Devices not responding - Epic-Systems Echo driver

[prabeau]

True

[bk]

6 hours ago, jfh said:

Two comments;

1) 1.8 works fine on EA-5 on 3.1.0 and I understand it will be fine on 3.1.1 as well

2) I’m not sure I’d call analysis that refers to a driver as a “dumpster fire” professional. There are certainly more ways to make the point in a professional way.  While as a programmer I agree it’s generally not advised to make system changes outside the API, you have to consider the benefits over the risks.  I certainly agree with the unspoken point that the driver modification of the config file should have been noted previously.  (However as long as ES is actively supporting the driver, I don’t see it as a big concern). 
 

If you are happy with C4s VS driver (which was released well after the ES one), it’s relative slowness and remarkable lack of flexibility, then by all means drop the ES driver.  My voice automation relies heavily on being able to use the SET command event  (ES supports; C4 does not) to support use of natural sounding phrase triggers from Alexa routines.  That and VS inability to differentiate device and room names makes using VS messy at best (and/or forcing you to use ridiculous device names).  And I don’t think VS supports UP/DOWN either.

1) No it does not, it stopped working months ago after an Amazon update and now only works on generation 1 Echo's that did not update.

An update was indicated back in September that was expected in about a week at the time.

Requests for when this may now be ready have fallen on deaf ears.

[msgreenf]

the lack of clear documentation on what devices, what controllers, what os versions, what driver versions is the most confusing part of this whole thing

[jfh]

15 minutes ago, bk said:

1) No it does not, it stopped working months ago after an Amazon update and now only works on generation 1 Echo's that did not update.

An update was indicated back in September that was expected in about a week at the time.

Requests for when this may now be ready have fallen on deaf ears.

1) Yes it does, at least for me.  I’m running fine on 1.8/3.1.0/EA5. I can no longer discover devices through my Gen1 Echo, but doing so with a Gen3 Dot works fine as of two days ago.

Can’t help with your second point.  

[msgreenf]

 (However as long as ES is actively supporting the driver, I don’t see it as a big concern). 

pretty sure this is not something that is allowed if you are a documented control4 partner; so yes it's a problem. 

 

 

[bk]

6 minutes ago, jfh said:

1) Yes it does, at least for me.  I’m running fine on 1.8/3.1.0/EA5. I can no longer discover devices through my Gen1 Echo, but doing so with a Gen3 Dot works fine as of two days ago.

Can’t help with your second point.  

So you're running a gen1 Echo, that is why it's working for you as i said. The rest of us are still waiting on a fix!

[jfh]

26 minutes ago, msgreenf said:

pretty sure this is not something that is allowed if you are a documented control4 partner; so yes it's a problem.  is Epic systems?

As a user I could care less.  I have dozens of drivers and have no idea who is a “documented Control4 partner” and have never seen such a list. As was pointed out earlier it’s not like the ES driver is the first to have a problem after an OS change and is not the first to provide function that requires being outside the API box.  
 

Maybe the whole “Wild West” conversation belongs in its own thread rather than hijacking this one.

[AK1]

i think the key point is the severity of the "bug" in terms of bricking your controller coupled with a total lack of disclosure on the developer's web site. Even better would have been a proactive email to his clients alerting them of this possibility with an OS upgrade to OS 3.1.1. I would be way less concerned about about a bug in the normal course of business. But this bug is worthy of an immediate recall notice, to use an automobile industry analogy.

[chopedogg88]

Bricking your controller? Do you throw away a controller that you can't connect to temporarily (only with Composer Pro I might add), yet the system continues to function normally? If so I feel bad for your clients.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[AK1]

13 minutes ago, chopedogg88 said:

Bricking your controller? Do you throw away a controller that you can't connect to temporarily (only with Composer Pro I might add), yet the system continues to function normally? If so I feel bad for your clients.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 

I consider it "bricked" if any form of Composer Pro access is broken by the driver and the only course of recovery (without an unsupported OS hack) is to factory restore and reload project. Not to mention the impact, time and cost of doing so.

[loudsubz]

Been following this thread but didn't feel compelled to post until now.

I had the same issue happen with mine (hc800) running latest driver, went from 3.1.0 to 3.1.1. but only after I purposefully updated it after talking to Ari, getting feedback and troubleshooting on my own controller. Around the beginning of Jan I heard Jeremy making comments on the facebook group about the issue and since I had not heard anything reached out to Ari to see if he had any info, which he did not until he tried the update himself and found the issue and correct it with a patch right away.

Now I can relate to AK1 being in a jam, running circles etc to get a controller back to optimum running condition and then being upset about the whole process, on the other hand like Ari mentioned it only affected connectivity with composer pro so at that point I would have done some searching on the KB and FB/Online forums for answers.

 

Theres even a post on the official forums where Ari mentions:

 

We are aware of the issue, I provided Chris with a simple command which can be run on the controller to fix the issue, which is due to a bug in our driver which we've identified. Thanks for the heads-up Jeremy!

Ive had catastrophic failures when doing updates with C4, so this kind of issue is nothing new nor phases me anymore, as a technician/programmer you get used to it and figure out all the tips and tricks to get a system back up and running asap (image update tool etc)

 

[AK1]

24 minutes ago, loudsubz said:

Been following this thread but didn't feel compelled to post until now.

I had the same issue happen with mine (hc800) running latest driver, went from 3.1.0 to 3.1.1. but only after I purposefully updated it after talking to Ari, getting feedback and troubleshooting on my own controller. Around the beginning of Jan I heard Jeremy making comments on the facebook group about the issue and since I had not heard anything reached out to Ari to see if he had any info, which he did not until he tried the update himself and found the issue and correct it with a patch right away.

Now I can relate to AK1 being in a jam, running circles etc to get a controller back to optimum running condition and then being upset about the whole process, on the other hand like Ari mentioned it only affected connectivity with composer pro so at that point I would have done some searching on the KB and FB/Online forums for answers.

 

Theres even a post on the official forums where Ari mentions:

 

 

 

Ive had catastrophic failures when doing updates with C4, so this kind of issue is nothing new nor phases me anymore, as a technician/programmer you get used to it and figure out all the tips and tricks to get a system back up and running asap (image update tool etc)

 

I agree with all of the above.  The issue remans is Ari should have disclosed this issue on the Epic web site or via email to his licensees given the known severity of the outcome and the amount of time wasted to get back to an "unhacked" controller state. It makes no sense to expect a Dealer doing what should be a business-as-usual upgrade to visit this forum, dealer forums or the dealer KB . 

[loudsubz]

15 hours ago, AK1 said:

I agree with all of the above.  The issue remans is Ari should have disclosed this issue on the Epic web site or via email to his licensees given the known severity of the outcome and the amount of time wasted to get back to an "unhacked" controller state. It makes no sense to expect a Dealer doing what should be a business-as-usual upgrade to visit this forum, dealer forums or the dealer KB . 

I agree it would be nice for sure, and thinking from a business standpoint it should be standard practice, but even with other manufacturers a lot of times you have to go searching for the answers, it's not always readily available. That does't make this right I'm just pointing out. Ive had issues with other devices where some support guys werent even aware within their own company that there was a problem with a firmware on certai devices.

Ari, do you plan to have a new updated driver available on your website anytime soon or is the fix posted above currently all that will be available for the next little while?

[chopedogg88]

Sorry yes I should have updated the site but figured that when you get an issue where you can't connect to a controller from Composer, the first place you'd look would be the dealer KB and/or call support, rather than going to www.epic-systems.com.  In fact I ran into this issue the first time on one of my own customers' systems - called tech support, we had no idea it was related to our driver...they did the usual thing of running the "inspector" command on the controller which quickly identified that the nginx package had a problem, they ran the repair command and all was fixed within about 10 minutes on the phone.

I am also working on my email blast capabilities (without having them all end up in Spam folder)

Hopefully will have an updated driver soon.

Thank you all for your support of our "Dumpster Fire" driver which was released in 2015 (supporting the current hardware at the time which was Gen 1 Echos), and has been supported and updated to support every firmware release from Amazon and Control4 in the last 5 years...all included in the low price of $149!  Or for the early adopters, as low as $95.  At the time it was released, this was bleeding edge (read: risky) stuff, and those who purchased the driver knew that full well.  In fact, when buying our driver or any driver for that matter, one gets no guarantee of future support or compatibility.  Read the fine print on just about any driver you purchase before you come back to hate on the guy who has worked hard to simply give you an option to make your customer's systems cooler and bridge gaps where they exist.  If you don't set expectations with your customer, then you're doing yourself and them a disservice.

If I could only count how many hours (and customers paid for) that I've had to spend re-doing Apple TV drivers, Nest drivers, FireTV drivers that all stopped working...and those came from Control4 themselves!  But I guess they were "free" so, can't complain?

[chopedogg88]

19 hours ago, msgreenf said:

pretty sure this is not something that is allowed if you are a documented control4 partner; so yes it's a problem. 

 

 

Our driver has always worked this way, it was never an issue until this 3.1.1 update, when clearly they decided to monkey with the config files for some reason.  Control4 has had access to our driver and several of their field reps have actively promoted it to their dealer base.  Our driver uses their driverworks API just like every other driver, there was never any mention of not being able to modify any files on the controller, that I'm aware of.

[chopedogg88]

20 hours ago, msgreenf said:

the lack of clear documentation on what devices, what controllers, what os versions, what driver versions is the most confusing part of this whole thing

speaking of documentation...its actually explained pretty clearly on our website.  the confusion comes when you actually believe whatever unsubstantiated claims that others on this forum thread have decided to make, seeming to think that they know more about our driver than we do, given their large sample size of the one or two systems that they manage which have our driver as compared to us dealing with the entire customer base of thousands.

do we have the time/ability to test our driver with every single Echo device or 3rd party product with Alexa built in?  No we don't, so we don't document every device/OS version combination (would be in the thousands I suspect).

by the way, I just purchased your ReoLink camera driver...here is what's in the "Documentation" tab on the driver...awesome...the last line is the best part.

Driver for Reolink PTZ Cameras

Driver Features:
o    To activate trial please type trial in the license field
o    Support for H.264 video feeds
o    Supports Basic authentication
o    Loads basic driver meta data into control4 Composer Pro
o    Allows automated reboots of the camera
o    Home is set to preset1
o    Supports jumping to 6 presets
o    Supports motion detection events if enabled on the camera

Documentation
TBD
 

[chopedogg88]

oh and even better is that it costs $150 (a dollar more than a driver that allows you to voice control your entire home)!

[Amr]

9 minutes ago, chopedogg88 said:

oh and even better is that it costs $150 (a dollar more than a driver that allows you to voice control your entire home)!

Thank you Ari for making my life easier, I’ve had your driver since 2.5 years now, did not run on a single issue till date, basically I don’t have and can’t have the native C4 Alexa integration, as in my country OpenVPN is forbidden and I don’t even have 4Sight working at all.

[chopedogg88]

19 hours ago, AK1 said:

I consider it "bricked" if any form of Composer Pro access is broken by the driver and the only course of recovery (without an unsupported OS hack) is to factory restore and reload project. Not to mention the impact, time and cost of doing so.

In my experience, most people consider something "bricked" when its non-functional, cannot be recovered, and is basically a "brick" or "paper weight" and needs to be thrown in the garbage.  Not when there is a software glitch that can easily be recovered from by running inspector, removing a driver, etc...and the system is otherwise functioning normally for everything else.  But regardless, its semantics.  Sorry you had to waste your time on this issue and didn't contact us during this process.

[msgreenf]

speaking of documentation...its actually explained pretty clearly on our website.  the confusion comes when you actually believe whatever unsubstantiated claims that others on this forum thread have decided to make, seeming to think that they know more about our driver than we do, given their large sample size of the one or two systems that they manage which have our driver as compared to us dealing with the entire customer base of thousands.
do we have the time/ability to test our driver with every single Echo device or 3rd party product with Alexa built in?  No we don't, so we don't document every device/OS version combination (would be in the thousands I suspect).
by the way, I just purchased your ReoLink camera driver...here is what's in the "Documentation" tab on the driver...awesome...the last line is the best part.

Driver for Reolink PTZ Cameras
Driver Features:
o    To activate trial please type trial in the license field
o    Support for H.264 video feeds
o    Supports Basic authentication
o    Loads basic driver meta data into control4 Composer Pro
o    Allows automated reboots of the camera
o    Home is set to preset1
o    Supports jumping to 6 presets
o    Supports motion detection events if enabled on the camera

Documentation
TBD
 

Documentation is not in the driver, it's in the PDF attached to the zip

[AK1]

2 hours ago, chopedogg88 said:

"Sorry yes I should have updated the site but figured that when you get an issue where you can't connect to a controller from Composer, the first place you'd look would be the dealer KB and/or call support, rather than going to www.epic-systems.com. "

Which is exactly what I did if you refer to my original post. The point is I started at your web site to check for latest version and compatibility before commencing any work and that is when the time and money wasting began, all of which should have been totally avoidable if you had updated your web site proactively.

And to your point that I should have emailed you, that makes no sense because the symptoms initially pointed to a Composer / controller issue. A diligent dealer exhausts possibilities and researches issues before contacting vendor support e.g. rebooting controller, checking / reinstalling Composer, reviewing dealer KB...all of which lead me to this forum and thread. By then time wasting was well under way.

[jfh]

2 hours ago, chopedogg88 said:

If I could only count how many hours (and customers paid for) that I've had to spend re-doing Apple TV drivers, Nest drivers, FireTV drivers that all stopped working...and those came from Control4 themselves!  But I guess they were "free" so, can't complain?

Yeah, not sure how this situation is any different.  You certainly provide a lot more information to end users than C4 does when their drivers stop working because C4 or device firmware three a monkey wrench into the works.

Don’t let the naysayers and those that don’t bother to contact you for support bother you and know that there are many many customers that believe your Alexa driver is a key (if not they key) and invaluable driver for their C4 systems.

[bk]

On 9/26/2019 at 2:00 AM, chopedogg88 said:

Bryce, we are working on a fix, hopefully will have something within the week if all goes well.  With technology, I'm sure you know that you can't always provide an answer on when something will be fixed until you actually fix it

Hi Ari,

I have followed this up a couple of times with no response from you. In September 2019 you hopoed to have a fix to your driver for 2.10 in around 1 week.

Now 5 months or so on, can you please update me on when you expect this fix to be completed?

[chopedogg88]

We fixed the driver but it requires Os3. Not technically or financially feasible to fix for 2.10.

Solution is to buy a Gen 1 Echo or Dot for less than $20 on ebay if you must stay on 2.10 and want to continue to use our driver.

Thanks

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[bk]

2 hours ago, chopedogg88 said:

We fixed the driver but it requires Os3. Not technically or financially feasible to fix for 2.10.

Solution is to buy a Gen 1 Echo or Dot for less than $20 on ebay if you must stay on 2.10 and want to continue to use our driver.

Thanks

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 

Ok, yes the version for os3 was available at the time, not feasible for everybody to replace all toch screens etc.

It's ashame you have changed your mind on fixing the driver.