Araknis Multi-Gig Routers

[GregCAMS]

Has anyone had any experience yet with the Araknis muti-gig routers?  I have a 1Gbps service at present and have had occasional (not super-frequent) system lockups with my 310 series router over the past 12-15 months.  I'm looking at having a system analysis/design review potentially to improve the network and make preparations for upgrading to multi-gig service now that it is finally available in my area along with upgrading to WIFI 6 o 6e.  I currently have multiple (11) Araknis switches, 3 Araknis Wifi 5 access points, the 310 router and Motorola 8600 modem.  Looking for opinions, experience in best practice on this.  The work would be done by an integrator but want other opinions before I go down the route of either keeping the current switches and adding the needed items, switching to something like Netgear with Domotz integration to C4, Using Ruckus AP's, etc.  Thanks in advance!

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[Matt Lowe]

the router yes especially for multi-gig wan. The Primary switch yes, especially if the other secondary switches have SFP you could do 4 other primary switches with a better connection on SFP.  Any waps and any other high-output devices should be on the primary multigig. If the rest of the switches will fit on the primary it would be best. If any other switches have to go on a secondary switch it should be one of the ones connected with sfp. If you need more 2.5gig devices connected than what one 24 port can handle simply add a second. Leave the rest of the switches alone assuming nothing has the ability to use multi-gig. 

[Cyknight]

Router, yes. Core switch, most likely. Anything after that really depends on the need. If your APs support 2.5 or more (not sure what Ruckus has at the moment, do know the new x20 series APs have it from Araknis) then you'll want to ensure their path has it all the way so you'd have to update every switch in line to have it.

As always, going to be a question of cost vs benefit.

To me, I'd put in all 2.5/10 and SPF quads in wherever possible (ie wiring supports it) if your upgrading anyway: but I wouldn't by default say you'd need to upgrade right now just to get it.

If getting internet service over 1Gb, often youll find just changing the router and the core switch (especially if it breaks out to other switches) will be sufficient

[lippavisual]

IMO, Unless you’re hosting your own servers, I don’t see the need for upgrading your ISP speed.  1GB is plenty sufficient for 98% of homes.

Now upgrading your LAN, that all depends on your internal needs.

[msgreenf]

500 MB is plenty for most.

[GregCAMS]

46 minutes ago, msgreenf said:

500 MB is plenty for most.

 

51 minutes ago, lippavisual said:

IMO, Unless you’re hosting your own servers, I don’t see the need for upgrading your ISP speed.  1GB is plenty sufficient for 98% of homes.

Now upgrading your LAN, that all depends on your internal needs.

Thanks for that feedback.  At present running 3 servers

1 - Nucleus Core for Roon

1 - Synology NAS 40TB for photos

1 - Synology NAS 32TB for work/business items between 3 PCs.  Also used for Time Machine backups

[msgreenf]

Still 500 MB is plenty. 

[Cyknight]

2 hours ago, GregCAMS said:

At present running 3 servers

Those aren't really servers, certainly don't account for internet traffic servers. We'd be talking servers for hosting domains, be they web domains/servers or game domains/servers

3 hours ago, lippavisual said:

IMO, Unless you’re hosting your own servers, I don’t see the need for upgrading your ISP speed.  1GB is plenty sufficient for 98% of homes

 

2 hours ago, msgreenf said:

500 MB is plenty. 

I would certainly agree with both of you here, like I said, I certainly don't suggest upgrading for the sake of it.

 

 

[ekohn00]

11 hours ago, GregCAMS said:

 

Thanks for that feedback.  At present running 3 servers

1 - Nucleus Core for Roon

1 - Synology NAS 40TB for photos

1 - Synology NAS 32TB for work/business items between 3 PCs.  Also used for Time Machine backups

If you're working from home and sending files (especially larger ones), I'm all in for more Internet speed...depending on where you are, it can be relatively cheap and makes a big difference.

HOWEVER, most a lot of "home" routers are a bottleneck - check your internet speed, if you're not getting nearly 1G now, upgrading beyond 1G may be limited on your router. When I went to 1G fios I had to change my unifi router, got the UDM-PRO and wouldn't be able to use it for more than 1G. If FIOS ever goes 2G in my area i'll probably go DIY FW.

And if your NAS & PCs support 10G....it makes a difference moving files around a LOT faster and a nice core for the 2.5G WIFI connections.

The Roon stream isn't much BW to worry about (Shout out I love the new ARC in the car).

 

 

[lippavisual]

Ya, sounds like not much that needs to leave your home.

If you wanted to upgrade your LAN, then I wouldn’t bother with 2.5GB stuff, go right to 10GB devices.  Most of them have at least 6-12 ports of 2.5GB capable.

[GregCAMS]

2 hours ago, ekohn00 said:

If you're working from home and sending files (especially larger ones), I'm all in for more Internet speed...depending on where you are, it can be relatively cheap and makes a big difference.

HOWEVER, most a lot of "home" routers are a bottleneck - check your internet speed, if you're not getting nearly 1G now, upgrading beyond 1G may be limited on your router. When I went to 1G fios I had to change my unifi router, got the UDM-PRO and wouldn't be able to use it for more than 1G. If FIOS ever goes 2G in my area i'll probably go DIY FW.

And if your NAS & PCs support 10G....it makes a difference moving files around a LOT faster and a nice core for the 2.5G WIFI connections.

The Roon stream isn't much BW to worry about (Shout out I love the new ARC in the car).

 

 

Thanks for that insight.  I have 4 employees with my business that access the business Synology NAS via quickconnect that work from it daily from their homes or at the client job site.  So they hit the NAS daily, multiple times per day.  For the photo NAS that is primarily myself and the wife locally and then one family member that lives out of state to access and download files to their local system.  Beyond that it's just the A/V items that are the internal traffic and streaming via YouTube TV on multiple Apple TVs.  The Kaleidescape is averaging about 750Mbps download speeds.  Wifi for regular connections on 5GHz avg 275-300 

Got Roon about 2 years ago and also loving the Roon ARC as well!

[GregCAMS]

2 hours ago, lippavisual said:

Ya, sounds like not much that needs to leave your home.

If you wanted to upgrade your LAN, then I wouldn’t bother with 2.5GB stuff, go right to 10GB devices.  Most of them have at least 6-12 ports of 2.5GB capable.

Thanks - had considered some of the Netgear AV Router 10GB option and their switches but wasn't sure of impacts to what I currently have and with essentially everything currently be tied into OvrC (i'm not a DIY'er).  I saw that switching everything to Netgear could be managed with Domotz and integrated into C4 but wasn't sure if that would open up a can of  potential problems

[msgreenf]

Honestly upload speeds are more important then download speeds for your use case 

[ekohn00]

1 hour ago, GregCAMS said:

Thanks for that insight.  I have 4 employees with my business that access the business Synology NAS via quickconnect that work from it daily from their homes or at the client job site.  So they hit the NAS daily, multiple times per day.  For the photo NAS that is primarily myself and the wife locally and then one family member that lives out of state to access and download files to their local system.  Beyond that it's just the A/V items that are the internal traffic and streaming via YouTube TV on multiple Apple TVs.  The Kaleidescape is averaging about 750Mbps download speeds.  Wifi for regular connections on 5GHz avg 275-300 

Got Roon about 2 years ago and also loving the Roon ARC as well!

That KSCAPE is another reason for the faster internet.  For those nights you have to DL before watching it will definitely save a lot of time!

[ekohn00]

1 hour ago, GregCAMS said:

Thanks for that insight.  I have 4 employees with my business that access the business Synology NAS via quickconnect that work from it daily from their homes or at the client job site.  So they hit the NAS daily, multiple times per day.  For the photo NAS that is primarily myself and the wife locally and then one family member that lives out of state to access and download files to their local system.  Beyond that it's just the A/V items that are the internal traffic and streaming via YouTube TV on multiple Apple TVs.  The Kaleidescape is averaging about 750Mbps download speeds.  Wifi for regular connections on 5GHz avg 275-300 

Got Roon about 2 years ago and also loving the Roon ARC as well!

I have a similar use case. For ME I went 10G between the NASes, Servers, and my PC. The router is also connected to the 10G and out of the WAN via 1G. Unfortunately for photos, my wife is suffering through wifi.

my roon files are on a NAS, and the 10G makes a difference  - especially if I edit metadata of files.

 

[GregCAMS]

15 minutes ago, ekohn00 said:

I have a similar use case. For ME I went 10G between the NASes, Servers, and my PC. The router is also connected to the 10G and out of the WAN via 1G. Unfortunately for photos, my wife is suffering through wifi.

my roon files are on a NAS, and the 10G makes a difference  - especially if I edit metadata of files.

 

what gear are you using specifically?  Yeah for KScape I'm almost ready to get a Terra Prime and would benefit from the 4 minute download speeds purported and evidenced on that user forum by people that already have the units

[ekohn00]

21 minutes ago, GregCAMS said:

what gear are you using specifically?  Yeah for KScape I'm almost ready to get a Terra Prime and would benefit from the 4 minute download speeds purported and evidenced on that user forum by people that already have the units

I'm using all Unifi these days. works nicely for me.

I always loved KScape, it just got far too expensive for me. I started back before BR discs and was spending $1K per TB....   went to Plex and never looked back. But do love KScape!

[msgreenf]

43 minutes ago, ekohn00 said:

I have a similar use case. For ME I went 10G between the NASes, Servers, and my PC. The router is also connected to the 10G and out of the WAN via 1G. Unfortunately for photos, my wife is suffering through wifi.

my roon files are on a NAS, and the 10G makes a difference  - especially if I edit metadata of files.

 

There is next to no reason you need 10G

[ekohn00]

8 minutes ago, msgreenf said:

There is next to no reason you need 10G

there is. a big difference if you are moving files or even updating metadata (especially adding album covers).  I didn't do 10G just for roon, but it does make a difference on certain use cases.

As for steaming, there's no difference. (unless i had a few hundred users).

should add, just because it still works on 1G doesn't mean you don't need 10G......  heck it works on FE....

 

[fleon]

So, talked with the Araknis guys last week.  The new 10g switches don't seem to make a lot of sense, and even the engineers agreed with me - their interconnects are only 100g.  This makes anything over 24 ports a nightmare for 10g.    They need an interconnected backplane if they are serious about 10g being useful for real networking. 

In any event, I can't see much use for a 10G connection right now outside of 4:4:4 or 8k.    The switches also have some compatibility issues.  So I don't really see the value for most people right now.

 

[chopedogg88]

Yeah I think they built those for the new MOIP stuff mostly. 

[fleon]

Yeah, they did.  However, the interconnect design is a real issue.

 

[ekohn00]

4 hours ago, fleon said:

Yeah, they did.  However, the interconnect design is a real issue.

 

10g non-blocking switches with a lot of ports are ungodly expensive.  You won’t see them in homes or most businesses any time soon. 

[AHA]

4 hours ago, fleon said:

So, talked with the Araknis guys last week.  The new 10g switches don't seem to make a lot of sense, and even the engineers agreed with me - their interconnects are only 100g.  This makes anything over 24 ports a nightmare for 10g.    They need an interconnected backplane if they are serious about 10g being useful for real networking. 

In any event, I can't see much use for a 10G connection right now outside of 4:4:4 or 8k.    The switches also have some compatibility issues.  So I don't really see the value for most people right now.

 

The 100g ports work fine with 4x 10g or 4x 25g QSFP+ breakouts. I'm running with these https://www.fs.com/uk/products/17931.html

[fleon]

17 hours ago, ekohn00 said:

10g non-blocking switches with a lot of ports are ungodly expensive.  You won’t see them in homes or most businesses any time soon. 

See - that's my point.  These are residential switches designed for MOIP.  However, the lack a backplane (like you would find in a high-end commercial switch) which lets them reliably go beyond the 24 ports they have.   Commercial switches have that - these don't.  This is a product line with a lot of engineering drawbacks.  They don't have the high-end features you need for 10g, and they aren't big enough to be useful for any of my clients that might consider spending 7-11k for a switch.