Control4 - Sonos - Seamless Integration?

[hank31980]

Control4 Installation is as follows;

Zone 1 = Kitchen

Zone 2 = Living Room

Currently I have an EA-1 streaming Napster & Tune-in from Control4 via the Ethernet Network to 2 Control4 Speaker Points. I can also stream from iPhone/iPad via the Control4 (Airplay) Sharebridge driver.

ALL GOOD SO FAR.

 

Control4 - Sonos initially 2 Zones.

However I may be changing the Audio endpoint system from Control4 Speaker points to Sonos devices, like Connect:Amps and/or Play 5's.

What I don't know is firstly how the hardware actually integrates? Has anyone got a simple explanation of what is required & how it is connected?

Looking at the EA-1 I imagine I would have to use an Analogue Stereo Output taken from the EA-1's HDMI port & convert it so it can be connected directly to the Line-in of say Zone-1's Connect:Amp?

How to create a second room using another Connect:Amp and/or second Play 5?

Do I have to feed the same Analogue input also into the Line-in of the second device or can the second device receive Digitized music over the network from the first Sonos Connect:Amp which has a connection to the EA-1?

 

Help appreciated, thanks.

 

hank31980

 

[jesseasmith]

Sonos can digitize and share it's analog input with other Sonos zones. However, there is a slight, 30-50ms delay, between the original Sonos, and the other Sonos zones. This is minimized if you manually turn audio compression off in Sonos settings menu.

While I used to love Sonos, their compatibility with sources has been great, but the direction they're headed has been very problematic. First, the GUI has gotten slower, and slower, and slower. Also, because they cut their staff in half, while trying to increase features, their quality has recently dropped off a cliff. They can't stream in high resolution, even with sources like Tidal, and forget about running more than 4-6 zones seamlessly without hiccups.

Their new interface is extremely buggy and laggy. Zones take forever to group and ungroup, and audio cuts out when streaming Tidal or Deezer at higher bitrates. Also, they've been releasing software updates and "fixes" every three days. They're trying so hard to push features, that they're doing it prematurely. (Anyone remember Apple's Copy & Paste conundrum of 2009?) I would rather a product fully develop and de-bug a solution, than be the "first" to release something and innudate the end user with endless updates and bugs.

It's not recommended to mix and match Control4 and Sonos. Either stick only with Sonos for a maginal experience and quality. Or go with a higher quality solution like Control4, and stick within each eco-system's capabilities.

Though you could digitize a Control4 output into Sonos, it would be a two step process to select the music in Control4, then set the Sonos to Auto Play, and then open the Sonos App to group other Sonos Zones with the original Sonos zone.

With the amount of functionality and features Sonos has been changing, with no regard for the end user's experience, I would rather stick with a company like Control4 that I know is committed to the End User, and quality or quantity, any day.

[msgreenf]

7 minutes ago, Chriscat said:

Thank you. All my connected programming just "broke" yesterday when my wife was prompted from her phone to update the Sonos app.

your project didn't break due to the Sonos update. The integration with SOnos broke. Everything else works fine still

[Chriscat]

Thank you. All my connected programming just "broke" yesterday when my wife was prompted from her phone to update the Sonos app.

[msgreenf]

Cyknight, With the c4 Sonos driver can you pause & resume play within c4 or only select a "favorite" to start as a source?
 
Thanks

You get full transport control and meta data

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[Chriscat]

Cyknight, With the c4 Sonos driver can you pause & resume play within c4 or only select a "favorite" to start as a source?

 

Thanks

[hank31980]

Thanks again for all of your answers.

I agree, there are no obvious issues apart from the aforementioned limitations.

Its an option now though, and for a small installation I can see it’s quite an attractive one.

Next is to try and hook an Echo Dot to see what it can do.

[Cyknight]

On 12/4/2017 at 8:59 PM, hank31980 said:

It sounds like it’s fraught with issues.

 

On 12/4/2017 at 8:59 PM, hank31980 said:

What I don’t get is the claims from Control4 website claiming seamless integration etc, it seems far from that, who’s over fault it is?

Just wanted to clear this up - There are no 'issues' with the Sonos integration in the form of things 'not working'.

 

The driver is very solid and reliable.

The PROBLEM lies in the limitations. Before, integration was complete with browsing, unlimited station selection etc. Since then it's been essentially downgraded to point where it's almost the same as 'airplay' in that you just select the source, and then need to use the 'original remote' (in this case app) to control the source.

[Gary Leeds UK]

Pick up a amazon Dot and give that go - You do not have to program any of the radio stations as favorites then "Alexa play Radio 1 in Kitchen" "Alexa increase Volume in Kitchen" 

it just becomes the normal. 

Also you can upload your all music to amazon and that now does the search for you  - Great piece of kit and hopefully will just get better 

[hank31980]

Thanks for your answers.

 

I gave it a go and hooked up a Sonos Connect to the Network. I then setup a couple of Play5's with this new Sonos configuration. Then I set a few Radio stations as favourites on the Sonos system, as I gather from your previous messages it is these favourites that are selected from Control4 navigators.

 

The Sonos drivers were added to the project & like you said, it worked well. I can see that the only limitation is the fact that you can only control the Sonos Favourites, but I guess you have 50 to choose from so plenty of scope to cover Radio, Streamed music, Playlists etc.

 

It seems that the beauty of this the fact that it is Wireless. It is easy to integrate to Control4. So I assume once the Playbar, Subs & Surrounds are setup on the Sonos system, then they also easily integrated into Control4.

 

 

[Gary Leeds UK]

We have Sonos is 3 Rooms and then have a play bar etc in the bedroom (Total 4 Rooms). 

Works great and can be be used with Alexa. 

If you are streaming go with Amazon or spotify and you will have no issue with Alexa. 

The new Sonos driver allows you to add drivers for new speakers so you do not need to wait for a dealer and

the integration is solid with C4 auto updates. 

[hank31980]

Wow, I thank you for your answers, although I didn’t expect that.

It sounds like it’s fraught with issues.

i was going to ask next about adding a Sonos sound bar, Sub and 2Play-1’s connected to a TV for surround sound purposes but if we can’t get 2 zones of basic stereo working then I think this next step would be nigh on impossible?

What I don’t get is the claims from Control4 website claiming seamless integration etc, it seems far from that, who’s over fault it is?

[msgreenf]

I’m still a Sonos fan and would recommend it to everyone.

Their rate of development far outpaces Control4 and they have more available services. The integration, while limited, isn’t a big issue.

I’ve got Sonos, Heos, Control4, and Mirage Media Server. Of them all Sonos is the clear winner.


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Disagree. Heos is an excellent experience. Yes they have less services than sonos but they have the ones I want and superior integration

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[sonic30101]

Also the new driver and api broke the audio input for 3rd party control systems so thst is a shame

[cdepaola]

Sonos itself can digitize and send anything input on one device to any other in the same setup. Wether it's ethernet or WiFi just depends on the device.
Where this will fail in C4 is that there is no clean way to select those inputs anymore, all you can really do is select the Sonos device, then you use the Sonos app to select what you listen to. So no, you CANNOT select WHAT you listen to on the first sonos, let alone join the second Sonos to it.
 
The short answer is - using SONOS WILL NOT GIVE YOU AN EXPERIENCE SIMILAR TO WHAT YOU HAVE.

True but for many folks they have 10-15 playlists they listen to regularly. You can obviously select these via Control4. If you listen to a different playlist all of the time then maybe Sonos isn’t for you. Even then the Sonos, Spotify, and pandora apps are far better at finding music then the Control4 app.


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[cdepaola]

I’m still a Sonos fan and would recommend it to everyone.

Their rate of development far outpaces Control4 and they have more available services. The integration, while limited, isn’t a big issue.

I’ve got Sonos, Heos, Control4, and Mirage Media Server. Of them all Sonos is the clear winner.


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[Cyknight]

Sonos itself can digitize and send anything input on one device to any other in the same setup. Wether it's ethernet or WiFi just depends on the device.

Where this will fail in C4 is that there is no clean way to select those inputs anymore, all you can really do is select the Sonos device, then you use the Sonos app to select what you listen to. So no, you CANNOT select WHAT you listen to on the first sonos, let alone join the second Sonos to it.

 

The short answer is - using SONOS WILL NOT GIVE YOU AN EXPERIENCE SIMILAR TO WHAT YOU HAVE.

[Home Theater Advisors]

You are mixing apples and oranges. You would use EITHER Sonos or Control4 steaming services.

So if you want a Sonos system, you would have a Sonos Connect:Amp for each room with architectural speakers or a Sonos Play speaker for rooms without built-in speakers. If you don’t have an audio matrix, that is. Then you would use the Sonos app for all of your music and not use C4 because of the deprecated integration.

OR use Control4 for streaming music and distribution. Get an EA3 to be the source so you can have 2 streams of audio into amplifiers/matrices. Or get a triad one per zone.

[hank31980]

OK understood, thanks for the prompt reply.

Just for my understanding though, I understand that my C4 Speaker-points currently receive either Analogue Audio via Line-in Stereo inputs &/or also Digital Audio via Network Ethernet port.

What method is there to best connect a Control4 system as in my example to just 2-Zones of Sonos amplifiers?

Is it simply the Analogue Line-in or can the Sonos Network do the job?

 

I would expect a similar experience to my speaker points.

 

Example 1

I Stream embedded Control4 Napster music to Zone 1 = Kitchen

I then want to add this Music stream to Zone 2 = Living Room.

I select Listen/Zones on C4 system and add to the already playing Zone 1 Audio using say my C4 Touchscreen.

How does that stream appear at the second Sonos device? is it via Ethernet Network, Wifi or what? or is it simply that I have to double up the physical Analogue connections from my EA-1 directly wired to both Sonos devices?

 

Sorry for longwinded example, just trying to understand Sonos & Control4?

[Cyknight]

Sonos integration was great, but Sonos (and if not primarily some of the streaming services Sonos supports) forced the old drivers to dissapear, creating a EXTREMELY limited API that severly limits how Sonos works INSIDE of Control4.

At this time, It's not advisable to change to Sonos devices (assuming you want to keep things in C4) because of that. And frankly, I see no major change coming.

 

If you want to up your current setup (and stick with Control4) I'd suggest going for the Tria One, the successor to the Speakerpoint, which is far superior in quality.

[hank31980]

Have you had it yourself and struggled?

[wappinghigh]

If you haven't purchased Sonos yet my advice would be don't bother.. W