Power management for always on, wall-mounted iPad mini

[pinkoos]

Reference thread:

I'm almost done with replacing the old touchscreens with iPad minis

 

I've been testing with my wife's mini, and so now need to just find some good deals on used, relatively current models - I was thinking iPad mini 4 at the minimum

 

Anyway, since they will always be connected to power, does anyone have recommendations in terms of when and for how long to cut off power to the iPads via the managed POE switch?

 

I was thinking something like cutting off power at 1AM and letting it run on battery for awhile, but for how long?  1 hour? 2 hours? Longer?

 

[Jakelay]

I picked up a Texas POE to lightening connector and just set the POE to power off at 11pm and on at 5am to avoid battery swell.

Just remember, if they are going to be in a room where you sleep, the screen will come on and you usually will hear a notification tone when they are powered on and off (just like when you plug/unplug them manually- not sure if you can disable either or both of these). When considering times, plan around that. If not in bedrooms or disruptive areas it is less likely to matter.

 

[pinkoos]

This is the POE adapter I'm using:

Amazon.com: DSLRKIT Active PoE Splitter 48V to 5V 5.2V 2.4A USB Type A Female 802.3af for Tablet : Electronics

Interestingly, while researching this issue, I came across this link from Apple:

About iPad and iPhone Charge Management Feature - Apple Support

So, I'm wondering if powering off is necessary at all or, even if it may not be, it may still be a good idea to go ahead and power off nightly

Incidentally, they are not in bedrooms, but thanks for the heads up about the tone - I hadn't even thought of that

[Jakelay]

If you do a search you’ll find some people have mentioned that they had the issue after this charge management change was made so I just did it for safety.

[wnpublic]

I've had an iPad on the wall for more than a year, charger connected full time via Texas POE and have not had any issues, presumably thanks to the power management feature you've mentioned.

[pinkoos]

Okay, that's good to know, good to hear real world experiences

Which model iPad do you have mounted? Just trying to get a gauge on how old your battery is

[wnpublic]

5 minutes ago, pinkoos said:

Okay, that's good to know, good to hear real world experiences

Which model iPad do you have mounted? Just trying to get a gauge on how old your battery is

It's the 8th generation 10.2 basic model, from 2020.

[pinkoos]

What kind of mounts are you all using?

 

[wnpublic]

20 minutes ago, pinkoos said:

What kind of mounts are you all using?

 

It's from Heckler

[Andrew luecke]

I've always recommended against using iPads for lots of reasons (including the fact that a guest can write the password wrong a few times and you need to bring it to a Apple centre to unlock,which is how 90% of these end up)

But if you have to, ensure you use a mount which makes it easy to remove when required (some wall mounts even use double sided tape)

[SpencerT]

Not sure how committed down the ipad path you are, but I'm doing something similar with android tablets and figured I'd share just in case you were looking for other ideas.

I have (5) Samsung a7 and a8 tablets running kiosk software to the c4 app (cheap tablets, nothing fancy).

My favorite part is using them as replacements for bulky indoor cameras to stream back to my nvr 24x7 (with audio). It just runs in the background, doesn't interfere with usage. Macrodroid to dim and brighten the screens at certain times of the day and night (and to help with some basic tablet management). Screensaver after 5 minutes.

In android, there is a setting to allow the batteries to only charge to 85% and another to disable fast charging. I'm using 24v passive Poe into a small buck converter to essentially just trickle charge the tablets. I have the injectors on a kasa power strip in my AV closet timed to charge for 4 hours, discharge for 4 hours.

Using inexpensive 3d printed mounts. Working on color match painting one right now before we deploy a few more. 

[Andrew luecke]

41 minutes ago, SpencerT said:

Not sure how committed down the ipad path you are, but I'm doing something similar with android tablets and figured I'd share just in case you were looking for other ideas.

I have (5) Samsung a7 and a8 tablets running kiosk software to the c4 app (cheap tablets, nothing fancy).

My favorite part is using them as replacements for bulky indoor cameras to stream rtsp back to my nvr 24x7 (with audio). it just runs in the background, doesn't interfere with usage. Macrodroid to dim and brighten the screens at certain times of the day and night (and to help with some basic tablet management). Screensaver after 5 minutes.

In android, there is a setting to allow the batteries to only charge to 85% and another to disable fast charging. I'm using 24v passive Poe into a small buck converter to essentially just trickle charge the tablets. I have the injectors on a kasa power strip in my AV closet timed to charge for 4 hours, discharge for 4 hours.

Using inexpensive 3d printed mounts. Working on color match painting one right now before we deploy a few more. 

 

 

Totally agree.. I Definitely recommend Android if you do go the unofficial route.. 

 

If you go tablet, don't buy cheap generic one available though. The supercheap ones often use cheap batteries which tend to be risky (had a mate buy one years back, and the battery almost caught on fire after a few weeks). 

Furthermore, I seem to recall people (I think http://www.disenointeligente.com.mx/ ??? ) demoing Android Touchscreens which don't use batteries too (so less risk), and there are probably others designed for POE, and I'm willing to bet there are plenty of other companies making Android touchscreens. 

Apple is also far more likely to make API changes which will adversely affect Control4 (like the local LAN permissions or their other API changes which caused nightmares with intercoms), and at any time, they could break things further, so there is inheritantly more risk that they may make changes long term for the sake of "privacy", whereas Android imho isn't as locked down, but tends to receive less firmware upgrades.  

 

Whilst Apple definitely make better tablet hardware than Android manufacturers, you definitely don't NEED  an A15 bionic chip for Control4 (you mainly just want to ensure it has enough RAM and supports H265 probably)

[zaphod]

1 hour ago, Andrew luecke said:

I've always recommended against using iPads for lots of reasons (including the fact that a guest can write the password wrong a few times and you need to bring it to a Apple centre to unlock,which is how 90% of these end up)

But if you have to, ensure you use a mount which makes it easy to remove when required (some wall mounts even use double sided tape)

I agree that an iPad isn’t ideal, but I don’t think these issues are a big deal. 

Why use a password in this instance?  Apple nags you but you can set it up without a password.  My daughter has a disability and I have no password on her iPad.

And worst case scenario, if you forget the password, couldn’t you just do a factory reset?  If you are only using it for C4 then it isn’t like it is much work to Re-install the C4 app. 

[Andrew luecke]

2 hours ago, zaphod said:

I agree that an iPad isn’t ideal, but I don’t think these issues are a big deal. 

Why use a password in this instance?  Apple nags you but you can set it up without a password.  My daughter has a disability and I have no password on her iPad.

And worst case scenario, if you forget the password, couldn’t you just do a factory reset?  If you are only using it for C4 then it isn’t like it is much work to Re-install the C4 app. 

1. Lets not forget our friend Wifi Assist 

2. If you do have access to the Apple ID, yes, it's less of an issue, and it is less of an issue if you're the person who installed it

3. You don't need to set up a password, however, after seemingly every update, IOS often prompts you to improve your security, so we found onsite, it's incredibly common for family members kids to add a password, or someone else without realising the password isn't required. 

4. And the API thing already has already been a pain for intercom apparently. Apple's API is likely to only become MORE restrictive as time progresses. Things have been progressively getting worse in the past 10 years. 

5. We're still having constant issues with LAN permissions too. I regularly come across installers with devices like Shelly (which I wrote a driver for). Every time an installer has issues adding it to the cloud via their mobile, it's because of IOS.  Android on the other hand seems to generally work seamlessly. In practice, this has been a fairly big annoyance imho.. 

6. You can spend half the price on an Android tablet, which in practice, will run exactly the same apps (home automation apps don't require high end specs).  

7. What can an iPad do in this application which Android can't?

 

Each to their own though. like I said, Ipad's are a good product, You'd be happy with either solution. I just feel the additional cost of the iPad's don't benefit the user in any fashion (and many people often overlook Android)

[pinkoos]

Thanks for the discussion

As I'll primarily be using the SecuritySpy app for having a certain camera feed on the display, I'm tied to iOS/iPadOS

I actually won't be running the Control4 app on it, if everything goes as planned

[pinkoos]

So my dealer is telling me that my Araknis POE switch doesn't have the ability for port by port power manage/scheduling - I think this is the one I have

Araknis Networks® 310 Series L2 Managed Gigabit Switch with Full PoE+ and Rear Ports (snapav.com)

Ugh

[Cyknight]

36 minutes ago, pinkoos said:

So my dealer is telling me that my Araknis POE switch doesn't have the ability for port by port power manage/scheduling - I think this is the one I have

Araknis Networks® 310 Series L2 Managed Gigabit Switch with Full PoE+ and Rear Ports (snapav.com)

Ugh

I don't know about built-in scheduling, but there's a driver for C4 that allows enabling/disabling ports - and C4 does scheduling....

[Viperman]

Why is everyone using POE switches to power these things.  Why not just run real power?   We have 15 ipads at work that are plugged in 100% of the time and have been for 3 years now.  No issues.

[pinkoos]

So I ended up doing that for one of my two wall-mounted iPads, b/c there's an outlet right next to it

So the POE that was run to that location is currently unused

However, for the second wall-mounted iPad, there's no near-by outlet, so my only option is the POE run that's already there as I don't want to spend the time and money to get true power run to that location

Hence, POE solutions

[Amr]

On 4/2/2022 at 1:44 AM, SpencerT said:

Not sure how committed down the ipad path you are, but I'm doing something similar with android tablets and figured I'd share just in case you were looking for other ideas.

I have (5) Samsung a7 and a8 tablets running kiosk software to the c4 app (cheap tablets, nothing fancy).

My favorite part is using them as replacements for bulky indoor cameras to stream back to my nvr 24x7 (with audio). It just runs in the background, doesn't interfere with usage. Macrodroid to dim and brighten the screens at certain times of the day and night (and to help with some basic tablet management). Screensaver after 5 minutes.

In android, there is a setting to allow the batteries to only charge to 85% and another to disable fast charging. I'm using 24v passive Poe into a small buck converter to essentially just trickle charge the tablets. I have the injectors on a kasa power strip in my AV closet timed to charge for 4 hours, discharge for 4 hours.

Using inexpensive 3d printed mounts. Working on color match painting one right now before we deploy a few more. 

Interested to know what is the software u r using to turn them into cams to the NVR?

[SpencerT]

11 minutes ago, Amr said:

Interested to know what is the software u r using to turn them into cams to the NVR?

Hi Amr, it's "IP Webcam Pro". Allows you to setup RTSP and ONVIF, and it can run in the background.

License is good for every device signed into the same play account (not licensed per device). 

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to share links, but here it is:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pas.webcam.pro

[Amr]

13 minutes ago, SpencerT said:

Hi Amr, it's "IP Webcam Pro". Allows you to setup RTSP and ONVIF, and it can run in the background.

License is good for every device signed into the same play account (not licensed per device). 

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to share links, but here it is:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pas.webcam.pro

Yes u can, many thanks, this is a great idea for concealed security, Macrodriod seems interesting as well, I use AirDroid for remote management of Tablets as well, it’s not cheap and require rooting thought!

[SpencerT]

21 minutes ago, Amr said:

Yes u can many thanks, this is a great idea for concealed security,  Macrodriod seems interesting as well, I use AirDroid for remote management of Tablets as well, it’s not cheap and require rooting thought!

Thanks. I forgot to point out that there is a trial version of IP Webcam as well by the same author (it's a separate app and your settings won't carry over between free and pro).

Macrodroid doesn't require root and is licensed per play account (not device). I believe there is a trial version for that one as well.

I run Fully Kiosk single app (licensed per device) to keep the c4 app and the screensaver app kiosked which was important for us. If Kiosk is important and you don't want to buy another piece of software you could probably get pretty close with Macrodroid alone as it's pretty powerful (I never bothered to try as I've been using the Fully software for years). 

[Amr]

6 minutes ago, SpencerT said:

Thanks. I forgot to point out that there is a trial version of IP Webcam as well by the same author (it's a separate app and your settings won't carry over between versions).

Macrodroid doesn't require root and is licensed per play account (not device). I believe there is a trial version for that one as well.

I run Fully Kiosk single app (licensed per device) to keep the c4 app and the screensaver app kiosked which was important for us. If Kiosk is important and you don't want to buy another piece of software you could probably get pretty close with Macrodroid alone as it's pretty powerful (I never bothered to try as I've been using the Fully software for years). 

I also use Fully on 15 devices I have, as I couldn’t afforded the ridicules price of the T3, I had rolled out Visio 6” Tablets as a cheap $50 alternatives, all running C4 app all have Intercom app as well, all of them running Fully!