Help with a 3 way switch..... Lights between switches

[lycokayaker]

Hey Gang

As the title says I am trying to wire a 3 way light setup.   I have a Control 4 dimmer at the top of my stairs and a 2 button switch at the bottom of the stairs.    My problem confusion comes in like this dimmer switch is at the top have a light then two button keypad then another light.   Below is the box wiring setup I can get pictures if its more helpful.

Box 1 

Wire 1  - Black White - power from the pannel

Wire 2    Black white red

Wire 3    Black white

 

Light

 

Box 2

wire 1   black white red

wire 2   black white

 

Light 

 

 

any help would be greatly appreciated 

[mstafford388]

Is it just a single gang box in each location?  If so it seems like you have an extra wire in there.  Either wire 3 in box1 or wire 2 in box2 is going to be the load to the light.  That needs to be figured out to know how to wire this. 

[knowitall]

These are my favorite threads. 

[lycokayaker]

34 minutes ago, mstafford388 said:

Is it just a single gang box in each location?  If so it seems like you have an extra wire in there.  Either wire 3 in box1 or wire 2 in box2 is going to be the load to the light.  That needs to be figured out to know how to wire this. 

So Single gang box yes to both of them.      first box has power coming from breaker, white red black to other box, black white to (light?) second box has white red black and black white (assuming to other light?)   Im confused how to properly wire this with a Control4 setup.   I tried to set this up once and couldn't get it working properly and the 2 button key pad buzzed bad.   Knew it wasn't right and was running low on time.   Threw it back together for standard setup but confused the properly wiring to make the light work past the second box.

[mstafford388]

If you knew for sure both of those wires went to individual lights I could tell you how to hook it up.  Typically there is only one wire that goes from a wall box to the first light then lights are wired together.  

*IF* each light has it's own wire (and I would not recommend doing this until you verify) this is what you'd do....

 

Box 1

Black power wire from panel to black wire on dimmer and black wire on traveler (black/red/white)

All White wires wired together including dimmer

Red wire from dimmer goes to black wire to light as well as red traveler wire

 

Box 2

Black traveler wire to black wire on 2 button

All white wires together including 2 button

Black wire on light to red traveler wire

 

Red wire should have a piece of electrical tape wrapped around it to indicate it carries power.

Everything should be grounded obviously. 

[Cyknight]

Uhm. Are you SURE the 'third' wire in box 1 is going to the light? Because to me it seems FAR more likely it's just going to run to another switch somewhere.

Meaning you have a basic powerfeed to box, to second box, to light, setup (which would be the most 'normal' way to wire it)

 

For the sake of you and your loved ones, please get an electrician involved to figure out the wiring first.

[tekki70]

honestly if you dont know what to do, call an electrician, and be safe,

 

[lycokayaker]

8 hours ago, Cyknight said:

Uhm. Are you SURE the 'third' wire in box 1 is going to the light? Because to me it seems FAR more likely it's just going to run to another switch somewhere.

Meaning you have a basic powerfeed to box, to second box, to light, setup (which would be the most 'normal' way to wire it)

 

For the sake of you and your loved ones, please get an electrician involved to figure out the wiring first.

I was planning on pulling the light to confirm that the black /white wire was there and not the black/white/red was there to the light.

[mstafford388]

32 minutes ago, lycokayaker said:

I was planning on pulling the light to confirm that the black /white wire was there and not the black/white/red was there to the light.

That still doesn't really help.  Even if that light is run off of the other light in that load (which is likely) it would still just be a 2 wire (black and white).  You should tone out the wires or like others have said get an electrician involved. 

[lycokayaker]

3 minutes ago, mstafford388 said:

That still doesn't really help.  Even if that light is run off of the other light in that load (which is likely) it would still just be a 2 wire (black and white).  You should tone out the wires or like others have said get an electrician involved. 

Fair enough....  Im in NJ so having someone come in the house with COVID running rampant is not an option....   May just put this on the back burner for when things calm down.   Or like you said tone the wires out and confirm the run of each wire.

[LiveOakCustom]

Agree that you should get an electrician.  If you are feeling saucy you could also by pass the switches to see if the light comes on directly from the breaker.  Turn off your breaker.  Connect the two white/blacks in box one.  If they are your load and your line, the light will come on.  If not, it is what Cy said and I bet he is correct.  The second white black most likely goes to an outlet or another light switch in the area. 

Turn off the breaker again.  Connect the white/black from the breaker to the white black of the three way switch.  Do not use the red wire.  Go to the second box and connect the whites and blacks.  Turn on the breaker.  My bet is the light will come on.  

A better idea is turn the circuit off and either use a tone generator or continuity tester to figure out where the lines are going.  

This is most likely what you have with the second white/black in first box power another outlet/switch in general area.  Cap the wires coming from the panel.  Is anything else not working besides the light?  That is where these wire are going.

[ILoveC4]

Hopefully you understand exactly how everything was wired before you started mucking around. My bet is that on the side where power supplied (one of the BW wires) the extra BW wire is power source to other stuff. In this case those would be wired together and this would be where your keypad goes. You’d tap hot (black) from the breaker. You basically tie all the blacks together, including the one on your keypad. Same with the neutrals and grounds. Don’t use the red wire. On the other side you’d just wire the switch/dimmer up like normal. The BWR wire you leave the red alone but black to black on dimmer, all the whites together, black on wire to light on red wire from dimmer. Tie the grounds together. 
 

All that said, it really is a good idea to have an electrician do this if you don’t know what you’re doing. 

[lycokayaker]

Thanks for the advice...   I had my blinders on when looking at this problem.  On the other side of the wall 2FT away is an electrical outlet.   I am betting that the extra wire is tied to that and they are tying the power to it with the line in.  I haven't tested my theory yet.   plan is to shut the power off pull that power line of the circuit and test the outlet.  Thats my hunch that it powers that.     Thanks for the info.   I will report back if its the case.   

[ILoveC4]

3 hours ago, lycokayaker said:

Thanks for the advice...   I had my blinders on when looking at this problem.  On the other side of the wall 2FT away is an electrical outlet.   I am betting that the extra wire is tied to that and they are tying the power to it with the line in.  I haven't tested my theory yet.   plan is to shut the power off pull that power line of the circuit and test the outlet.  Thats my hunch that it powers that.     Thanks for the info.   I will report back if its the case.   

If there's power coming from the breaker, powering this load, and going somewhere else, typically the electrician will wire the "hots" together and then have a pigtail going to the switch. If you've got multiple black wires tied together in the box, that's likely what's happening. Just leave them tied to together - add the black from your traveler and from your keypad - they all need power. Wire the neutrals together and then hook up the other side where the dimmer/switch goes. I wouldn't go pulling things from the circuit and trying to figure out what you cut power to. That seems pretty absurd.

[lycokayaker]

On 4/10/2020 at 12:14 PM, ILoveC4 said:

If there's power coming from the breaker, powering this load, and going somewhere else, typically the electrician will wire the "hots" together and then have a pigtail going to the switch. If you've got multiple black wires tied together in the box, that's likely what's happening. Just leave them tied to together - add the black from your traveler and from your keypad - they all need power. Wire the neutrals together and then hook up the other side where the dimmer/switch goes. I wouldn't go pulling things from the circuit and trying to figure out what you cut power to. That seems pretty absurd.

I haven't touched it since I posted....  My wife has been direction my attentions to other projects and the kids.   The prior electrician (probably one who wired house when built) did exactly that has black wires tied together with a pig tail to the switch...   I thought could be wrong the dimmer went where the power coming from the breaker went. and the 2 button key pad went to the box that didn't have the power coming from the panel.   I installed all my other dimmer switches that didn't have a 3 way switch requirement and it went super smooth without a hitch.   

[ILoveC4]

46 minutes ago, lycokayaker said:

I haven't touched it since I posted....  My wife has been direction my attentions to other projects and the kids.   The prior electrician (probably one who wired house when built) did exactly that has black wires tied together with a pig tail to the switch...   I thought could be wrong the dimmer went where the power coming from the breaker went. and the 2 button key pad went to the box that didn't have the power coming from the panel.   I installed all my other dimmer switches that didn't have a 3 way switch requirement and it went super smooth without a hitch.   

If you have multiple black wires wired together with a pigtail to the switch that is most certainly the power supply. Just remove the wirenut, take out the pigtail, and add your power for the keypad (or dimmer if this is the load side, but in this case it isn't) along with the black wire from the traveler (to get constant power to the dimmer side).

[lycokayaker]

On 4/14/2020 at 6:07 PM, ILoveC4 said:

If you have multiple black wires wired together with a pigtail to the switch that is most certainly the power supply. Just remove the wirenut, take out the pigtail, and add your power for the keypad (or dimmer if this is the load side, but in this case it isn't) along with the black wire from the traveler (to get constant power to the dimmer side).

Problem solved...  Thanks ILoveC4.   You called it the extra wire was feeding another outlet on another room.  I pulled the wires from the extra wire and then tested outlets till I found the dead outlet.   All wired up good to go now thanks!