ejn1 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 Anyone seeing 10G functionality being incorporated into future controllers? I could potentially see some value in accessing music via NAS, Video stream access when moving to 4K etc. Thx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Köhler Medientechnik Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 Even Tidal highest quality audio streaming goes only up to 3Mb/s AFAIR. 4K UHD Video bitrates can go up to 100Mb/s (which wouldn´t go through a controller anyway). For what to you think you need 10.000Mb/s? - on a controller?.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 What is the maximum bitrate going through a controller today? I would think that 1G is more than enough. 4K streams only use around 25Mbps. So a 1G NIC could handel close to 40 of those and I don't think video streams go through a controller, do they? I doubt that you even need more than 100Mbps in a controller unless it started to act as a centralized distributor of video the way that it does audio today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 I see no value for the next few years in 10g in a controllerSent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstafford388 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 Controllers don't handle any streaming video just audio. The EA controllers are capable of 192kHz/24bit audio streams (which is kick butt by the way). If i remember correctly a 192/24 stream is a little over 9mbps. With 5 audio outputs on an EA5 that means your under 50 megs. What are you hoping to do with the other 9,950 megs? msgreenf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejn1 Posted August 14, 2020 Author Share Posted August 14, 2020 Just posing the question I listed above potential use case but wasnt sure if anything may go over 1G limits that go through a C4 system. I'm installing a few fiber runs in my home mainly for NAS access to a few PCs. Latency with fiber is also much better than copper I hear so wasn't sure if it would help in a controller in the future. To add a 10G port to a EA3 or EA5 successor would be a minimal cost addition and I would pay for the difference if given the option. Also see internet options over 1G coming in next 5 years which may also provide some use case benefits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Köhler Medientechnik Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 1 hour ago, ejn1 said: Also see internet options over 1G coming in next 5 years which may also provide some use case benefits. But still, this traffing is not going through the controller. This would be just a waste of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejn1 Posted August 14, 2020 Author Share Posted August 14, 2020 20 minutes ago, Köhler Medientechnik said: But still, this traffing is not going through the controller. This would be just a waste of money. ok, thanks for feedback. Doesnt look like much of a need through a controller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekohn00 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 1 hour ago, ejn1 said: Latency with fiber is also much better than copper I hear so wasn't sure if it would help in a controller in the future this would be almost impossible to measure across the distance at home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejn1 Posted August 14, 2020 Author Share Posted August 14, 2020 8 minutes ago, ekohn00 said: this would be almost impossible to measure across the distance at home. Thanks, I mainly ran fiber as I could pull one slender MPO cable with 8 pairs of fiber in it easily in my existing conduit (100 ft runs) and then easily terminate into Fiber cassettes on both end. Was a very convenient way to run point to point cable "trunks" in my existing home (eg vs several Cat6a cables. Latency wasnt my main driver vs copper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie3130 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 I wouldn’t be surprised if converting from fiber to copper would be more latent than a straight copper connection tbh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeAutomationNerd Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 In traditional terms, a controller is the Control Plane. For that you want reliability, resilience in the face of network failures, and features like battery backup.The Data Plane is where you need bandwidth. This is where AV moves around your network. You can envision a house - even how - with 20+ 4K video streams (cameras, etc). That data flows through you main network, not a controller. HDMI (and whatever is next) is a similar high bandwidth data plane. There is a bit of crossover (a controller does some music, a bit of video transcoding while an HDMI. Link might carry some control-plane data. Generally though, given current architectural designs for software and hardware, a 10gb link wouldn’t be on my priority list. Now eARC and other tech is high in my list... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ejn1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 On 8/14/2020 at 2:06 PM, ejn1 said: Just posing the question I listed above potential use case but wasnt sure if anything may go over 1G limits that go through a C4 system. I'm installing a few fiber runs in my home mainly for NAS access to a few PCs. Latency with fiber is also much better than copper I hear so wasn't sure if it would help in a controller in the future. To add a 10G port to a EA3 or EA5 successor would be a minimal cost addition and I would pay for the difference if given the option. Also see internet options over 1G coming in next 5 years which may also provide some use case benefits. Here in Toronto (and other parts of Canada), Bell Canada has offered a 1.5Gbps internet service for a while. Personally I think it is a waste vs their 1Gbps service as almost no one has hardware to be able to take advantage of it and even if you did I am not sure that you would notice the additional speed as I doubt you would ever get end to end throughput that fast. They have 1.5Gbp/940Mbps for C$125/month and 1Gbps/750Mbps for C$115/month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejn1 Posted August 17, 2020 Author Share Posted August 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, zaphod said: Here in Toronto (and other parts of Canada), Bell Canada has offered a 1.5Gbps internet service for a while. Personally I think it is a waste vs their 1Gbps service as almost no one has hardware to be able to take advantage of it and even if you did I am not sure that you would notice the additional speed as I doubt you would ever get end to end throughput that fast. They have 1.5Gbp/940Mbps for C$125/month and 1Gbps/750Mbps for C$115/month. I agree that not many folks in a home setting have the point to point hardware to take advantage but I think things are starting to change... Wifi 6 will be able to take advantage of 2.5G with existing Cat5e wiring when hardware starts to be released in the near future. My motherboard on my PC has an included 2.5G Ethernet port so hardware is already starting to come. Whether one needs it or not is another thing but lets face it, I'm sure a lot of folks in this forum invest in tech that they dont need from a utility point of view Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 I am struggling to see how anything more than 1G is required. What's the end use case? Even streaming hgih bitrate 8K video will get nowhere near that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 10 minutes ago, zaphod said: I am struggling to see how anything more than 1G is required. What's the end use case? Even streaming hgih bitrate 8K video will get nowhere near that. Because they need to upsell you. I have plenty of friends who boast they have the highest speed package but it’s configured miserably and it’s no better than my measly 200 plan. The need is for the business not the end user Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejn1 Posted August 17, 2020 Author Share Posted August 17, 2020 You guys are right that not many home use cases exist "today" for faster internet than is available. Actually, you probably only need 90HP in a car to do the speed limit and anything over that is upselling or we probably don't need anything over the CPU horsepower of a Pentium processor in a home PC. Maybe faster connections will enable some new things in the future, who knows. For those into frugalities, they can save the $10-$20/month on their internet service! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 39 minutes ago, ejn1 said: You guys are right that not many home use cases exist "today" for faster internet than is available. Actually, you probably only need 90HP in a car to do the speed limit and anything over that is upselling or we probably don't need anything over the CPU horsepower of a Pentium processor in a home PC. Maybe faster connections will enable some new things in the future, who knows. For those into frugalities, they can save the $10-$20/month on their internet service! Well I don’t buy the latest new CPU every year . at least with the car you can drive faster just illegally or take it to a track. With all the extra data it literally just sits there and it’s not used. So yeah I don’t give the money away to the cable companies just to say I have the highest speed package. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Köhler Medientechnik Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 5 hours ago, ejn1 said: You guys are right that not many home use cases exist "today" for faster internet than is available. Actually, you probably only need 90HP in a car to do the speed limit and anything over that is upselling or we probably don't need anything over the CPU horsepower of a Pentium processor in a home PC. Maybe faster connections will enable some new things in the future, who knows. For those into frugalities, they can save the $10-$20/month on their internet service! I still have the feeling you don´t understand the role of a control processor in the overall solution. There´s no relationship between your internet speed and the speed of your control processor´s LAN port. There are just no significant bandwidth requirements for a control processor. Like others have already said, even a 100Mb/s port would be sufficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejn1 Posted August 17, 2020 Author Share Posted August 17, 2020 2 hours ago, Köhler Medientechnik said: I still have the feeling you don´t understand the role of a control processor in the overall solution. There´s no relationship between your internet speed and the speed of your control processor´s LAN port. There are just no significant bandwidth requirements for a control processor. Like others have already said, even a 100Mb/s port would be sufficient. I think this thread got off of the controller speed and was talking in general about how much internet speed is needed in a home environment. The controller speed question was asked and answered, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Köhler Medientechnik Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 14 minutes ago, ejn1 said: I think this thread got off of the controller speed and was talking in general about how much internet speed is needed in a home environment. The controller speed question was asked and answered, IMO. Ah, i see. But still the LAN capabilities of your equipment (you mentioned wifi 6 and your motherboard´s LAN port) have mothing to do with the size of your internet pipe. When consuming Internet services, the sender will be the limiting factor, not the bandwidth of your downstream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejn1 Posted August 17, 2020 Author Share Posted August 17, 2020 48 minutes ago, Köhler Medientechnik said: Ah, i see. But still the LAN capabilities of your equipment (you mentioned wifi 6 and your motherboard´s LAN port) have mothing to do with the size of your internet pipe. When consuming Internet services, the sender will be the limiting factor, not the bandwidth of your downstream. Understand. My point was equipment is evolving to handle the additional speeds in the home and my hope is that the use cases (along with sender capabilities) will increase to match. This has seemed to be the trend with tech. I have increased my own home network speeds for LAN purposes, not internet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminaldisclaimer Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 If you really wanted to do this, I think it would be possible now with a CA-10. Definitely not supported, but possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekohn00 Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 20 minutes ago, ejn1 said: Understand. My point was equipment is evolving to handle the additional speeds in the home and my hope is that the use cases (along with sender capabilities) will increase to match. This has seemed to be the trend with tech. I have increased my own home network speeds for LAN purposes, not internet. This is a good thought.... Personally I think the C4 hardware is kept a few steps behind what they could..... let me explain... the hardware is scaled for home automation. They're using the basic MBs and Processors to due just that. And those with a large home automation can easily hit it's limits. C4 could easily increase processing power with much stronger chipsets and MBs. But these cost more and start to play in their profits, business case, etc. things way beyond my control. I'd love to see them offer a controller capable of so much more (ie Plex Server built in). The home user "world" today easily has this hardware available. 1G LAN, i7 & I9s...all easily available. New technologies like 2.5g LAN, and wifi 6 are slowly rolling out. So basically, what really holds back our world, right now, is what C4 believes they want to provide and at what cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Köhler Medientechnik Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 27 minutes ago, ejn1 said: Understand. My point was equipment is evolving to handle the additional speeds in the home and my hope is that the use cases (along with sender capabilities) will increase to match. This has seemed to be the trend with tech. I have increased my own home network speeds for LAN purposes, not internet. OK, understood. I usually wait for use cases to come and then upgrade and not the other way round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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