Some advice for Control4 diy'ers

[xc420]

Don't Upgrade to 2.0 if you like the ability to add devices or change configurations. 2.0 will lock you out of your own system. Even if you manage to get a copy of Composer2.0, it will do you no good because it needs to be authenticated with dealer info.

Here's a link to an article explaining some new features of 2.0

http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Control4-EMS-100/

I like how it's carefully worded.

Composer 2.0 -- Designed for installation and configuration, Composer 2.0 adds license activation, enabling authorized dealers to "specify the installers allowed to use Composer 2.0 and to lock projects to prevent inadvertent changes," says the company.

"specify the installers allowed to use Composer 2.0" - yeah right, sure

"...and to lock projects to prevent inadvertent changes" - as if opening my email might accidentally reprogram my system.

[ILoveC4]

Yeah, I'm sure systems accidentally getting reprogrammed are a real problem.

All I can say is "if there's a will, there's a way".

Anythings possible. Just remember that if man can make it, man can break it.

[henniae]

There seems to be some missing information here. The passage you quoted referrers to Composer Pro. C4 is adding license activation for Composer Pro. C4 owns the rights to Composer Pro and can distribute it in any manner they wish. If they wish to limit the distribution of Composer Pro to dealers only and prevent pirated copies of the Composer Pro software that is their right.

C4 has never been a DIY system, it has always been a dealer installed and supported model. Period. If you have a copy of Composer Pro it was obtained against the the wishes of Control 4.

Think of like Microsoft's Windows Genuine Advantage program. Microsoft has the right to require that you have a legal copy of Windows. Copyright in the USA (and other countries) allows them to exercise this right.

C4 wants to exercise their right to limit who has a copy of Composer Pro. They have the right to do so. They are enforcing this right via the license activation.

You will still be able to purchase a copy of Composer HE to program your system in the limits of what Composer HE allows you to do.

[ILoveC4]

Control4 is well within their rights to do that, nobody stated they weren't. That doesn't mean it isn't frustrating. I don't need to get into the specifics of my situation, but I will say I had Control4 over one year before I even realized it was a dealer installed and supported system. Also, I don't pirate Composer Pro. My situation may be unique, but you should be careful when painting everyone with the same broad brush. There are *always* exceptions and special circumstance.

[Kevin L]

[henniae]

Dan

I was no specifically referring to you when I said

"If you have a copy of Composer Pro it was obtained against the the wishes of Control 4."

I should have said

Anyone who has a copy of Composer Pro that was obtained through unofficial channels has that software against the wishes of Control 4.

I still think my original statement is accurate and still covers 99.9% of the people that have a copy of Composer Pro and are not dealers.

[ILoveC4]

I know you weren't specifically referring to me. Just saying, be careful when making broad statements...that's all.

[xc420]

[BriPink]

Forgetting for a moment whether this is desirable or not, I do have some questions about this.

Namely, will these "features" of 2.0 prevent a homeowner from using the basic IP-level control that's possible today? Will one still be able to load the project from a controller, understand the XML, and issue commands to the system? Or will that all be locked down, accessible only using proprietary protocols and keys issued by Control4?

It's important to me that any system I install in my house be open and hackable. That Control4 wants to limit Composer Pro to its dealers is a decision that's within their rights (it's just a bit of software, after all), but if they're going to extend that control into the rest of my system, it's heading for the junk pile.

[Kevin L]

Forgetting for a moment whether this is desirable or not, I do have some questions about this.

Namely, will these "features" of 2.0 prevent a homeowner from using the basic IP-level control that's possible today? Will one still be able to load the project from a controller, understand the XML, and issue commands to the system? Or will that all be locked down, accessible only using proprietary protocols and keys issued by Control4?

It's important to me that any system I install in my house be open and hackable. That Control4 wants to limit Composer Pro to its dealers is a decision that's within their rights (it's just a bit of software, after all), but if they're going to extend that control into the rest of my system, it's heading for the junk pile.

lol.. so let me get this straight. you purchased a product that was CLEARLY NOT FOR DYIers and you are pissed that they are locking down their products even more to stop you from doing something you shouldnt be doing? so its important that your system is open and hackable? whats your ip address let me see what i can check out on your open and hackable network and router or do you still want that secure and safe?

[BriPink]

Actually, I purchased what is a fairly open system, one piece of which was a Windows app that I couldn't use. OK, fine. I don't run Windows here, and my helpful dealer is happy to do the parts that I can't do.

I'm just curious if the parts of the system that are open today will continue to be open in future releases, that's all.

[xc420]

I'm wondering, will I be able to replace components without upgrading to 2.0 a year or two from now? Or will I be forced to upgrade to 2.0 to replace a HC-300? If I can't replace components and keep my system as is @1.7, mine will be headed for the junk pile also.

[henniae]

I'm wondering, will I be able to replace components without upgrading to 2.0 a year or two from now? Or will I be forced to upgrade to 2.0 to replace a HC-300? If I can't replace components and keep my system as is @1.7, mine will be headed for the junk pile also.

I will save you the headache. I will pay for shipping so you can send your equipment to me.

[xc420]

I'm wondering' date=' will I be able to replace components without upgrading to 2.0 a year or two from now? Or will I be forced to upgrade to 2.0 to replace a HC-300? If I can't replace components and keep my system as is @1.7, mine will be headed for the junk pile also.[/quote']

I will save you the headache. I will pay for shipping so you can send your equipment to me.

I tell you what, when my system fails, I'll send you the broken components. Of course, after an EE looks over it first.

[wappinghigh]

Actually, I purchased what is a fairly open system, one piece of which was a Windows app that I couldn't use. OK, fine. I don't run Windows here, and my helpful dealer is happy to do the parts that I can't do.

I'm just curious if the parts of the system that are open today will continue to be open in future releases, that's all.

Actually, I think this is an important point. I'm just getting into Composer HE now. Being able to add little tweeks to my project on and above what my dealer has done is fantastic. Further, when Composer 2.0 HE comes out, it would be nice to add device/zone name changing ability, GUI tweeks, and little things like that. Personal things, that the dealer doesn't necessarily pick up on. This sort of function will make it a better system. If C4 completely locks things down, the platform will certainly have a bit of a 'control freek' feel about it...:cool:

[urbanmark]

I'm just getting into Composer HE now. Being able to add little tweeks to my project on and above what my dealer has done is fantastic. Further, when Composer 2.0 HE comes out, it would be nice to add device/zone name changing ability, GUI tweeks, and little things like that. Personal things, that the dealer doesn't necessarily pick up on. This sort of function will make it a better system. If C4 completely locks things down, the platform will certainly have a bit of a 'control freek' feel about it...:cool:

Absolutely agree. I like the C4 product and really like the DIY aspect that Composer HE allows (If HE didn't exist, I would not have purchased). But, I also feel I'm at the mercy of *my dealer* for some pretty basic requests... which can be very frustrating at times.

[alanchow]

Control4 has chosen to limit the programming of their system to trained dealers to protect their image. There are systems out there that do not have this protection and when the programming is not done correctly makes the product look bad.

I am sure that there are some consumers who are capable of programming the system however there are many that do not.

If you do not agree with this then go buy a X10. That product is geared towards the hobbiest demographic.

Control4 has listened to many of you and have created ComposerHE which is a product that is made to give the consumer some control over the programming of the system but not enough to majorly break the default behaviour of the system.

2.0's piracy protection is designed to limit the use of ComposerPro to current trained dealers who are still skilled up. This means that you can be assured that the dealer you have hired is skilled in Control4.

Anyway i'm out gotta go on my honeymoon.

[GoGo Delicious]

Just a question for C4 dealers/programmers.

The following was stated above in the first post.

Composer 2.0 -- Designed for installation and configuration, Composer 2.0 adds license activation, enabling authorized dealers to "specify the installers allowed to use Composer 2.0 and to lock projects to prevent inadvertent changes," says the company.

Does this mean that the dealer who programmed the 2.0 system is the only one who can access it or can any dealer access the program? I am concerned about ". . .lock projects to prevent inadvertent changes."

What if a user wants to switch dealers, for whatever reason, does the new dealer have the ability to access and tweak, modify the 2.0 program or will the original dealer/programmer only have access?

[dogdvr]

Well James,

I don't know why you are worried, after all you do not sell C4.

But, my understanding is it allows us to give each programmer or installer a code to access programming.

Those can be shut off.

Master codes from dealers will still open the project up, so customers can switch dealers, they just can't have EX dealers program their system.

* HUGE CAVEOT*

I do not know any of this for a fact. these are rumors and maybe unfounded.

ALL details will be provided when Control4 releases 2.0

Brent

[ILoveC4]

Well James,

I don't know why you are worried, after all you do not sell C4.

Wow...a little on edge are we? That's a valid question, and IMO that information would mean more to end users than to dealers.

Brent, tell me this: Do you still sell Control4?

[dannyboy]

I agree with GoGo's implied concerns. (or maybe he sees this as a benefit if he sells a competing product ?)

How does crestron deal with this dealer vs DIYer trade-off?

[dogdvr]

What would you like to buy?

And what does it matter to you. You do not live in my area, and I have gone on record as not supporting remote installs or programming.?

So is this a legitimate question or are you just trying find out if I am allowed to be posting as a dealer?

Or are just looking to start a flame war like you have with KJB?

[ILoveC4]

What would you like to buy?

And what does it matter to you. You do not live in my area, and I have gone on record as not supporting remote installs or programming.?

So is this a legitimate question or are you just trying find out if I am allowed to be posting as a dealer?

Or are just looking to start a flame war like you have with KJB?

Just curious Brent, that's all. I know the answer, apparently you don't want the public to know and that's up to you.

No flame war here, I just asked a question.

PS: It was K&J I battled with, not KJB.

[dogdvr]

My mistake on K&J

How do you know the answer?,

Did you become a dealer?

Or are you relying on the C4 website?

LOL. I would love to hear this answer.

[ILoveC4]

You can shoot me an email to discuss it further if you'd like. I will say I'm not a dealer, and I haven't done a search for dealers on Control4's website.

If you want the info public, let the people know. I don't care what you do, I was just curious how you'd handle that after you BS response to GoGoDelicious.