Just Add Power Video Distribution Vs Video Matrix

[atsokolas79]

I am moving on to the next phase of my project and we are looking into the video distribution.  

 

I have 13 video zones and would like to incorporate the in ceiling speakers to play while the tv is on because the sound on the flat screens are not that great.

 

I will have, 4 cable boxes, Blue ray player, security camera recorder, apple TV, and maybe a game station as my sources. 

 

I have had 2 different C4 companies do work for me, they have different opinions as to the direction on the video system. One company says Just add power, the other says Matrix. What are your thoughts, keep in mind i am just a consumer so i know very little about this stuff, so if you can,  please give me the child explanation as to which way to go on this. 

 

http://www.justaddpower.com/index.html

 

 

FROM THE COMPANY THAT WANTS TO USE MATRIX

Just add Power issues;

 

I heard back from my engineering team and they had the following to say about HDoverIP:

•Its possible to be less expensive depending on the configuration, but it can be comparable for most configurations

•Would not recommend using it with a Audio Matrix as there is almost certainly going to be lip sync issues with the Audio and the Video to the Tvs

•Does not give you full 1080p or 4k capabilities as HDoverIP compresses the video signal using an JPEG format. Translation, not the best picture quality to the Tvs

•Requires additional Managed Network Switch and Controller (both not inexpensive)

•Needs power behind the TV for the receiver

•More power, and space, needed in rack area for the sender making for a cluttered rack

Based on what I've read about it and what I got back from engineering, this technology MAY be the a big player in the future, but right now the performance and reliability does not match what you get from a HDMI Matrix.

 

THE REBUTTAL FROM THE COMPANY THAT RECOMMENDED JAP:

Comments on JAP are close, but I have all the issues worked out. 2G+ allows audio lip sync adjustment. He may write a driver but I use these in the real world.

 

That’s also a reason to use the Control4 Matrix. It has audio delay adjustment.

 

[cdepaola]

You'll hear lots of opinions, some I'd listen to more then others. 

 

JAP makes a good product and I personally like it as it offers some great features and options to easily grow your system.  Many of the arguments your CI make are a bit bogus, at least as I see it. 

 

• Lip sync issues can be resolved though it takes some work.
• The picture quality is excellent and at least in my opinion isn't an issue unless your using it on a reference quality theater set-up. 
• The receivers don't require power behind the TV, they are POE so power comes over the Cat6. 
• It does require a Managed Switch, no inexpensive but not outrageous
• The rack shouldn't be cluttered at all if your installer is any good, this really is nonsensical 

 

With that said I also really like the Matrix from Hydraconnect. Their switcher handles HDMI distribution as well as act as Audio Matrix switches, so one unit does the work of two. It is a 16input/16output HDMI matrix and 16x16 Audio Matrix (Analog & Digital signals). The features really go on and on. This really is the top of the line.

 

If you need cheaper there are other options as well just not as fully featured. 

[Matt Lowe]

Video storm would be another one i suggest you look at. They have netplay audio switch that incorporates the lip sync.

 

Pros for IP distribution

Additional media options such as pandora for your local devices.

Uses same compression as Blu-ray

can scale similar to JAP. add tvs or sources as needed.

Control IO for each of your tv locally

[atsokolas79]

You'll hear lots of opinions, some I'd listen to more then others. 

 

JAP makes a good product and I personally like it as it offers some great features and options to easily grow your system.  Many of the arguments your CI make are a bit bogus, at least as I see it. 

 

• Lip sync issues can be resolved though it takes some work.
• The picture quality is excellent and at least in my opinion isn't an issue unless your using it on a reference quality theater set-up. 
• The receivers don't require power behind the TV, they are POE so power comes over the Cat6. 
• It does require a Managed Switch, no inexpensive but not outrageous
• The rack shouldn't be cluttered at all if your installer is any good, this really is nonsensical 

 

With that said I also really like the Matrix from Hydraconnect. Their switcher handles HDMI distribution as well as act as Audio Matrix switches, so one unit does the work of two. It is a 16input/16output HDMI matrix and 16x16 Audio Matrix (Analog & Digital signals). The features really go on and on. This really is the top of the line.

 

If you need cheaper there are other options as well just not as fully featured. 

These are the parts he recommended.

 

He had just 4 receivers on the qoute, so technically does that mean i only have 4 tv's working? and each of my other tv's will require a receiver?

 

Will that switch support a total of 13 tv locations and maybe 8 sources?

 

Just Add Power HDMI over IP Rackmount Transmitter. 2G+ 1- $1850.00

Just Add Power HDMI Receiver 2G+ POE- $587 each

Cisco 28-Port Managed Switch for use with Just Add Power- $1252

[cdepaola]

The switch is fine and appropriately sized. However they appear to only be handling 3 sources and 4 TV's.

That's a lot of TV's!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[atsokolas79]

The switch is fine and appropriately sized. However they appear to only be handling 3 sources and 4 TV's.

That's a lot of TV's!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

So it sounds like i need another transmitter, or possibly 2 more. Are The sources i have below considered 8 sources? 

 

4 cable boxes, Blue ray player, security camera recorder, apple TV, and maybe a game station 

 

 

 

I probably won't use all the tv's but i would like to have a system that is capable of handling it. i counted wrong only 12

 

Living room

kitchen

master bed

2- other bedrooms

basement

garage

back yard

4 bathroom tv- (optional)

[cdepaola]

Ok... First, most folks do Bluray as a local source only, it's a pain to go to the rack to put in a disk.

How many people do you have in the house? You have 4 cable boxes, but if there are only two of you then 4 won't do you much good but cost you money. If Ya need 4 then Ya need them but if you don't then save the rental and cost of distribution equipment.

I'd have your dealer quote out the project better, that is all your zones/ sources and labor/programming. Have him include part numbers, so you know exactly what your getting.

Also have him quote a 16x16 hydraconnect matrix.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[turls]

What game station?  The newer controllers stink on range compared to the old, at least 360 vs. Xbox One.  Keep that in mind.

 

You don't need that many cable boxes is my guess.  You think you need that many but can your cable boxes share recordings?  You only need as many cable boxes as you will have people watching unique programming at the same time.

 

They also didn't have a zone dedicated to Control4 UI.  You can get your cameras through that, plus C4 functionality.  That isn't absolutely necessary, but to me it makes more sense than dedicating an input to security only.

 

If you have sources you can live with in only one zone you can dedicate those sources to an AVR that drives that zone.  I do that with a lot of stuff.  I have things like VCR, Fire TV, etc in only one zone (I already have zones dedicated to Xbox One, Roku, and Apple TV).  That kept me in a 8x8 matrix pretty comfortably.  Biggest thing with JAP is being able to have odd numbers of sources and zones.

 

Also with Xbox One it has a HDMI input so you can get a bonus zone with that with a little work.

 

You might do some searches if you haven't already.  A lot of JAP has been discussed, and the product hasn't changed that much so most discussion is still relevant.  For that matter matrix pricing and features haven't changed much in the past 2-3 years.

[Cyknight]

Lip sync issues can be resolved though it takes some work.

 

 

Actually with the 2G+ stuff you can use the break-out if you wish and eliminate lipsynh. Also the units are adjustable for that very reason.

More importantly - ANY video switch you use COULD have lipsynch issues with an (any) audio matrix out of the box...kind of a non point.

 

•Does not give you full 1080p or 4k capabilities as HDoverIP compresses the video signal using an JPEG format. Translation, not the best picture quality to the Tvs

 

 BS concerning 1080p, 4k - there is not really a certified 4k distribution out there - and most current matrix switches don't do 4K. Yes image is compressed - 95+%  of people don't see the difference side by side.

 

•Requires additional Managed Network Switch and Controller (both not inexpensive)

 

Controller? WHAT controller - non-sense. Managed switch yes, but that should be included in the price quote

 

•Needs power behind the TV for the receiver

 

As mentioned, PoE is AVAILABLE - though note you'd need to get the correct version. Plus MOST (including all HDBaseT) matrix switches require power behind the TV....

 

•More power, and space, needed in rack area for the sender making for a cluttered rack

 

3 in one units are also available for rack mounting to limit this 'clutter' Space wise, somewhat true. Beyond that, learn to manage a rack.

 

 

Based on what I've read about it and what I got back from engineering, this technology MAY be the a big player in the future, but right now the performance and reliability does not match what you get from a HDMI Matrix.

 

 

Phaw. You read nothing. Complete ballony. JAP's been around for YEARS. Performance and reliability are great - and no less than HDMI matrix switches. Indeed, I've had less issues with JAP then with some HDBaseT units.

 

 

I use both matrix (over HDBaseT - several brands) and JAP - both are excellent choices that fit in the right application. I do NOT have a specific preference for on or the other. It purely depends on the application.

 

Some added info:

JAP has it's own driver that works very well.

Blackwire also provides a driver if you buy via them (and possibly on request, they'd have to answer that).

JAP's version is more versatile allowing serial control and videowall control - but is more work to set-up and maintain (do additions). Blackwire is so simple to setup even the most basic C4 dealer can do it, really no harder than using any other matrix option that has a driver. JAP uses up one port on the switch, Blackwire does not.

As for in/out options - there are two ways to calculate your POTENTIAL

-one for the JAP driver which is [ports on switch] - 1 = your total option for sources and endpoints (whatever combo you want). In other words that 28 port can do a '27' setup - be it 10 in and 17 out or 20 in and 7 out or ...

-for blackwire: [ports on switch] = your potential. So it can do 10 in 18 out or 20 in and 8 out or....

 

It sounds a LOT like whomever is giving you the negative JAP info really doesn't WANT to do JAP - to their own detriment.

[Cyknight]

Ok... First, most folks do Bluray as a local source only, it's a pain to go to the rack to put in a disk.

 

What game station?  The newer controllers stink on range compared to the old, at least 360 vs. Xbox One.  Keep that in mind.

 

This isn't the case that I've noticed for PS4 vs PS3 (and I'd have noticed).

 

But THIS is exactly where JAP (and similar) shine - you can easily HAVE that BluRay or game console in a convenient location AND have it distributed - the single transmitter just sits at the local source with a single CAT going back down to the central switch.

Indeed, just did one yesterday where a BluRay, WiiU and PS4 are in a central location where disks/games can be easily swapped and controllers are usuable at most TVs and there's a single 3-in-1 transmitter in the same space, while the other 9 sources are rack-mounted.

[Kevin L]

just to add a few comments.. JAP will do 4K and itll work WITH the current 2G products. IE mix and match.(4k parts for 4k tvs and sources). Any other system will need to be completely removed

 

Cyknight hit everything else on the head.

 

BTW there are also the new AVP receivers that have a dolby chipset and mixer built in 

[eggzlot]

I went with an IP solution - video Storm was referenced above and I picked it over JAP. I liked the fact that it had Xbmc, dlna/AirPlay audio built in and also allowed to integrate IP cameras and not take up an input on the switch/encoder. It also allows for video walls, multi feeds on the tv (ie if you have 4 cable boxes you can watch all 4 at a time on one tv).

Support is great. I had a hdmi handshake sync issue with an AVR. They replicated it and pushed out a firmware upgrade within days. They release firmware upgrades with new features regularly. One I can't wait for is the ability to stream content to a mobile device when you are on mobile data (think slingbox).

You won't have lip sync issues if you use their audio switch too. And netplay had audio streaming built in so you can stream pandora and other streaming services, stream your iTunes etc.

You may need power behind the TV as they are not PoE but doesn't the TV require power :-). Usually outlets come in 2 or 4 outlet configurations. Power shouldn't be an issue.

[eggzlot]

Left off another feature. On screen text or video. When I hit the sleep timer button on my remote (simple room off command) I have text on TV say 90 min sleep timer. When a doorbell rings if the TV is in you can have a few cameras pop up picture in picture style if you will.

Some really cool features with IP systems.

[Cyknight]

AP will do 4K and itll work WITH the current 2G products. IE mix and match.(4k parts for 4k tvs and sources).

 

 

Oh? This upcoming?

 

That's another HUGE positive then.

[RAV]

Distributed risks with JAP.

 

If a unit has a 'bad' event, you'll replace a sub $2000 piece not $5,000-10,000+

Also if a unit has an issue, you don't loose the whole system while it's being serviced. (unless it's the managed switch)

 

Not saying either has a history, but stuff happens to electronics.

[eggzlot]

Oh? This upcoming?

 

That's another HUGE positive then.

JAP and Video Storm are fairly similar in this regard as VS will handle 4k with a firmware update: http://www.video-storm.com/Downloads/netplayvid_future.htm

[Cyknight]

Hmmm. At 100 Mbp/s I wonder how they'll do 4K? Plus - scale to final resolution? I'd rather not have the distribution do the scaling.....

I'm not entirely sure about VS taking a 4K source and auto-scaling to lower resolutions either....

 

That said, I'll keep an eye on it.

[videostorm]

4K sources encode perfectly at bit rates between 40 to 60 Mbps using h.264 (NetPlay).  Our 4k encoder encodes the stream at native resolution and also at sub resolutions (1080p in this case).  The downscaling is very high quality.

 

The decoders will always try to display the signal as native on the TVs.  The tv side scaling is only used when needed to make things work.

 

To be clear, the 4K encoders and 4K decoders are new hardware (not a firmware update).  The 4K hardware will work seamlessly with 1080p hardware.