Networkguru Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 Hello Control4 Specialist, maybe you can support me here, i have the following configuration: ----------------------------------------------------------------- VLAN44: via DHCP - Net 192.168.44.0/24 Gateway 192.168.44.250 c4:control4_ea5 192.168.44.5 c4:v1_8chanamp:c4-8AMP1-B 192.168.44.1 Denon:AVR-X1600H 192.168.44.4 c4:uidevice_glassedge 10p_touchscreen 192.168.41.25 c4:control4_ea1 192.168.44.8 Denon:AVR-X1600H 192.168.44.9 c4:uidevice_touchscreen_t4_inwall8 192.168.44.3 c4:trid_one 192.168.44.10 c4:uidevice_glassedge7_touchscreen 192.168.44.11 Apple_TV-control4 192.168.44.6 ----------------------------------------------------------------- VLAN41: via DHCP IP-Adressen 192.168.41.1-30, Net 192.168.41.0/24, Gateway 192.168.41.250 iPhone iPadGalaxy XCover 4s SM-A405FN SM-A405FN Galaxy A40 iPhone11,2 iPad6,8 SM-A226B A22 iPhone15,2 iPhone-14-pro iPhone15,2 ----------------------------------------------------------------- The Router is Cisco 898EA - The Switches HP Procurve 1800G-24, Configuration is Tagged Ports/VLANs ----------------------------------------------------------------- Must i configure Multicast, pim sparse-dense-mode, RP etc. on the Cisco Router ? What to configure on the EA5 Controller (with composer) ? Which protocols are used, IGMP, SSDP, MDNS etc. ? How can i access via control4 APP from the devices in VLAN41 the Control4 Controller EA5 ? ----------------------------------------------------------------- many thanks for your support networkguru Disable | Delete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 If you are a network guru should you be asking this? christophers, Control4Savant and ekohn00 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillmark99 Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 LMFAO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew luecke Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 Buy 4Sight.. Done. Why have 2 VLAN's though? Is this a large business? msgreenf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Control4Savant Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 2 hours ago, Andrew luecke said: Buy 4Sight.. Done. Why have 2 VLAN's though? Is this a large business? Most of my managed networks have multiple VLANS…? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew luecke Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 4 hours ago, Control4Savant said: Most of my managed networks have multiple VLANS…? Using a lot of vlans in a residential project sometimes overcomplicates things honestly The only way to not make this complicated is 4sight.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LollerAgent Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 I have my automation stuff (including C4) in it's own VLAN and I can access it just fine from other VLANs on my network. You most likely have a misconfiguration on the device that is handling your L3/inner-VLAN routing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Control4Savant Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 7 hours ago, Andrew luecke said: Using a lot of vlans in a residential project sometimes overcomplicates things honestly That statement is no different than having a control system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lippavisual Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 I’m not seeing any need to have 2 separate VLANs at all with the equipment you listed. Id also agree that you either didn’t setup the correct rules in your firewall or don’t have any static routing setup. Andrew luecke and msgreenf 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew luecke Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 4 hours ago, Control4Savant said: That statement is no different than having a control system. Only if you overcomplicate the control system too... Particularly the moment you throw a receiver and/or projector in the mix, any good system will make it easier. In this case, not sure what the usecase would be to split up WLAN and lan as an example imho. Furthermore, that diagram impies that smarthome also has its own wifi ssid too? What happens if they add a new wireless device they want accessible in both smarthome and the standard wifi? What happens if the customer wants to swap installer? Some devices which utilise UDP also wont work particularly well over vlan too Residential has different requirements to enterprise networks. Which is why I'm asking specifically if it's business Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LollerAgent Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 1 hour ago, Andrew luecke said: What happens if they add a new wireless device they want accessible in both smarthome and the standard wifi? Then you have a routing/firewall configuration that allows this? Control4Savant 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Control4Savant Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 9 hours ago, Andrew luecke said: Only if you overcomplicate the control system too... Particularly the moment you throw a receiver and/or projector in the mix, any good system will make it easier. In this case, not sure what the usecase would be to split up WLAN and lan as an example imho. Furthermore, that diagram impies that smarthome also has its own wifi ssid too? What happens if they add a new wireless device they want accessible in both smarthome and the standard wifi? What happens if the customer wants to swap installer? Some devices which utilise UDP also wont work particularly well over vlan too Residential has different requirements to enterprise networks. Which is why I'm asking specifically if it's business Everything you’re saying applies to any managed tech… and realistically, no they don‘t. A managed network is a managed network. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Control4Savant Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 10 hours ago, lippavisual said: I’m not seeing any need to have 2 separate VLANs at all with the equipment you listed. Id also agree that you either didn’t setup the correct rules in your firewall or don’t have any static routing setup. Separated VLANS is like basic IT sec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lippavisual Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 On 12/1/2023 at 10:29 PM, Control4Savant said: Separated VLANS is like basic IT sec. Yes, when it’s setup properly and doesn’t require VLANs to talk to other VLANs. When this is allowed, it’s no different than just having 1 LAN. For a homeowner, it doesn’t make sense especially when they clearly don’t know much about networking. It just makes it more complicated for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Control4Savant Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 11 minutes ago, lippavisual said: Yes, when it’s setup properly and doesn’t require VLANs to talk to other VLANs. When this is allowed, it’s no different than just having 1 LAN. For a homeowner, it doesn’t make sense especially when they clearly don’t know much about networking. It just makes it more complicated for them. Uh. No, thats not the same. You need to learn more about firewall/routing rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 Vlans are very poor replacement for firewalls. They don't serve the same purpose and they are a weak security layer. They're more for traffic separation than they are real security Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Control4Savant Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 6 minutes ago, msgreenf said: Vlans are very poor replacement for firewalls. They don't serve the same purpose and they are a weak security layer. They're more for traffic separation than they are real security VLANS dont replace firewalls….. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 Vlans, acls, firewalls all have their place. I tend to think about vlans more as traffic separation and acls and firewalls as the security constructs Andrew luecke 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekohn00 Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 VLANs are layer 2. FWs are layer 3 ACLs are firewall rules applied to a router or switch and are layer 2 and 3. Each has a reason to be used and they don't replace each other. msgreenf and Control4Savant 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew luecke Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 3 hours ago, Control4Savant said: Uh. No, thats not the same. You need to learn more about firewall/routing rules. What he's trying to say is I think is that there is practical security, and theoretical. We all know about routing and firewalls.. When installers go overboard with vlans, control4 or us often gets a call saying something isn't working over the vlan, or have stopped working. Sometimes the first troubleshooting step is "get rid of the vlan". Or sometimes, serious adjustments are needed which just removes a lot of the security anyway, or devices just get stuck "temporarily" in the wrong vlan. In this case, I'm still a bit weary that lan is split from wifi, and not sure why. And still would appreciate a explanation of why this is practical in a residential environment The question here is "how do I make control4 work between vlans" and already demonstrates that the system has likely been overcomplicated already. Hence why the initial question (where I meant 5 vlans actually, not 2), are you a large business? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekohn00 Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 7 minutes ago, Andrew luecke said: In this case, I'm still a bit weary that lan is split from wifi, and not sure why. And still would appreciate a explanation of why this is practical in a residential environment I 2nd the thought. If you're running 1GE+ at home, I don't see the need for VLANs. msgreenf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Control4Savant Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 41 minutes ago, Andrew luecke said: What he's trying to say is I think is that there is practical security, and theoretical. We all know about routing and firewalls.. When installers go overboard with vlans, control4 or us often gets a call saying something isn't working over the vlan, or have stopped working. Sometimes the first troubleshooting step is "get rid of the vlan". Or sometimes, serious adjustments are needed which just removes a lot of the security anyway, or devices just get stuck "temporarily" in the wrong vlan. In this case, I'm still a bit weary that lan is split from wifi, and not sure why. And still would appreciate a explanation of why this is practical in a residential environment The question here is "how do I make control4 work between vlans" and already demonstrates that the system has likely been overcomplicated already. Hence why the initial question (where I meant 5 vlans actually, not 2), are you a large business? Plenty of tech commercial and consumer have needed extra steps in networking config or require individual sec. rules. Thats not new and why VLANs are important, not the other way around…and even just for traffic purposes VLANS are a standard. There a bunch of useful reasons why to use them and the only “problem” is lack of knowledge which is RIPE in our industry to be putting it kindly, we should all acknowledge that point. Again, in the same point control systems are generally complete overkill for most AV which is why consumer electronics is in the state it’s in. It doesnt negate its usefulness in any way unless it’s incorrectly managed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 there are not useful reasons to use them in most home installs...sorry...most home installs should follow the KISS principle ekohn00 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekohn00 Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 2 hours ago, Control4Savant said: It doesnt negate its usefulness in any way unless it’s incorrectly managed. VLANs probably aren't needed in homes, whether they're managed correctly or incorrectly. There are just not many use cases for them at home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Control4Savant Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 1 hour ago, msgreenf said: there are not useful reasons to use them in most home installs...sorry...most home installs should follow the KISS principle Spoken like a true AV guy. This is why our industry sucks at networking. christophers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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