Control4 video distribution

[gpavlin73]

Hello all , 

i would like to setup a C4 video distribution in my house , and would like to ask , does the video quality stays the same or is it worst then if i go directly from source to TV or projector ? 

I would like to distribute 7 sources to 3 TV sets and 1 projector . 

Sources are : Sky Q 4k box , Zappiti 4k player , Kaleidescape 4k player , Iptv box , Apple 4K TV , Nvidia shield pro , Panasonic 9000 4k bluray player .

I also have MadVR Envy Pro video processor in the chain . Will i be able to use it still , if i distribute video with C4 system ? 

And as said , most important thing for me , if anybody can help : is there a loss of video quality if video is distributed by C4 over the house , as compared to going directly from source to Tv or projector . 

Thank you in advance for any help . 

[GregCAMS]

Hello @gpavlin73.  I would recommend taking a look at AVPro Edge products.  You can decide between a traditional video matrix or an AV over IP solution like their MXNet products.  They have really good customer service and products come with a 10 year warranty.  By contrast I had a Leaf Matrix and then a C4 matrix prior which lasted 3 and 4.5 years respectively before having a multitude of issues.  If you are going to potentially expand your system beyond what you highlighted you may want to look at going down the AV over IP route, although AVPro Edge does sell a modular video matrix to provide that flexibility as well.   in my case I have their 8x8 video matrix with down-mixing (Axion line) for my whole home minus the theater.  And then in the theater I am using their MXNet line of products (10G in this case) as I wanted to have the multiview functionality that comes with that product.  I also have a MadVR Envy Extreme MK2 and it's dedicated to the theater.  I cannot speak to any impacts there as I'm running it dedicated just to my theater and thru the MXNet with 0 issues whatsoever in the 4 months of owning so far.  

[chopedogg88]

+1 on AVPro edge, that's what I was going to recommend as well.  You will not have loss in video quality as long as you have the proper wiring in place (Cat6 or better preferably), and are within the distance specs.

PM me if interested, I'm a direct dealer with AVPro edge and can get you pricing if you'd like.  I also have access to their "B stock" units which can be had for a nice discount, and come with the same 10-year warranty as A stock.

[gpavlin73]

Thank you for your quick response . 

I will look into AVPro items . 

[Andrew luecke]

Take a look at blustream too. It's a hugely popular product worldwide and in some countries is probably the most popular solution.

 

They're an extremely solid product and well priced 

[tmj4]

If you're looking for the absolute best products I agree with @chopedogg88 (who gets me my AVPro Edge stuff) and @GregCAMS. They are really the best around and have a lot to offer. For best quality with least amount of headaches, I would go with the AV over IP MXNet lineup. If 1G, use EV2.

If you want the absolute best image quality with the least amount of delay, go with the 10G. 10G is built on the SDVoE standard and offers some cool features such as built in mutliview (up to 32 views I believe), gen-lock, Dante, and 1GbE alongside the video. If you do go the 10G route and want to use PoE, note that 10G PoE switches are still quite pricey and only a few are focused on AV. Netgear has essentially created and owned that market outside of first party switches.

I'm sure @GregCAMS can answer any questions about the 10G system. I have the 1G EV2 system in my home.

[GregCAMS]

Way too much credit given @tmj4!!  I'm just a consumer that read up, researched and evaluated my options before selecting.  The MXNet 10G was almost solely chosen for the fast-switching and Multiview functionality.  The inherent tiling/multiview I'm using via this with my projector has worked seamless so far.  I'm awaiting time to purchase the multi-view tiler from Blackwire Designs that is compatible with AVPro and Just Add Power which I will end up getting probably in a month or so.  I already have the multiview functionality but their driver works a bit more intuitively in comparison to what I'm using with AVP and what I saw at the CEDIA show in person during some requested demonstrations.  Otherwise I'll try to answer what I can if prompted.  I'm just a customer whereas @chopedogg88 is a licensed dealer with many projects and installations that can speak more to this than I could!  Nevertheless, you may want to check out the AVPro Edge YouTube channel as they have an extensive video on the 10G system as well as some customer/client stories for the 1G system

[videostorm]

Our NetPlay is another option that is often lower cost and can use existing wiring and simple networks (if that is a concern for some zones).  It is fully integrated in C4 (free drivers) and includes dynamic multiview, PIP, and even graphical overlays at ZERO additional cost (at every TV).

The video is h264 or h265 encoded, which is the same codecs used to encode the source video material.  Very high quality and reasonable bit rates that don't need specialized networks.  

There are a lot of upsides to NetPlay, but the only downsides are the end to end latency is higher (200ms to 700ms depending on the source, always a fixed and synced value) and our switching speed is 1 second or less.  Most competing AV over IP uses non temporal encoding which can have lower latency and faster switching speed (at the cost of much higher bit rates, more complex networking, and in some cases lower quality).  Our phone support can always help if you have questions about the tradeoffs.

NetPlay residential estimator:  https://video-storm.com/residential.php

[tmj4]

@videostorm taking a look at the estimator and the encoding devices needed. I'm not seeing any devices that make mention (but they may support) of HDR, Dolby Vision, Atmos,  DTS:X. Does your system support that?

[Cyknight]

+1 for Blustream here.

For the question, will you lose video quality - well that's a loooooong discussion.

To be clear, Control4 doesn't mean you lose quality. Loss of quality would be because your video switch, and/or any decoding that happens creates a loss of quality.

Technically ANY compression/encoding and decoding process will create a loss. Realistically, any decent video switch/distribution solution anno 2023 isn't going to create a noticeable loss on any mainstream devices (cable boxes, media streamers).

Oh I'm sure people will claim they see a loss. But in the real world - no you wont. Again I'm talking mainstream, proper quality (not some sort of super high standard) video switch. Weird knock-offs are unpredictable at best.

The ONLY thing that can be noticeable on those is either super high quality outputs (some would argue high end UHD players, certain PC setups).

The one possible fight you can have is with latency. Gaming is especially sensitive for obvious reasons, but audio can be a fight.

Videostrom's product for example is great, but you can't really (easily) have central sources, feed them into a stereo amplifier then use videostorm to send video. You will likely notice audio sync.

There's solution's available for that (feed audio from TVs back instead, have audio switches with latency control) and there are video switch setups that will use HDMI, breakout audio and sync audio with the video latency it detects.

So regardless of what video distribution option you choose: make sure you are aware of (and have a solution for) potential latency issues.

Video quality as such won't be an issue.

 

[tmj4]

2 minutes ago, Cyknight said:

So regardless of what video distribution option you choose: make sure you are aware of (and have a solution for) potential latency issues.

This along with video quality are usually the two biggest considerations when doing distributed video. SDVoE solutions (eg. MXNet 10G) are the "least laggy" ones out there. SDVoE is a tech that is being used in the medical field for surgical and procedural applications.

[Cyknight]

2 minutes ago, tmj4 said:

SDVoE solutions (eg. MXNet 10G) are the "least laggy" ones out there

No it's the currently least laggy option using AV over IP - HDBaseT (or just direct HDMI of course) is faster yet.

[videostorm]

52 minutes ago, tmj4 said:

@videostorm taking a look at the estimator and the encoding devices needed. I'm not seeing any devices that make mention (but they may support) of HDR, Dolby Vision, Atmos,  DTS:X. Does your system support that?

HDR is supported on the 4K models (both encoders and decoders).  On the audio side, live HDMI is general distributed (in NetPay) as downmixed PCM stereo for optimized playback on TV speakers.  Centralized audio is handled differently (direct connections through audio matrix) and handles the multichannel audio for you.  If you are going the centralized audio route, our engineers can help you design the system.  As Cyknight said, it is more complicated but there are options.

I usually recommend people always use direct connected sources in their main viewing area.   This gives you support for all the latest video & audio formats without any compromises on the largest screen in the best room where you might actually be able to see / hear a difference.  NetPlay can be used to provide sources to every other display in the home for synchronized "game day" modes or just general convenience of use.  NetPlay is an easy to install and affordable way to do this.  It is also a very clean solution in C4.

[BXTR]

If you have a madVR you’ll want to keep that only in the theater system. There’s no avoip system that will be able to preserve what benefits the madVR offers

With the madVR motionAI beta pushing out 120fps and actually requiring a 48gbps video cable to function, there’s no video matrix that can accept that without a lot of compression 

AVPro is a killer product, highly recommended, extremely reliable 

 

[macosr]

My only comment aside from what was already shared is that it is also important to know what distribution wiring is in place already, how devices are going to connect and what future plans you have, if any. All of these should be taken into account when selecting a video matrix. It is also good to have a professional with extensive experience with an array of systems that honestly advises you in what is best for what you are wanting with also considering your audio distribution, audio delays and accounting for them, and if this plays a role in how you will use the system. My last upgrade I ultimately went with an Axion X system instead of an MXNet system for a variety of reasons but primarily because I have no plans of going to 8k any time soon (aside from my theatre which is already 8k) which means I would have no real benefit of utilizing an MXNet system.

The one thing I will mention is that AVPro has been absolutely rock solid for me…both the 16x16 Matrix switcher and the Axion X platform but the Axion X gave me more flexibility in some of things I wanted to accomplish.

[Topfox]

Believe @Time2Jet may have an Axion for sale.