Some advice for Control4 diy'ers

[Ara]

I have a good size setup, 5 controllers and close to 80 lights, and some stuff that I have put together that no dealer would of wanted me to even try to explain what I wanted, I did all of it myself start to finish, I came across a bridge that I could not cross when the upgrade 1.8.2 was done, after much research I found that the dealer to call is THE SOHO SHOP, Cody was great in helping me finish my upgrade, and Bryan was grate in taking care of the entire process including getting me some more product. if I had to call a dealer every time I changed my mind in wanting things done different, it would of coast me bundle more, not to mention that I would of pissed off the dealer and possibly lost him, I knew this going in with the C4 system, but I say if there is a will there is a way, I do think that some of the dealers should have some kind of yearly program that you pay small amount per month and have all the modifications done for free, no limits

[ILoveC4]

if there is a will there is a way

Yup...that's what I say as well.

I can also second The SOHO Shop...they are great.

[CFUG]

I have a good size setup, 5 controllers and close to 80 lights, and some stuff that I have put together that no dealer would of wanted me to even try to explain what I wanted, I did all of it myself start to finish, I came across a bridge that I could not cross when the upgrade 1.8.2 was done, after much research I found that the dealer to call is THE SOHO SHOP, Cody was great in helping me finish my upgrade, and Bryan was grate in taking care of the entire process including getting me some more product. if I had to call a dealer every time I changed my mind in wanting things done different, it would of coast me bundle more, not to mention that I would of pissed off the dealer and possibly lost him, I knew this going in with the C4 system, but I say if there is a will there is a way, I do think that some of the dealers should have some kind of yearly program that you pay small amount per month and have all the modifications done for free, no limits

A monthly fee? Yes, that's what I want is a service contract or another monthly payment. Nope, I use my head and OK things up front before the project is started. I listen to my dealer and hang the responsibility on him to deliver perfromance as per contract.

I don't do any work and I expect 100% of what I specify and pay for. My dealer respects this and understands I'm the boss (except when it comes to wanting an HC-1000 . I enjoy my C4 system for these reasons. Isn't this the way Control4 wants it and what they have stated to be the "model"?

[zaphod]

I'm just curious, did all of you end users (me included) realize that this system was not open to Diy'ers prior to purchasing it? If you did not, shame on you for not doing your research! As mentioned you could have gone with CQC, HAI, Homeseer, or any of the many other options - I almost did, or. The fact is you purchased a system that was limited, you should have know this going into the purchase, now quit bitching about it! It seems everything freaking day somebody new, or the same old person, is whining about this, it is getting really old.

When I purchased C4 my dealer said that I can do all of the programming in the system that I want as C4 had something called Composer HE for end users. He said that the limitation was that I couldn't add hardware. He said that I could add media to the system like MP3 files and Rhapsody.

Perhaps I was being very naive but my definition of not being able to add hardware was stuff like C4 dimmers, 6 buttons, etc. I didn't think that "hardware" meant that I had to call the dealer to do some work if I bought a new DVD player. I would argue that you don't really know the limitations of a product like Composer HE until you have played around with it for a little while.

[shaneoneill]

Actually' date=' I purchased what is a fairly open system, one piece of which was a Windows app that I couldn't use. OK, fine. I don't run Windows here, and my helpful dealer is happy to do the parts that I can't do.

I'm just curious if the parts of the system that are open today will continue to be open in future releases, that's all.[/quote']

Actually, I think this is an important point. I'm just getting into Composer HE now. Being able to add little tweeks to my project on and above what my dealer has done is fantastic. Further, when Composer 2.0 HE comes out, it would be nice to add device/zone name changing ability, GUI tweeks, and little things like that. Personal things, that the dealer doesn't necessarily pick up on. This sort of function will make it a better system. If C4 completely locks things down, the platform will certainly have a bit of a 'control freek' feel about it...:cool:

i totally agree. my dealer does and will continue to do the heavy lifting, but there are things i want to do which do not require a whole visit etc which im perfectly capable of doing..

[PoPcorN]

So I have been reading through this post and I think the people that are blasting DIYers are way off base.

Here are some reasons DIY is a good option

1. I just bought a house and want to do something cool with it but don't have $20000 to spend

2. C4 hardware and functionality lands within my budget but installation does not.

3. I install alarms, RJ45, RG6, and everything else with a wire. I have been doing it for 10 years. What makes you think you can do it better than me?

4. I have a Masters degree in computer programming. If I can write software I think I can setup a C4 system

5. I know what people will say "Well why dont you become a dealer". That is not something I am interested in. With all do respect, I dont give a sh*t about other peoples setup. I want to setup my own

I dont want anyone to take my post as bragging. I just want to make a point that I am a DIYer and there are many more out there like me as I have read in this post.

If you are a dealer I think there are plenty of stay at home moms and lawyers out there that would love for you to come out and install there system for them, but the small minority that want to DI"Ourselfs" should have that right.

[dogdvr]

So I have been reading through this post and I think the people that are blasting DIYers are way off base.

Here are some reasons DIY is a good option

1. I just bought a house and want to do something cool with it but don't have $20000 to spend

2. C4 hardware and functionality lands within my budget but installation does not.

3. I install alarms, RJ45, RG6, and everything else with a wire. I have been doing it for 10 years. What makes you think you can do it better than me?

4. I have a Masters degree in computer programming. If I can write software I think I can setup a C4 system

5. I know what people will say "Well why dont you become a dealer". That is not something I am interested in. With all do respect, I dont give a sh*t about other peoples setup. I want to setup my own

I dont want anyone to take my post as bragging. I just want to make a point that I am a DIYer and there are many more out there like me as I have read in this post.

If you are a dealer I think there are plenty of stay at home moms and lawyers out there that would love for you to come out and install there system for them, but the small minority that want to DI"Ourselfs" should have that right.

So, just to be clear

You have a Masters degree in computer programming, and you have been pulling wire for 10 yrs?

Interesting use of your Masters degree.

As for the rest of your argument,

Please refer to the last 3 threads that had these arguments.

No need to rehash them here

Good luck sir

Brent

[ILoveC4]

I knew it was only a matter of time before this thread came back up...

On that note, I agree with you PoPcorN.

[RyanE]

So I have been reading through this post and I think the people that are blasting DIYers are way off base.

Without 'blasting DIYers' (hopefully!), I'll say the 3 things I have consistently said about this, and get out while I can...

1) You certainly may be smart enough to install your own Control4 system. No one needs to say otherwise. It's not rocket surgery. That said, it isn't something most people could do without either a) training in Control4's system or a lot of time to mess around with it.

2) It's not Control4's business model. Ranting and raving about it has not changed it to date, but feel free to continue. Who knows, at some point, maybe Control4 could change it's model.

3) If you wish to DIY your system, there are other alternatives, both paid and free, and maybe Control4 is not the system for you. I personally don't think they give you 'the whole package' Control4 does, but they might work out better for you than trying to DIY Control4.

RyanE

P.S.

If you are a dealer I think there are plenty of stay at home moms and lawyers out there that would love for you to come out and install there system for them, but the small minority that want to DI"Ourselfs" should have that right.

How exactly is it a *right* to be able to DIY your own Control4 system? Seriously, I'm not trying to make an argument, but I just don't understand this.

[srhamy]

Good luck with that plan past 1.8.2.

[control4dealer]

My wife and I had the budget around $10k for C4 before we moved to our new home. We went to Magnolia and they gave us a quote of 30 dimmers/switches and 1 hc-300 for approximate 12k included programming/installation.

I spent about a month to do research and find a decent local C4 dealers for the part only. I managed myself to get a copy of composer pro. My total price is 5k. We saved 7k from the Magnolia quote.

Just some words for someone who plan to DIY C4.

[hike]

Which is why I'll sit at 1.7.4.36 for a long while...

[EagleMoon]

We went to Magnolia and they gave us a quote of 30 dimmers/switches and 1 hc-300 for approximate 12k included programming/installation.

Are you serious? Were they?

Isn't that something like $7,000 for programming, on top of the built-in margin on the equipment? For an hour or so of work? Even if they were to install the dimmers, that can't have been more than $1500 (for a really slow, but really expensive electrician).

That's insane. I spent about 32k on my system with 8 zones of audio, a theater, miscellaneous stuff and a dozen dimmers/keypads to start. I'd have to look at the invoice to be sure but I think my dealer charged me a line item of about $2k on top for installing but there was also several $k discount on hardware also included. And his guys had to drive two hours to install. Twice, because most of my theater equipment had not arrived by move-in and he gave me loaner screen and receiver for a few months.

Edit: I may have added wiring twice. It may have been more like 28k for everything.

[jwhitaker@revit]

lol, i love these threads.

i will not pull my own teeth even though i have the tools and knowledge to do it,

i will not remove my appendix even though i can learn how on google,

i will not rebuild my transmission, even though i do know how, and have done it once,

i will not fix my central a/c even though i have a friend who has a license and the tools i could borrow.

i think these are all examples everyone would agree with.

why would you want someone other that a trained professional to install and maintain your home system? one that can control all your comfort, security, entertainment, energy management needs, etc. if a home automation system can touch, and potentially mess up all these important functions of your life why would you trust it to anyone other than a professional who not only knows the system inside and out but also is held liable?

seriously is that couple bucks you save worth a $300.00 more costly hvac bill? $42,000 water damage bill when you are vacation because that water sensor you programed didn't send you a notification? All your gear gone because you didn't set up that nx8 panel properly.

i have actually heard of all these. so yeah you may be as smart as me or smarter. but don't down me because of my job. i make many peoples lives easier, and well a little less stressful with the peace of mind i bring.

Thanks to all you customers that actually value what we do, and recognize the pride we take in our work. you guys make this forum worth visiting to a guy on the other side of the remote!

[EagleMoon]

lol, i love these threads.

Me too. :/

I understand your point. But what about the person above who went to Magnolia -- was that really just a "couple bucks" to have that dealer do the work?

I don't need an HC300 but I need another couple dozen dimmers/keypads fairly soon. How much is that going to cost me?

[janusz]

jwhitaker@revit - I back you up here.

for most people it is "just" programming. for dealer: making proper physical connections, preparing drivers, rs232 drivers/cables if needed, design etc.

Maybe 7k was too much, but I had clients from hell where we had to do everything including building drivers for all legacy equipment as old VCR with composite output was "perfectly fine", same with the rest of theirs equipment.

Since then we divide quote to: physical installation, programing/logical installation, cad, design, IT setup so HCs has IP out of DHCP scope (to avoid future conflicts. As dealer you have to do all this stuff. For client it is just seeing guy who has spent hour connecting device to the power.

Not sure how good was dealer that has charged 7k. But my company has long check list and when job is done by technicians I go there and tick things on my list. If smth has not been done then technician need to go and fix it in his own time and he is not paid for this. Not sure if others would agree with me but we have teach our installer not to leave unfinished job.

So as you can see before job is signed of there is lots steps and people involved.

[EagleMoon]

Maybe 7k was too much

Maybe?

[diamonddesign]

Regardless of the position you have on this topic, if you want to violate federal copyright laws and try and obtain software illegally that's one thing but I wouldn't be giving advice to people online that they should do the same.

[jwhitaker@revit]

i say if the guy went to magnolia and was over charged or unhappy, then find a better dealer. there are plenty out there and i know a bunch across the u.s. personally that are great. have been around along time i put c4 dealers into categories now a day's. find the one that's right for you and your project. if price is reallty a concern i say wait till you have the dough for exactly what you want or do it in phases. this is good advise for any of you that don't want to see messy installs with pre made cables, problematic programming, networks powered by wrt54g's.

[EagleMoon]

Regardless of the position you have on this topic, if you want to violate federal copyright laws and try and obtain software illegally that's one thing but I wouldn't be giving advice to people online that they should do the same.

I trust your comment was not directed at me since I never suggested anyone do that. My comment above was about the absurdity of a "dealer" trying to charge someone over $350 per dimmer for the most basic system I could imagine.

When I asked him about adding things later, my dealer explained to me the process of "installing" a dimmer without their having to make a trip onsite -- where I connect it into the lighting circuit and then call them so they can log in remotely and together we get it identified to the system -- I'm the onsite eyes and hands and they do the Control4 work remotely. We've already done that on a thermostat. It's clearly a two- or three-minute job per switch; the thermostat took about 15 minutes because we had trouble -- according to them, it apparently had been installed somewhere else briefly. Took some troubleshooting to figure out that we needed to force it offline before it would join mine. It was supposed to be new-in-the-box but I guess wasn't really.

Quantity 1 list price for a dimmer is $130, right? Or maybe that's the price for one in a 10-pack, I don't remember. But I'd like to hear someone provide a reasonable explanation for how you get from anything like that to $350. No security, no A/V, no sensors of any kind -- just dimmers. Please. You can't reasonably create enough complicated lighting scenes to justify that kind of cost.

And physical install? It's a drop in the bucket. My electrical contractor last year billed his Master electricans at $50/hour when they were doing my house. Or maybe they were $80, but even with double or triple the labor rates, the cost to physically install the things is a nit.

Plus, it wasn't just $7000 they were asking, it was that plus the margin on the dimmers as well. It's insulting to me and I wasn't even the customer.

[jwhitaker@revit]

edited because i wasn't paying attention...

[diamonddesign]

I was directed at those saying to go try and find a torrent of composer. The topic itself has been covered plenty. As more and more developments, features and apps become available for 2.0+, the issue will sort itself out for the most part.