Will Control4 follow what Crestron did with Pyng?

[therockhr]

Reading more about Crestron Pyng the more intrigued I am by it. Crestron has been notorious over the years for basically saying that their system is way to complicated for anyone who is not a programmer or integrator to install and configure. It has also been notorious for having a starting point of around 10 grand. That is why I am suprised to see Crestron Pyng. Pyng is now the cheapest control system out there from the big automation dealers (Control4, Crestron, AMX, RTI, URC).

 

So what made Crestron do this? I have a couple of ideas:

 

First, people around the ages of 25-45 are now able to afford homes in the $200,000 - $700,00 range. This age group has been around technology and computers their whole lives. They are comfortable having a computer do things for them automatically. This group is much more likely than past generations to invest in some sort of home automation. Problem is an entry level Crestron system is not in their budget. Something in the $1000 - $3000 is something that they can live with though. People in this range of houses don't need control of an entry gate, pool/spa or wine cellar. A system that controls lights, shades, temperature, door locks and a security system meets the needs of about 90% of potential buyers.

 

Second, the decoupling of home automation and AV control. For me, AV control and home automation are 2 different animals. AV control can either be sophisticated enough for thousands of lines of custom code or it can be as simple as programming the cable/satellite remote to control a TV. Take for instance the AV needs of the average family in the demographic I outlined earlier. If they purchased a directv genie they would have whole house DVR to 4 ares of viewing (family room, master bedroom, 2 kids rooms). The family room would probably have an AVR with the satellite box, streaming device, game console and blu ray player. All of that could be controlled with the supplied Directv remote. If the family wanted whole home audio, they could easily add Sonos to the AVR and put a few Play devices in other rooms.

 

AV control also does not need to be tied to a continuous controller. AV actions are generated from the user and can be carried out through macros. While it might sound cool to have music come on when you enter a room or have it wake you up in the morning, chances are you will find it annoying after the first few times. Now it may be convenient to have the lights dim when someone turns the TV on but that is the user generating an action, not the system waiting on a condition.

 

So if you are scoping out a control system for the 90%, it makes sense to drop AV control. It makes even more sense when you think about what the future holds for that area. If apple, google and samsung ever get serious they could change things very quickly.

 

So does anyone think Control4 tries to penetrate the small, but growing market of automation hubs that are out there now (Pyng, Lowes Iris, Revolv, Smartthings, Staples Connect, etc.). Would control4 make a HC-100 that only had ethernet, wifi and zigbee and could be configured through the app without using or purchasing Composer HE? A hypothetical HC-100 that cost < $500 that controlled control4 zigbee lighting, nest thermostats, kwikset locks and a honeywell security system would make for a very interesting product.  

[Gary Leeds UK]

Control4 will just sit on there hands - That's why the share price is back down $13.

 

Its a shame but they need to allow end users to add and remove bits of kit.

 

HE is OK but they can not see that opening up to allow users to add and remove bits of kit - Will open up new markets.

 

Control4 lite could be a way forward,

 

Shame

[Cyknight]

Who knows. I like the idea of the product (though it's current implementation seems rather limited/locked down - not the type of devices, but the brand lockdown) - though I'm not so sure Crestron is in the right position to pull it off.

It's still dealer based to be clear - and I'm having a hard time seeing the dealers I know carry let alone push this.

[RAV]

Pyng is dealer only setup, not consumer positioned.

 

Dealer logs in, setups, leaves for client who then only has access to basic scene settings.

Requires a dealer password to get back into section to add, modify etc.

 

Personally it felt aimed at electricians, maybe their answer to RA. "Mr. Electrician, sell this and then hand off to an integrator to do the rest...."

[Cyknight]

Control4 will just sit on there hands - That's why the share price is back down $13.

 

Its a shame but they need to allow end users to add and remove bits of kit.

 

HE is OK but they can not see that opening up to allow users to add and remove bits of kit - Will open up new markets.

 

Control4 lite could be a way forward,

 

Shame

 

PYNG from a user perspective is no more or less than HE.

[dogdvr]

Pyng in some ways is less than HE

 

i,e. try using it to make a double press on your light switch turn on your audio to a favorite channel.

 

 

Brent

[therockhr]

Personally it felt aimed at electricians, maybe their answer to RA. "Mr. Electrician, sell this and then hand off to an integrator to do the rest...."

 

Going after that market that Radio RA has isn't a bad idea; it seems to be a pretty popular.

 

Let's say a builder of a planned neighborhood comes up to you and says he has 30 homes that they want automated. Total hardware cost needs to be < $2000 and needs to control security, some lights, door locks and temperature. No touch screens just want the future homeowners to download an app where they can customize scenes. Is there another product that could do this as effortlessly as Pyng? That isn't a rhetorical question. Is there another product that seems to be as easy? Revolv?

[Cyknight]

Depends, Control4 can do exactly that already - once it's setup all people would need is get the app, type in the credentials and go.

If every scene is just named after the button (so to speak) you can now edit lighting scenes from the app (tablets, not phones).

And C4 is no more difficult to setup than PYNG, more so with Composer Express now out.

Hardware would be a bit more for the central controller, then again the limit on devices is higher on an HC-250.

[Tokead]

I'd love to have access to Express. I'd do the simple stuff and work with my dealer for everything else. Simple for me is lights

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[therockhr]

Depends, Control4 can do exactly that already - once it's setup all people would need is get the app, type in the credentials and go.

If every scene is just named after the button (so to speak) you can now edit lighting scenes from the app (tablets, not phones).

And C4 is no more difficult to setup than PYNG, more so with Composer Express now out.

Hardware would be a bit more for the central controller, then again the limit on devices is higher on an HC-250.

 

Interesting.

 

What if Control4 made a HC-100 hub (that could control around 50 devices) like I mentioned earlier but marketed as a DIY product. Still had to buy from a dealer but the homeowner could buy it is a package. Say the HC-100 and some dimmers for a little < $1000. The homeowner can only install and configure the system from Composer Express. At this time they don't even know about Pro or HE. Only Control4 dimmers and switches, select thermostats (the control4 and say the Nest) and the Kwikset lock would work with the HC-100. These would be the only products that could be DIY. If the homeowner wanted to expand the system to AV, different lighting, different thermostats, etc. they would work with a dealer and add on a HC-250.

 

With a DIY HC-100 option it would get some people in the door who would never had used C4. Also, considering the small amount of time it would take a dealer to install those few devices, it wouldn't be worth their time to do a job that small. Easier to just get a little bit of margin from selling the package.

 

I really think this is what Pyng will be in the end. Probably didnt want to shock their dealers with that news right now but I can't see them making the interface so polished and not offering it to end users. They could have just made the pyng hub and have the installer use System Builder to configure.

[Cyknight]

The point in no small part of the PYNG is to make it easier for installers - thus less expensive.

[therockhr]

The point in no small part of the PYNG is to make it easier for installers - thus less expensive.

 

You may be correct, I just think that Crestron is setting itself up to enter a market that has a lot of potential.

 

What would you say is the most popular "package" that you install for your customers (I am asking all dealers here)? Is it controlling a home theater, controlling just home automation (lights, thermostats, locks), whole home audio, whole home video, or the full blown package that controls everything?

[therockhr]

Also, watch the video from their site http://www.crestron.com/products/crestron_pyng_home_automation_ipad_app/default.asp I just can't see them making it this easy to install devices but and not have some sort of DIY option.

 

I don't think it is a coincidence that they are supporting the Honeywell security systems (the Vista panel is what ADT uses I believe). I think that Crestron has taken a small hit from ADT Pulse and Alarm.com and want to have an option that works in the price point of those. I don't know exactly the model of those systems but I believe a security dealer sets the system up but the end user is able to add devices? I may be wrong.

[dogdvr]

You are connecting a lot of points there. But I think you will find that they created the app, (like Control4 did) to help their dealers.

 

DIY might be in the future cards but it in nowhere close

 

sorry

[Cyknight]

Yes, the same conclusion can indeed be made for Express.

One could speculate if it's a move towards, but I'd temper excitement for a 'next month' flip in direction.

[therockhr]

You are connecting a lot of points there. But I think you will find that they created the app, (like Control4 did) to help their dealers.

 

DIY might be in the future cards but it in nowhere close

 

sorry

 

 

Yes, the same conclusion can indeed be made for Express.

One could speculate if it's a move towards, but I'd temper excitement for a 'next month' flip in direction.

 

Yeah i am jumping around on a lot of different points. I agree with both of you that they are not going DIY anytime soon but they have set themselves up to if they want to move into that direction.

 

It still just seems very strange for a company like Crestron, who have basically carved their place in the market as the most expensive and most difficult to program, come out with the cheapest and what seems to be the easiest control system to program. I did read somewhere that ADT Pulse was doing really well and maybe Crestron is trying to get into that entry level market. As Cyknight said in another thread, he couldnt see any dealers he knew move to this. I believe he is right, I think they are targeting security system dealers who are not programmers or integrators.

[qVAMPIREp]

I think Crestron simply sees the future more clearly than others.... HA is going to be installed and configured by owners not dealers and they are applying left rudder as fast as they can, but the AppleGoogleberg is freakin' gigantic!

[RyanE]

They're not applying much rudder as of yet.  Pyng gear is still only sold and installed by Crestron dealers, as far as I can tell.

 

It also appears that Pyng is pretty separate from the rest of the Crestron ecosystem.  i.e., if you have a Pyng system, you can't add DM or other 'high-end' Crestron devices, only their InfiNet (ZigBee HA) devices, and only 50 of those.

 

If you want to use both (Pyng and 'legacy' Crestron), you have to have the Crestron controller as well as the Pyng controller.  At that point, the Pyng controller is redundant (the legacy controller can control everything), other than the Pyng UI setup is easer.

 

RyanE

[qVAMPIREp]

They're not applying much rudder as of yet.  Pyng gear is still only sold and installed by Crestron dealers, as far as I can tell.

 

 

RyanE

Of course not, you know what happened to the Titanic! Too little too late, total denial and a sense of invincibility...

[RyanE]

I just find it unlikely that Crestron, who doesn't even have something like ComposerHE would release anything as DIY.

Also, many DIY solutions are trying to come upmarket, wanting higher profit margins and longer term customers. Heading right for the CEDIA channel...

Just things to consider.

RyanE

[badjesus]

At CEDIA, there were a few DIY products behind closed doors from some major brands that used to be complete CI that are coming to market for retail *starter* options.  
The whole industry is going to change soon, but I believe for the better. CI will still always be around, and more complex installs will always require a dealer or a talented DIY'er.

The companies are starting to realize that a retail product to get people in the door is what is required to really start pushing their more custom solutions. 

You get a guy doing lighting, door locks, RFID, Garage Doors, thermostats right out of the box and allow it to be expandable to more complex solutions with video and audio distribution, full automation, custom applications, etc. 

 

We are pushing a lot of C4 installs on the builder front, custom CI front but there are A LOT of customers from the retail front that we turn over to our CI division. I truly feel any company that does not start adopting that thinking is going to go bye bye. I would be surprised if Creston and C4 do not already realize this and even more surprised if they are unaware of what their competition has around the corner. There is no doubt in my mind that express and pyng while still meant for dealers, is their way of getting their foot into the door for this change without scaring dealers.  

 

Truth be told though, the custom market will never cease to exist, and in my opinion will only be enhanced when everyone hits retail. 

[badjesus]

Of course not, you know what happened to the Titanic! Too little too late, total denial and a sense of invincibility...

 

This is very true! But retail will only help drive it. There is only so much that DIY can really do. No one is going to attempt honeywell alarm integrations over RS232 for the average end user DIY. 

There is only so far DIY can go before you need custom. But imagine your customer base 10 fold what it is now. 

[RyanE]

I'm not putting my head in the sand, I know the diy stuff will continue to improve, and Control4 definitely is watching the diy market.

I just don't think Pyng is the bees knees, although they did have a few cool features I'd like to see added to composer express.

RyanE

[qVAMPIREp]

This is very true! But retail will only help drive it. There is only so much that DIY can really do. No one is going to attempt honeywell alarm integrations over RS232 for the average end user DIY. 

There is only so far DIY can go before you need custom. But imagine your customer base 10 fold what it is now. 

That's exactly how I see it as well! The current model can not adequately support 1000's of owners wanting to add a Bluray player, driver or light switch. When I call in a dealer it should be for professional help like system design, home theatre design, prewire, rack design, programming etc. After the systems up and running owners should be free to do as they please, after all we bought the system. Either play on their own and ask for help if needed or just stay 100% dealer.

 

Once consumers build their own starter systems with Apple or Google you will never get them to try C4. 

[Gary Leeds UK]

At $13.24 a share I would be serious looking at the DIY Market. 

 

They need something to lift the share price. 

 

Who as the balls to buy ???