Volume Up Up Up... Boom

[brucecampbell]

I'm outside listening to the radio.
I open the app on my iphone and hit volume up.
Volume ramps up, and up, and up then silence.

I go take a look at the receiver - the ir bud is still flashing, the amp is in 'protection mode'
I turn the volume down manually using the dial.
The ir bud is still flashing and the volume goes up again.

Only once I do a 'room off' does it stop.

I reboot the controller and test again.
Volume up never stops....

I reboot the controller and get the project restored.
Now it all works like normal again.....

Except for my speakers, I think they have blown, I've not fully tested hem yet as they are outdoors and it has not stopped raining...

Anyone ever experience this?
 

And no, there is no extra programming to handle volume on this zone.

[C4 User]

Many years ago. But not recently. But the very reason I set the max volume for each zone to a level the speakers and amp can handle. 

[chopedogg88]

I've seen this before. Usually force closing the control4 app on my mobile device fixes it. 

[Andrew luecke]

What driver is it? It could be a bug in the driver itself.

[brucecampbell]

21 hours ago, C4 User said:

Many years ago. But not recently. But the very reason I set the max volume for each zone to a level the speakers and amp can handle. 

I was unaware of this option, I'll have to look into it further.

Thanks.

[brucecampbell]

19 hours ago, chopedogg88 said:

I've seen this before. Usually force closing the control4 app on my mobile device fixes it. 

So you think it is the app on the phone?
I should have tried volume control on the remote as a debug....

First time I've ever seen it happen.

[brucecampbell]

15 hours ago, Andrew luecke said:

What driver is it? It could be a bug in the driver itself.

The driver is Sony STR-DB840, though from memory some IR codes were edited to work with the actual device Sony STR-DB930

It's been working with no issues for about 6+ years.

I've not had any updates to the system in quite a while too.

[Andrew luecke]

Just now, brucecampbell said:

The driver is Sony STR-DB840, though from memory some IR codes were edited to work with the actual device Sony STR-DB930

It's been working with no issues for about 6+ years.

I've not had any updates to the system in quite a while too.

What OS version are you running? Really really old versions of OS 3 I recall had this issue too

[brucecampbell]

1 hour ago, Andrew luecke said:

What OS version are you running? Really really old versions of OS 3 I recall had this issue too

3.2.2

[Andrew luecke]

2 minutes ago, brucecampbell said:

3.2.2

The volume bugs I recall, if I'm correct were on MUCH MUCH older releases (pre 3.1.0, and 3.2.2 definitely should not be affected). In all likelihood, I suspect in your case, its a driver bug.. It could have also have been a network issue (so the stop IR command may never have been received)

[brucecampbell]

1 hour ago, Andrew luecke said:

What OS version are you running? Really really old versions of OS 3 I recall had this issue too

Is it worth getting the system updated to 3.3?

[Andrew luecke]

12 minutes ago, brucecampbell said:

Is it worth getting the system updated to 3.3?

Unlikely to be the problem, but OS 3.3.1 is awesome, especially if you have lighting

[brucecampbell]

5 minutes ago, Andrew luecke said:

Unlikely to be the problem, but OS 3.3.1 is awesome, especially if you have lighting

Thanks, I'll look into getting this done.

[C4 User]

2 hours ago, brucecampbell said:

I was unaware of this option, I'll have to look into it further.

Thanks.

I have AudioControl matrix amps and theater pre-amp. My amps have volume limits which I can’t override without going into the amp setup directly. I’m not sure C4 has a limit setting. 

[Amr]

5 hours ago, brucecampbell said:

Thanks, I'll look into getting this done.

You need to make sure the IR repeat cods on the driver is not set to the default “5” edit the driver and have all commands “2” or “1”!

In my home as I use CAT6 cables to deliver IR around the house all IR commands are set to 1 anything more than that produces the issues you are complaining from.

[brucecampbell]

12 hours ago, Amr said:

You need to make sure the IR repeat cods on the driver is not set to the default “5” edit the driver and have all commands “2” or “1”!

In my home as I use CAT6 cables to deliver IR around the house all IR commands are set to 1 anything more than that produces the issues you are complaining from.

Thanks for the info, I'll get this checked out.

From memory, the increment on the volume is quite big on each click, so it probably is set to 5.

[brucecampbell]

18 hours ago, Andrew luecke said:

Unlikely to be the problem, but OS 3.3.1 is awesome, especially if you have lighting

Any hardware limitations for this OS?

I'm assuming since I'm running 3.2, that my HC800 will be ok running 3.3.1??

[brucecampbell]

8 minutes ago, brucecampbell said:

Any hardware limitations for this OS?

I'm assuming since I'm running 3.2, that my HC800 will be ok running 3.3.1??

Never mind, I just found this posted.... 

• C4 HC800 Controller cannot update to 3.3.1. Systems using this controller must stay on OS 3.3.0 or below.

[Andrew luecke]

12 minutes ago, brucecampbell said:

Any hardware limitations for this OS?

I'm assuming since I'm running 3.2, that my HC800 will be ok running 3.3.1??

Maximum you can run on a hc800 is 3.3.0. 3.3.1 and later releases will never be supported (I recommend upgrading controller, preferably to core5 if you have a large system. They're even more powerful than they appear in the specs honestly).

Apparently a lot of the new things they added in 3.3.1 cannot work on the 10 year old HC800 (which is running a 12 year old processor)

[brucecampbell]

4 hours ago, Andrew luecke said:

Maximum you can run on a hc800 is 3.3.0. 3.3.1 and later releases will never be supported (I recommend upgrading controller, preferably to core5 if you have a large system. They're even more powerful than they appear in the specs honestly).

Apparently a lot of the new things they added in 3.3.1 cannot work on the 10 year old HC800 (which is running a 12 year old processor)

Thanks,

I'll get there one day, but right now it is just too expensive.

I run two HC800's with the 'slave' giving me 4 additional contacts and relays and I also use some of the additional IR outputs and audio for a third receiver.
Add to that the high price of C4 gear in New Zealand, along with the ridiculous cost of food, fuel and services here currently, it's not a priority....

[brucecampbell]

Does anyone know if Control4 has a policy or insurance that would help me out here?

Any thoughts on who to contact to ask?

 

Thanks.

[msgreenf]

Insurance? What? 

[brucecampbell]

3 hours ago, msgreenf said:

Insurance? What? 

It's a serious question.

I use the C4 app, it works incorrectly damaging my property. 

If it happened while my installer was here putting everything together I'd be expecting new speakers to turn up without question.

It's happened 5 years after the zone was installed, but it still happened...

 

[Andrew luecke]

6 hours ago, brucecampbell said:

Does anyone know if Control4 has a policy or insurance that would help me out here?

Any thoughts on who to contact to ask?

 

Thanks.

I very much doubt if they had it, it would apply to this case unfortunately.  Whilst the IR repeating may have been the trigger for the speakers being damaged, it isn't the root factor. There are also a range of other potential causes including: 

1. Users manually setting the volume too high (we had a few customers who blew up their speakers themselves by turning them up too loud). C4 sits on top of this layer, so, they could still be blown up independently of C4. Equipment should be set up with hardware limits to reduce risk of damage externally
2. Buggy driver. Control4 didn't necessarily write the driver (it could have been written and tested by the manufacturer themselves). It might also not even be a certified driver, or it may have been signed off by the manufacturer as working. That being said very few modern receivers use IR, so just wondering what receiver you were using? In fact, the driver may have been created by the installer. 
3. Network issues. If the network is flaky, it can cause the END_IR command to never be transmitted properly.
4. Old C4 OS version (this isn't the factor in your case)
5. Speaker limits not set (although, very few installers set these). C4 should never be in a position it should be able to damage equipment (for blinds for example, we normally use hardware interlocks to prevent blinds having open and closed turned on simultaneously).  
6. If the speakers are swapped at any point with other speakers, the limits might also be wrong.
7. It could also be argued, that the speaker manufacturer is at fault partially, because the speakers might not have had overload protection
8. It could also be argued that the speakers were using an overpowered amp  

I haven't seen any known issues in 3.2 with IR, so, I don't think this is caused by a bug in C4 OS itself either. In fact, when I last saw an issue with volume, it was solely isolated to TV's (and was possibly a bug on those TV drivers.. Either way, your OS is far newer). 

Ultimately, it sucks the speakers might be blown, but, there are lots of factors. Ultimately though, a hardware limit should have probably have been set (although, admittedly, as an installer, I don't ever recall doing this myself on my own jobs). 

Also, maybe switch to serial / IP, as the experience tends to be better. 

[brucecampbell]

19 hours ago, Andrew luecke said:

Ultimately, it sucks the speakers might be blown, but, there are lots of factors. Ultimately though, a hardware limit should have probably have been set (although, admittedly, as an installer, I don't ever recall doing this myself on my own jobs). 

Thanks for your input Andrew.

Yep, sure does suck  
The speakers cost about the same as my insurance excess, so not even worth claiming.

19 hours ago, Andrew luecke said:

Also, maybe switch to serial / IP, as the experience tends to be better. 

One day I might be in a position to upgrade all my hardware..... I'm running three receivers none of which have IP or serial control - all are IR.
And I'm pretty sure none of them have volume limits available to set either.

One of the selling points for C4 when I bought in 13 years ago was the flexibility to use almost any existing hardware. I'm not one to upgrade, I only replace once it stops working.