Don't see control4 going diy anytime soon

[THEORY]

It's the same if not better than MS or Apples software. Just read all the complaints after a new release and watch all the patches.

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It is nothing even close to the same magnitude,  and for those companies if bugs are reported and are happening en mass, they are fixed prior to release.  With almost every other company you know what exactly was fixed, with an extensive list of changes and bug fixes in the logs.

 

Here is the major difference, Control4 is an integrated system that runs your home, imagine you bought a car and had all the glitches and bugs in the system that runs your car.  You wouldn't be able to drive for more then an hour.  Sure they sell a large number of cars, but these systems are tested, and ensured to be stable before they even hit the dealership floor.  That means they do all the testing on a handful of cars.

 

Sure a dealer can introduce issues into the system also, but there needs to be a rock solid platform, that is known to very rarely if ever have an issue.  Great near flawless experiences by existing users will translate to more sales.

 

I've been part of beta programs, with Microsoft (Consumer, Enterprise), Apple, UEI, Sonos, Trend Micro, Control4, and many others be it hardware and/or software, let's just say the quality of those products is pretty much directly reflective of sales growth, and the beta programs all those companies have reflective the quality of what goes out the door.

[THEORY]

It's the same if not better than MS or Apples software. Just read all the complaints after a new release and watch all the patches.

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Please highlight what you feel in the program makes it better than MS or Apples beta, even the parts you see as the equal.

[msgreenf]

It is nothing even close to the same magnitude,  and for those companies if bugs are reported and are happening en mass, they are fixed prior to release.  With almost every other company you know what exactly was fixed, with an extensive list of changes and bug fixes in the logs.

 

Here is the major difference, Control4 is an integrated system that runs your home, imagine you bought a car and had all the glitches and bugs in the system that runs your car.  You wouldn't be able to drive for more then an hour.  Sure they sell a large number of cars, but these systems are tested, and ensured to be stable before they even hit the dealership floor.  That means they do all the testing on a handful of cars.

 

Sure a dealer can introduce issues into the system also, but there needs to be a rock solid platform, that is known to very rarely if ever have an issue.  Great near flawless experiences by existing users will translate to more sales.

 

I've been part of beta programs, with Microsoft (Consumer, Enterprise), Apple, UEI, Sonos, Trend Micro, Control4, and many others be it hardware and/or software, let's just say the quality of those products is pretty much directly reflective of sales growth, and the beta programs all those companies have reflective the quality of what goes out the door.

 

 

It's called MyFord Touch - the big bug that runs the AV in my car....

[THEORY]

I have friends, that own Fords and although the AV interface isn't very intuitive, I wouldn't say it's a bug.  It also doesn't cause your cars interior lights to not work, or your signals to stop flashing, or your engine to not run correctly.  Everything nowadays is pretty much a computer underneath it's surface, some are more advanced some less so.  Few are as important as a system that runs your home and merges all your systems into one.

[msgreenf]

I have friends, that own Fords and although the AV interface isn't very intuitive, I wouldn't say it's a bug. It also doesn't cause your cars interior lights to not work, or your signals to stop flashing, or your engine to not run correctly. Everything nowadays is pretty much a computer underneath it's surface, some are more advanced some less so. Few are as important as a system that runs your home and merges all your systems into one.

Clearly you never owned a ford w myford touch. When it wasn't working right and read up about it - consumer reports panned the entire car for it. When mine didn't work I couldn't turn my air on and the car just blew hot air from engine into the cabin. So yea that was a major problem.

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[CFUG]

^Ouch.  Acura MDXs suck too.  So difficult just to adjust the aircon it's no wonder why there aren't more rear-end collisions involving these cars.

[cdepaola]

The dealers on this forum all make good arguments, though some of them are biased arguments. Exclusivity is what they want, what they have, and what they will fight to keep. I don't fault them for this of course because it's their business and livelihood.

I also do believe they are spot on with the issues DIY could cause. The problem though, in my eyes, is they are now a public company. Investors expect results and when they don't get them things can go bad quickly. Had C4 stayed private then I'd have complete faith in long term success, but that's not the case.

Google just announced their software for integrating IoT devices, obviously apple has done the same. Yes neither of these do what C4 does, yet. More devices from cars, to tv's and refrigerators are building in support for communication with our smart phones or they are downright using the OS to power their product. Still doesn't do all that C4 can do. In the end even this doesn't matter because Google and Apple will always be a more powerful marketer then C4. Given a choice more consumers will follow apple/Google and be happy. It's not about what you can do, it's about how many people hear you and covet your product.

So unless C4 figures out how to market louder, bring down prices, and convince the middle class that C4 is the best option, I don't know how they don't go back to being a private company with an emphasis on staying niche.

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[c4user3622]

They would either go through a bankruptcy or someone would buy out the outstanding shares for them to go back to being private. Either way this valuation will be impossible for them to maintain especially with their projected growth rates.

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[Chuck]

I bet they could, its just too expensive....

 

Subscription model... There are tons of tech support companies out there with the infrastructure to support the DIY people.. there is also pay per call.

 

What you don't see is that the votes are in. SOME of the dealers on here are too protective.. If C4 keeps the propriety model, you will not have a product to "deal". C4 is getting passed by little by little every day.

 

The dealer model is dying a slow death. The reason C4 wants to keep it is they have 100's and 1000's of commission only sales people. No 401K, no health insurance, (I am assuming), and the dealers pay for them for training.

 

If I were a dealer, I would be very angry. The hardware is really good for the most part. Control 4 is in a unique place and they just are not taking advantage of it... Missing the boat if you will.. They should be Driving the HA industry. Period. They should be the central point of all automation by building interfaces to every piece of hardware in the "internet of things" industry.

[Chuck]

They would either go through a bankruptcy or someone would buy out the outstanding shares for them to go back to being private. Either way this valuation will be impossible for them to maintain especially with their projected growth rates.

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Exactly.  

[Chuck]

The dealers on this forum all make good arguments, though some of them are biased arguments. Exclusivity is what they want, what they have, and what they will fight to keep. I don't fault them for this of course because it's their business and livelihood.

I also do believe they are spot on with the issues DIY could cause. The problem though, in my eyes, is they are now a public company. Investors expect results and when they don't get them things can go bad quickly. Had C4 stayed private then I'd have complete faith in long term success, but that's not the case.

Google just announced their software for integrating IoT devices, obviously apple has done the same. Yes neither of these do what C4 does, yet. More devices from cars, to tv's and refrigerators are building in support for communication with our smart phones or they are downright using the OS to power their product. Still doesn't do all that C4 can do. In the end even this doesn't matter because Google and Apple will always be a more powerful marketer then C4. Given a choice more consumers will follow apple/Google and be happy. It's not about what you can do, it's about how many people hear you and covet your product.

So unless C4 figures out how to market louder, bring down prices, and convince the middle class that C4 is the best option, I don't know how they don't go back to being a private company with an emphasis on staying niche.

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Google and Apple will take all of the people that are middle of the road and really only want/need some of the HA features. As the developer community grows, there will be no stopping them. I have been saying for years that the next billion dollar company will be the one that develops the app that controls all of the other apps. Guess I was right (for a change)

[Gary Leeds UK]

Dealer model is struggling to cope our side of the pond - Waiting 5 weeks so far for a Electric TV bracket to be fitted and

programmed.

[blub]

Yup I do agree with that:

 

I have not seen any word of C4 in any HE magazine in Germany

There is almost no to none word about C4 in HE forums - and there are many

The hardware pricing is ridiculous even without the programming costs, sometimes is is US pricing +30% in EUR.

[c4user3622]

If the next quarter is bad (and we'll find out very soon) it's not going to be pretty. The stock buyback announcement basically tells me the company is delusional about why their stock price is low.

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[Gary Leeds UK]

Yup I do agree with that:

 

I have not seen any word of C4 in any HE magazine in Germany

There is almost no to none word about C4 in HE forums - and there are many

The hardware pricing is ridiculous even without the programming costs, sometimes is is US pricing +30% in EUR.

 Agree lost the plot on pricing - Got charged £150 for 4sight, this year got it for $75 - £50 form a dealer across the pond.

 

Crazy

[AHA]

Sounds like you need a new dealer Gary 5 weeks is crazy time to wait for a job like that and you were way over charged the RRP for your 4sight.

[Gary Leeds UK]

Fully aware of that - living in Leeds as a few issues when it comes to stuff like this - too much money floating about at not many dealers

[Chuck]

I have been thinking about this for a while now.It is a grandiose idea but this would save everybody a bunch of time...

 

How about giving the end user the ability to add, subtract, configure anything they want BUT a dealer has to check over and verify the configuration. a dealer would have to "push" it into production? 

 

Just a thought.

[Tokead]

So I could add it but I would still have to wait weeks (not my dealer) and pay the same for them to approve it? No thanks.

I've used Pro. Adding devices isn't hard and doesn't take more than minutes. Making it work properly or adding a complex device could require a dealer, which I'm fine with.

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[Chuck]

So I could add it but I would still have to wait weeks (not my dealer) and pay the same for them to approve it? No thanks.

I've used Pro. Adding devices isn't hard and doesn't take more than minutes. Making it work properly or adding a complex device could require a dealer, which I'm fine with.

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I guess I am the exception rather than the norm. I like doing it myself and exploring possibilities. If I were to actually engage a dealer to figure out all of my ideas, they would go insane. I would love some sort of test environment with a virtual system I could push to its limits.. Is there one BTW? 

[angusm]

 Agree lost the plot on pricing - Got charged £150 for 4sight, this year got it for $75 - £50 form a dealer across the pond.

 

Crazy

No excuse for overcharging for 4sight like that.  I am surprised you say that there are not enough dealers, C4 has a pretty wide dealer base. Dealer locator shows a fair few within 20 miles of Lees.

[Gary Leeds UK]

Angusm,

They is few, but not all of them still provide c4 surports - it's says one dealer is only 6 miles from my house.

The telephone number given - no longer in service.

Plus one in Huddersfield, told me " no longer do c4 too much hassle" we just sell AV equipment.

[angusm]

C4 obviously need to have a clean up of their dealer locator.  Hope you get sorted soon, I know you have been very vocal in your support of the product.

[RobbieF]

I had a similar problem as Gary when it came to Dealers...   and when I found a local dealer who I thought looked good, the company quoted me over £700 per day for programming.......  You read right...  They obviously think they're friken neurosurgeons.

 

So I took things into my own hands; called a Dealer Out in South Africa (I'm South African), and got him to remotely do everything from there.  Saves me more than £500 per day, and is a lot more responsive and professional!!!

[Gary Leeds UK]

Robbie, we start on phase 2 on Monday and most say my dealer as pretty sharp on this one - speeding £5k on a HC800, Door Bell, 2 Pluck dimmers, new electric points and Tv in bedroom put on the wall, plus 3 cameras installing and some spot lights putting in the Bathroom and Kitchen

 

So this will be us having the Hole house automated, no need for light switches and also have all my IT stuff placed in the office.

 

Lets see how we go, they say the HC800 is a lot faster than my HC250 (Going into the Bedroom).

 

Kodi will be running on Amazon Fire TV box, which I must say places everything, even 42gig ISO when connected to the LAN.

 

Fingers Crossed