40 degrees twice!

The Video door bell has been fixed and restarted about 20 times – not kidding – counted the emails I sent to the company.

Because we had continuous problems with lighting, the company now suggested putting the KNX system in and they are working on it. 5 weeks of people in the house to get this done!!!

I must say that the reviews are very positive but again, now instead of having two technicians, one in charge of AV/TV and the other one of the Heating system, in addition, I have the third one in charge of KNX. So now I actually have three hotlines instead of two.

 

So if you want to spend your life living with the following, have C4 installed:

- A dealer having approximately 90% (at least in our case) control of your house – you are dependent on them and stuck with them for life

- Ordinary technician/electricians cannot do it

- You need a ‘specialist’ to program/fix/check/redo things and it costs you

- Your own total lack of control of your own place

- Not being able to make even basic changes to lighting, heating, temperature, AV/TV in the system etc.

- Constant updates

- Regularly people coming over going up and down through your place to check if things are working once they have been fixed or restarted

- You can cancel the dealer’s permission for a remote access to your place but you will have to let them in again if something goes wrong or otherwise they have to come in person = Catch 22

- If you saw our rack, it looks like the one in a tube station, you cannot just restart your switches if anything gets stuck, there are so many of them that you just don’t know  

- Truth be told, the only things that do not really act up are the irrigation system, cameras and alarm but do you really need one of the most expensive ‘smart’ systems to run these?

 

Sincerely, 2 of my friends are building their new houses so I gave them a friendly warning not to have this thing installed.  I also spoke to our architect, showed him around explaining things and he admitted we are not the first one of his customers experiencing such issues. 2 more neighbours in our street have the same issues and they have completely different companies running it for them

 

So basically after 7 years of on&off struggles, I must say I cannot see the light at the end of the tunnel. I hope things will improve a bit with KNX but the worst part of our reality is, that you cannot get rid of this thing. As it has already been mentioned on this forum, we would have to rewire/rebuild the whole house.

Honestly, after all this time I must say there is nothing you can say to persuade me that this system is normal and user friendly. I do not call it smart, I call it retarded.  

To conclude, I only wish I had Harry Potter’s magic wand so that I could make it vanish from our house.

Regards,

A super desperate user.

[ILoveC4]

Give me your address and I’ll send someone over to remove it. 
 

I only read the first and last paragraphs, but if the system isn’t working it’s on your integrator. The hardware and software are great when setup properly. 

[C4 User]

If what you say is accurate, why have you put up with this for 7 years? And why are you still putting up with it? It is probably time to get a new dealer involved and to even get a lawyer involved to force your current dealer to cover the cost of having a new dealer fix your system. Honestly, you the homeowner are the problem here. I was taught at a young age to expect what I tolerate. Stop tolerating such poor performance.

[eggzlot]

1) bad programming

2) bad networking

3) get savant

only 3 answers I got before my morning caffeine  

if you think you are trapped read about remote dealers and / or research composer Home Edition.

what region of the world are you in as well?

 

[-defunct-]

Out of curiosity, what thermostats were used for that large of a heating/cooling system?

What pool controller do you have?

What model of video doorbell do you have?

Sorry for your experience, most, if not all, of your complaints would change if you found a dealer and professional you trusted.

If I had that big of a house, I think I'd have more important things to do than tinker with my smart system and would be hiring it out to someone I trust even though I am very technical and could do it myself. Time is limited, so it should be spent wisely.

[South Africa C4 user]

Wow! Sounds like a terrible experience.  If your description is accurate… change your dealer and do it today.  Sorry, but the recommendation on moving to KNX lighting is crazy. Nothing wrong with KNX but one of Control4’s biggest strengths is their lighting.

My houses are similar to yours (but 3 floors not 4) in terms of integration (plus a lot more - which you may well also have and not have mentioned) and my Control4 setup is extremely stable except where I tinker :-).

I hope we see you back and this is not simply a trolling exercise.

Change your dealer and you will change your experience.  You should only have one Control4 contact - not 3!

[ekohn00]

As a user myself for 14 years or so, all I could say is stop spending money with this dealer!!!!! As around here for recommendations for some of the dealers, either in your area or maybe get a remote one that can take a look.

 

 

 

[customer]

Dear all,

 

Thank you for all your super quick responses; I really appreciate them. It seems like they all point to the company being not very competent.

As I said before, I am just a simple user so in order to answer some of your technical questions I had to ask my husband and the company.

Well, as to the lights, here is the first answer I got, excuse me being not technically precise if that is the case: The lighting control in the house was BTicino My home. The BTicino My home drivers wound not turn on certain light (which we picked after the system was installed). I order to drive these lights we used DALI driver, which was run through WAGO. What I understand that these two stopped somehow working when C4 restarted. They say KNX will drive the lights directly.

I am expecting the answers on the pool controller, video doorbell from our technicians.

And we are based in the Czech Republic.

Many thanks!

[OceanDad]

Just wait until the next dealer tells him that all his equipment is end of life, and he really needs to upgrade his controllers, door station etc.

I lived in the Czech Republic for several years.  We had a word for this.  Czechnology.

[South Africa C4 user]

1 hour ago, OceanDad said:

Just wait until the next dealer tells him that all his equipment is end of life, and he really needs to upgrade his controllers, door station etc.

I lived in the Czech Republic for several years.  We had a word for this.  Czechnology.

That is an interesting point…

@customer- what Controllers do you have for this 20 room, 7 TV house?

[customer]

I will find out and let you know.

Just to add, the company we picked is certified and authorized by C4 Company. Plus they put their system in hundreds of flats in residential projects every year. Then what is the C4's system of checks and balances to make sure that their official dealers will not do a sloppy job? Where is my guarantee that the next ‘authorized’ dealer I pick is not going to be even worse?

Still, I find the premise of being so dependent on a company to run your place just nonsensical. In the past, people lived in big houses and were ok without any smart households. I just think this was a wrong choice for us.

[customer]

BTW - I love the 'Czechnology' :0))))

[eggzlot]

1 hour ago, customer said:

I will find out and let you know.

Just to add, the company we picked is certified and authorized by C4 Company. Plus they put their system in hundreds of flats in residential projects every year. Then what is the C4's system of checks and balances to make sure that their official dealers will not do a sloppy job? Where is my guarantee that the next ‘authorized’ dealer I pick is not going to be even worse?

Still, I find the premise of being so dependent on a company to run your place just nonsensical. In the past, people lived in big houses and were ok without any smart households. I just think this was a wrong choice for us.

What’s the guarantee your electrician or plumber will be good?  What about your car mechanic?  Did you get any referrals on the C4 dealer from their current customers with a house/project your size?

[customer]

There is never guarantee; not even with your president. I am not sure about comparing an electrician, plumber or a car mechanic to someone certified by one of the most prominent companies in this field. And did we get any referrals whether they had done houses of our size before, yes we did. That's why I am trying to figure out what went so wrong in our place. And that's why I appreciate every input/brainstorming. I want to make sure that by putting KNX in, the history will not repeat itself.

Interesting, but nobody commented on my explanation of the lights yet. Does that make any sense to you?

Thank you!

[-defunct-]

Dealers serving the Czech Republic likely report up through EMEA. I would be surprised if your dealer works direct with Control4's sales managers.

In Europe, KNX is likely the best lighting system you can get with compatibility with Control4 besides Control4 branded lighting.

[eggzlot]

22 minutes ago, customer said:

There is never guarantee; not even with your president. I am not sure about comparing an electrician, plumber or a car mechanic to someone certified by one of the most prominent companies in this field. And did we get any referrals whether they had done houses of our size before, yes we did. That's why I am trying to figure out what went so wrong in our place. And that's why I appreciate every input/brainstorming. I want to make sure that by putting KNX in, the history will not repeat itself.

Interesting, but nobody commented on my explanation of the lights yet. Does that make any sense to you?

Thank you!

Not sure why you are getting political on a tech forum.  American politics have been screwed up for decades no matter what side of the fence you sit on - but then again so are most countries so we aren’t any different.

The referrals all have a smooth system?  If so something doesnt add up.  Either they used different hardware systems in the project, had a different tech assigned to their project, etc.  Control4 hardware works, its the programming or networking that usually sends things sideways.

And yes I know there are no guarantees but here in American you can go to a Honda dealership and get your car serviced, doesn’t mean Honda is training each of those people - the dealerships are franchises aka independent businesses paying for the Honda name.  So some tech’s may be good, others may be awful.  Same with C4 - they are independent companies using the C4 name.  I am sure C4 does some check ups and if they get numerous complaints may pull a license, but in general it would be impossible for C4 to oversee every install/every dealer.  Here in the States there is a Customer Advocacy group you can speak to when you call C4 headquarters - wonder if they have such a service over in Europe.

[customer]

Not getting political at all. My apologies if you had that feeling. It was just a simple linguistic comparison. I am a very apolitical person and I really don't know much about the US politics as I am in Europe.  I assume you are right on the point where C4 cannot oversee every dealer. I don't think we have any Customer Advocacy Group as you do in the USA. I am looking for help here, not more critisism. Thank you.

[C4 User]

The best help we can give you is to find a new dealer. Your dealer has not served you well for 7 years based on all you said in your original post above. It sounds like your dealer chose a mismatch of hardware during the original install. That said, a lot has changed in 7 years and not knowing the Czech hardware options I cannot speak to the original lighting choice or any of the other hardware selections. But today there are many HVAC, Doorstation, pool, and TV integration options that did not exist 7 years ago.

If you like your current dealer, which it sounds like you do, then start by telling them you do not want to be so reliant on them for a working system and let them suggest ALL the hardware changes they recommend today to ensure you have a reliable system. You may or may not accept the price of updating your system, but based on what you describe, there is no reason why you should not be able to get to a reliable C4 smart home.

As a reference, unless i want to make changes to my system, I can go years without needing to call my dealer. Now that said, my entire system including rack, all networking, and even tv’s are on battery backup. Nothing in my system reboots unless I want it to reboot.

[customer]

Dear C4 User and all,

Thank you for your answer and all the other answers.

There are two points in your last post that really caught my attention, in my layman's understanding:

1: mismatch of hardware

2: I can go years without needing to call my dealer = that's my dream come true

As our dealer is coming back tomorrow to continue with their KNX work, I will show them the post in this forum and I am curious to see what they have to say. It is always beneficial to get a second opinion. 

I will also try to get answers to some of your technical questions - once I have posted them, I will appreciate in case you answer; I will understand if you do not. Every little helps & life is a learning curve.

 

Thank  you again for all your inputs.