Best option for LED light strips

[obas]

@LollerAgent Ok, thanks. You are control4 end user as well, right, not a dealer or integrator? Did you install all your light fixtures and LED strips, or does the C4 integrator mostly do this? For programming the scenes, can you do that yourself using Composer HE (another thing I need to learn)? 

[LollerAgent]

1 hour ago, obas said:

@LollerAgent Ok, thanks. You are control4 end user as well, right, not a dealer or integrator? Did you install all your light fixtures and LED strips, or does the C4 integrator mostly do this? For programming the scenes, can you do that yourself using Composer HE (another thing I need to learn)? 

I'm not a dealer.  I did all of my DMX work (wiring, installation, etc) myself -- though you will need a dealer to install the driver(s).  Yeah - you can program scenes and such yourself using HE once the driver(s) are installed.

[obas]

@LollerAgentok thanks, good job   I'm really interested in doing it myself, especially when I want to add more lights in my backyard in the future. It will be cheaper than something like Philips Hue, right, where every outdoor fixtures is early $160+ . Did you also install outdoor lighting? Any recommendation on where to get RGB pot/spot/washers? How did you get familiar with DMX, youtube videos? Apologies for being so nosy

[Cyknight]

DMX does voltage control of the lights. so any light that has individual leads for RGB (and W, or W times however many, or just W, or just a single colour whatever it may be) and operates on a voltage that a DMX decoder can handle (this commonly ranges from 12v to 48v) can simply be hooked up.

Simply put, a dmx decoder takes dmx commands, and translates those to 255 steps on the negative out put on a low voltage line per channel it has. nothing more, nothing less.

And yes, you can do the whole DMX side DIY just fine, but I would suggest you work with a dealer on what engine you use at the back end (front end?) of it all as that will determine the integration with C4.

[Cyknight]

Note that there are ALSO 'direct' DMX spotlights, wall washers and so on. Basically these just have a dmx decoder built into it, so you simply wire up the DMX to them, and use the output side of it to go on to the next one, then the next strip decoder etc etc etc.

There is no specific order you must follow to make it all work.

If you have 4 wall washers that you want to use a single 'light' you just set all of them to the same DMX address. If you have an LED strip physically wired in between the third and fourth wall washer that you want to control seperately , no problem - just set it to a different address

[LollerAgent]

Not to confuse you more, but I also just stumbled across this which could come in handy if you weren't wanting to do a full blown DMX solution:

https://www.axxind.com/product/dcm5-led-color-and-color-temperature-controller/

It's Zigbee Pro/C4 compatible -- and you can wire any RGB/WW strip up to it for wireless control.  Of course you still need a power supply.

[mstafford388]

47 minutes ago, LollerAgent said:

Not to confuse you more, but I also just stumbled across this which could come in handy if you weren't wanting to do a full blown DMX solution:

https://www.axxind.com/product/dcm5-led-color-and-color-temperature-controller/

It's Zigbee Pro/C4 compatible -- and you can wire any RGB/WW strip up to it for wireless control.  Of course you still need a power supply.

I have tested this setup in my house and so far I'm pretty pleased.  Not quite as smooth fading from color to color as DMX but a good solution for the price.

[obas]

@Cyknight Thanks, that would be idel but are those direct DMX lights are they mostly like stage lights rated for outdoor use?  I couldn't find many outdoor DMX lights in a google search I checked the Mirus and Lotus, are they for indoor use? I might be mistaken, though. I also checked for outdoor-rated dmx encoders but they are also pretty pricy, DMX lights would really be useful for that too. My Control4 guy came to the house yesterday (for some unrelated things, to redo rack, install some more locks), and I asked him about their experience with DMX integration. It seems they are not very familiar with that (which worries me a bit). Is this common, DMX is not something commonly used  and most C4 integrators don't have much experience with it? I also had a lawn guy coming yesterday, he suggested FX Luminaire, which supposedly has good integration with C4). Do you have experience with that brand? That would be easier, but I'm kind of interested in doing the whole DMX thing myself.

@LollerAgent @mstafford388 Even more options huh  So that one has direct integration with Control4s zigbee network (like the switches) and native support? Are they easy to program (light shows or so). I think they are for indoor use (can get an enclosure)?  How much are they  Thanks for the suggestion. 

[Cyknight]

10 hours ago, obas said:

re those direct DMX lights are they mostly like stage lights rated for outdoor use

There's certainly dmx(direct/built in) IP 67/69 rated dmx wall washer and flood lights, we've used spotlights as well. We use a local supplier so I couldn't tell you specific brands for those - but you're probably wanting to look for indusstrial lighting.

 

[Andrew H]

On 10/20/2023 at 10:18 AM, obas said:

I couldn't find many outdoor DMX lights in a google search I checked the Mirus and Lotus, are they for indoor use? I might be mistaken, though. I also checked for outdoor-rated dmx encoders but they are also pretty pricy, DMX lights would really be useful for that too

What would be your use case for outdoor lighting? As long as the lights won't be directly exposed to the elements, a lot of 'indoor' fixtures and strip can be used outside as well. Check out the photo gallery on our website to see some examples of this. We have also worked with landscape lighting before, which is directly exposed to the elements. This can be a bit more challenging to maintain but certainly can be done.

As for the outdoor decoders, you would be better off finding an indoor/covered place for the decoders to live, if you can. The decoder does not have to be right next to the fixture.  As long as the gateway and decoder will stay dry and not overly hot, you can use an 'indoor' decoder to drive outdoor fixtures.

[obas]

@Andrew H Thanks for he link. The use case would be spot lights in the yard to wash the walls and highlight some pillars and plants, as well as light to shine on the trees in my yard. The lights will be completely exposed to strong sun ( located in Texas) and some very heavy rains once in a while (as well as the sprinkler system).

[TFlury]

@obas Please take a look here https://mirusinc.net/certified-dealers we currently have 2 dealers in the Austin Texas region. 

For wash lights we can do custom build to order RGBW (3K Kelvin) well lights. These are rated for full outdoor use. For general white accent spot lights we have seen several of our dealers integrate standard 12v DC landscape lighting into a Mirus system as well.

If you're interested in more information, have your Control4 Dealer go to https://mirusinc.net/mirus-dealer-application to become a Mirus Dealer.

[JRed1200]

On 10/12/2023 at 12:03 PM, anon2828 said:

I use Wiz.  Search the forums for my previous posts on this.  Availability - you can get them at Home Depot.  Cost - they are relatively cheap compared to Hue and others. Performance/quality - there are online articles comparing them versus Hue (generally thought to be top quality) where reviewers could barely tell the difference (they are both made by Philips).  Integration - there are now two different Wiz drivers available.  My experience has been very good with the integration - zero issues and I have them indoors (LED strips) and outdoors (bulbs).  Frankly don't know why more people don't use Wiz.  Only downside is that each bulb/strip does use its own IP address and if your WiFi setup is not strong could congest your network, but that is true of any Wifi solution versus Zigbee, etc.

what are the driver names, i cant find them for the life of me

[Andrew luecke]

14 minutes ago, JRed1200 said:

what are the driver names, i cant find them for the life of me

https://chowmain.software/drivers/control4-wiz

[zaphod]

@Andrew luecke You guys have done drivers for several of the different options for LED lights, strips, etc.  Do you have a view on the merits of the various systems?  Any reason to believe that one manufacturer is better than any others in terms of stability of API/Control4 driver? 

It would be really nice if we could come up with a standard where the API is the same for all of these systems where the basic controls like on, off, toggle, set_color, get_status, etc use the same API commands. 

[anon2828]

Not trying to start an argument, but just curious why anyone would want to hassle with all of the additional programming, equipment, and complexity necessary for DMX?  Seems like there are plenty of all-in-one solutions that bypass the necessity for DMX.

Also to the above question - the Wiz driver I am using is:

https://drivercentral.io/platforms/control4-drivers/lighting/wiz-led-rgb-wifi-light-driver/

[zaphod]

5 minutes ago, anon2828 said:

Not trying to start an argument, but just curious why anyone would want to hassle with all of the additional programming, equipment, and complexity necessary for DMX?  Seems like there are plenty of all-in-one solutions that bypass the necessity for DMX.

Probably because with DMX it is possible to put all sorts of lights/devices on the system.  With Wiz you are limited to their product line.

And the Wiz stuff looks pretty expensive.  A basic 5050 LED light strip is about $10 for 5m/16 feet. You could attach these to DMX controllers and do whatever you want.

[Cyknight]

7 hours ago, anon2828 said:

all of the additional programming, equipment, and complexity necessary for DMX

What programming. What additional equipement? You'd be buying stantdard lighting strips vs buying all in one packages. Complexity is relative.

Why? Because it's a standard, it's well maintained, well documented, and will outlast any 'brand' - Because it's universal and doesn;t rely on a brand to begin with. Because it's very capable, and it doens't rely on internet, cloud etc.

 

There's NOTHING wrong with using other options for small projects or very specific functions (for example, the Govee I use is used only for it's TV screen tracking backlight and all i do is turn it on and off) and I have a few Hue bulbs in specific sports where it was convenient to use them as wiring wasn't feasible. But I did my complete basement using low voltage lighting: there was never a doubt that I'd be using DMX for it.

[zaphod]

15 minutes ago, Cyknight said:

There's NOTHING wrong with using other options for small projects or very specific functions (for example, the Govee I use is used only for it's TV screen tracking backlight and all i do is turn it on and off) and I have a few Hue bulbs in specific sports where it was convenient to use them as wiring wasn't feasible. But I did my complete basement using low voltage lighting: there was never a doubt that I'd be using DMX for it.

How many meters of strips do you have in your basement?

[Cyknight]

3 hours ago, zaphod said:

How many meters of strips do you have in your basement?

It's not strips: DMX doesn't equal strips. In my case it's (true) low voltage potlights - 60 or so of them -  as well. Plus something like 30m of striplights as well, for closets, shelves, and toekicks. Potlights are simple whites, not RGB - again DMX doesn't equal RGB as such.

 

For reference, we're also doing a whole house right now as well with basically all low voltage lighting (dual white) except a few chandeliers and vanity lights.

[zaphod]

12 hours ago, Cyknight said:

It's not strips: DMX doesn't equal strips. In my case it's (true) low voltage potlights - 60 or so of them -  as well. Plus something like 30m of striplights as well, for closets, shelves, and toekicks.

I realize that, but DMX becomes more cost effective when you are doing that much distance.  Some of these brands like Hue and Wiz sell you a 2m light strip and then have 1m extensions.  They are not at all well suited where you want to do the perimeter of your room, Or toekicks all around your kitchen.

[Cyknight]

4 hours ago, zaphod said:

I realize that, but DMX becomes more cost effective when you are doing that much distance.  Some of these brands like Hue and Wiz sell you a 2m light strip and then have 1m extensions.  They are not at all well suited where you want to do the perimeter of your room, Or toekicks all around your kitchen.

Well yes that was my point as well: once you start doing larger numbers, DMX is well worth it. If all you want is a single tV backlight, well there's other ways.

[Andrew luecke]

On 11/5/2023 at 3:51 AM, zaphod said:

@Andrew luecke You guys have done drivers for several of the different options for LED lights, strips, etc.  Do you have a view on the merits of the various systems?  Any reason to believe that one manufacturer is better than any others in terms of stability of API/Control4 driver? 

It would be really nice if we could come up with a standard where the API is the same for all of these systems where the basic controls like on, off, toggle, set_color, get_status, etc use the same API commands. 

Different devices have different benefits / usecase scenarios. There is no one-size fits all unfortunately. That being said, a lot of products of ours, we work closely with Manufacturers (and in many cases such as Shelly,American Lighting and a few other products, we actually got the hardware before official release)

Even standards like Matter which are designed to be a "common standard", have disadvantages which could easily allow other companies to compete for other reasons. One such issue is the fact is standard is 800+ pages, which is probably why support is still almost non-existent.

 

Even once implemented though, these protocols would still need proper drivers to support everything properly though most likely.

Andy

 

 

[anon2828]

I have fairly large implementations of Wiz tape lighting.  Used for large ceiling details in multiple rooms and under floating cabinet lighting as well as under cabinet lighting and a few bulbs used in pendant fixtures.

When compared to Hue, I did the math and it is far cheaper ($48 vs. $99 for a 6ft starter strip), and the quality is the same or better for the light strip itself.

Sure, it isn't like purchasing some random brand reel of 100ft of LED tape from Amazon, but it is a good quality solution with support and drivers available for Control4.

If for any reason I sell my home, the lighting can continue to live on the Wiz app without Control4.

[Andrew luecke]

1 minute ago, anon2828 said:

I have fairly large implementations of Wiz tape lighting.  Used for large ceiling details in multiple rooms and under floating cabinet lighting as well as under cabinet lighting and a few bulbs used in pendant fixtures.

When compared to Hue, I did the math and it is far cheaper ($48 vs. $99 for a 6ft starter strip), and the quality is the same or better for the light strip itself.

Sure, it isn't like purchasing some random brand reel of 100ft of LED tape from Amazon, but it is a good quality solution with support and drivers available for Control4.

If for any reason I sell my home, the lighting can continue to live on the Wiz app without Control4.

I  replaced the  Hue lights in my bedroom with WiZ actually fairly recently.