First! Josh.ai integrating with C4

[Shoe]

Thanks to our forum host we have a place to discuss Josh.ai and C4 integrations. They have a dealer model and don't handle support directly. There are some nuances with how these products work together so I think a forum can really help dealers and customers.

I had interest in testing out Josh.ai so I bought a single Micro and mated it up to my Core3 project.

I'm about a day into the integration. I'll list some issues here, but I think it makes sense to break them out as separate topics to make a living knowledge base a little more accessible.

• Setting up a device is an iOS adventure only. This wasn't clear from any public facing documents and is obviously confusing since there is a Josh.ai Android app. There is a parity gap between the apps. While I used to work for Apple, we don't have any iOS products so this was a small hurdle.
• A user account that was blocked for some reason on the Josh side, but nothing told us what the issue was. Josh support fixed it after wasting cycles on trying to understand the problem.
• The Micro setup is easy when on POE. It still refuses to set up on Wifi.
• The import into Josh required some cleanup. At the moment its not clear to me how best to handle it's desire to control devices directly vs controlling them through C4.
• It's not handling more than one stream of music and is instead grouping zones.
• At times it has repeated itself in groups of three. Like it has a stutter.
• At times it asks you a question, but it's not listening for the response. Makes for a weird interaction.
• I've noticed some weird UI issues like in Pandora its showing some numbers where it should show track names.
• ...

I do think it's cool. I'm confident in the platform. Hoping discussions can help smooth out future integrations.

[GregCAMS]

Thanks for setting this up.  I installed my first Micro in 2020 myself in the wall and had a remote dealer out of state help with the initial setup.   It was a POE setup and must say didn't have any issues with the setup listed so far listed from the OP.  Maybe mine is an outlier perhaps, I don't know.  A few bullets from my experience based on the OP:

• I have opted to make Josh the front facing UI for at least the iOS app and the remotes (AVA Touch) in guest bedrooms for about 5 months now:
  • We (wife and I) use the 6 Micro/Nano combinations 50-75 times per day for 4 years so it's part of our normal way of interacting with the home.
  • Replaced 3 Halo remotes with the Josh (AVA Touch) remotes in guest bedrooms; so far the guests we have had much prefer them since they are used to using phones to control their DIY devices in their own homes.  And they love the scenes function I programmed to the scene buttons with the associated iconography Josh provides
  • Scene programming, adjusting and the visual interaction is much smoother, and engaging in our comparison (have had C4 since 2009 for reference)
  • Scene programming is much more intuitive to program and adjust from my personal experience.  I do light programming and have done some in Composer HE and needed a dealer tutorial on a few occasions for C4.  By comparison I needed 0 for Josh and watched a 5 minute YouTube video on the scenes and natural language programming
• Verdict out on the remotes in common areas.  Using Halo Touch in those areas but the battery life is terrible and at least 1 remote has to be restarted on average 3-4x per week after losing connection to the project.  1 other remote was RMA'd as it stopped working 2 weeks after receipt.  I'm testing a Cinema remote next month to see how it compares and having the wife try it out since that'll have a heavy factor in deciding what path we go with it.
• I'd say the voice recognition and correct action has been 95% first time quality/correct.  That wasn't the case in 2020 when we got the first Micro but it is certainly the case now.  We did disable the wake beep on the Nanos but kept it on the Micros.  On the Micros we have had 0 issues keeping it enabled but the Nanos are much better without the wake beep.
• I really like the visibility that the web portal provides. It has been invaluable in setup, adjusting and troubleshooting on my own without having to bother/engage with my dealer (they are great and don't need me bothering them all the time!)
• The music is the only current issue similar to what you are experiencing.  I've sent my project into Josh to review for a short term solution.  However, I was already planning to use Autonomic starting this summer as the primary streamer for the distributed audio.  In talking with Autonomics lead engineer it will continue to work in the use case we have of programmed playlist keypads for guest bathroom zones, as well as the more ad-hoc music we use with app, voice, remote and eventually touchscreen interfaces.  The keypads with music will remain a C4/Autonomic interface for those zones
• I have video surround speakers in 10 zones and 16 zones of dedicated music.  In C4 I had to have separate zones (i.e. rooms) for those that had both (i.e. Living Room for everything  except music and then a Living Room Music) in C4 which is a PITA.  With Josh I didn't have to do that at all.  They are treated as 1 zone (Living Room with a Living Room Music and a Living Room Video button).
• Love the Home page that gives me a status of all devices and the wife loves it as you don't have to go thru multiple button/menu presses to see what is active/on.  The areas menu is better then before but not a game changer for me.  However the Scenes is awesome as well as the nested way to group areas in the portal that show up in the app.  
• Lastly the icons, stock photos, and photo import make the interface more refined IMO and on a similar level to that of Savant and Crestron.
• Support has been fantastic.  Have e-mailed support or posted on a thread in the FB communities and an answer from the company comes back within minutes or less.  Thankfully, my dealer is good and responsive on C4 issues but in firsthand observations, I've seen the extreme pain they go thru more often than not to 1) get someone from Snap on the line and 2) get a reliable answer.  The Luma NVR was a case where they had 4 different tech reps give them 4 different answers until they were able to work thru to a reliable solution.

Thanks for starting this thread.  I still enjoy the reliability of Control4 and the interfaces it has for specific items and its interoperability.  After 15 years on C4 it just no longer meeting the needs for us from a user interface and quick change / flexibility standpoints.

 

[Time2Jet]

Thanks to our forum host we have a place to discuss Josh.ai and C4 integrations. They have a dealer model and don't handle support directly. There are some nuances with how these products work together so I think a forum can really help dealers and customers.
I had interest in testing out Josh.ai so I bought a single Micro and mated it up to my Core3 project.
I'm about a day into the integration. I'll list some issues here, but I think it makes sense to break them out as separate topics to make a living knowledge base a little more accessible.

• Setting up a device is an iOS adventure only. This wasn't clear from any public facing documents and is obviously confusing since there is a Josh.ai Android app. There is a parity gap between the apps. While I used to work for Apple, we don't have any iOS products so this was a small hurdle.
• A user account that was blocked for some reason on the Josh side, but nothing told us what the issue was. Josh support fixed it after wasting cycles on trying to understand the problem.
• The Micro setup is easy when on POE. It still refuses to set up on Wifi.
• The import into Josh required some cleanup. At the moment its not clear to me how best to handle it's desire to control devices directly vs controlling them through C4.
• It's not handling more than one stream of music and is instead grouping zones.
• At times it has repeated itself in groups of three. Like it has a stutter.
• At times it asks you a question, but it's not listening for the response. Makes for a weird interaction.
• I've noticed some weird UI issues like in Pandora its showing some numbers where it should show track names.
• ...

I do think it's cool. I'm confident in the platform. Hoping discussions can help smooth out future integrations.

Very good feedback and it’s very much what I would expect.

The “cleanup” is more of a reorganization or some revising of device names. For instance, initially Josh was very particular as to where the device was, vs C4 didn’t much care of you had lighting (for instance from other rooms “unhidden” in a different room), but “areas” solved that.

As for music, I struggle a bit with playing playlists. For example, it’s not intuitive at playing “My Weekend Playlist”, but I don’t have ever scenario on my main Josh (Home) - Sadly, while I’m moving to distributed audio via Mirage or Native with Sonos Port inputs, currently I have HEOS and Micros. HEOS integrates, but you’d want to authorize HEOS in Josh.

For @GregCAMS - have you tried a few Sonos Port inputs into your audio matrix? It adds additional services and tends to work well. Native is so limited today. Usable, for sure, but limited right now.

I’m glad there is all of this banter about Josh integration with Control4. I’m clear this is a Control4 forum, so I definitely don’t care to read about a stand alone Josh deployment. To be 100% transparent, I’m a Josh dealer that has never integrated a Josh system outside of Control4. I can speak to the fact that unless and until there is a real native voice solution, Josh is a fabulous addition to a Control4 system. They don’t fight each other, the synergy created in the driver is powerful for each.


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[GregCAMS]

Hi @Time2Jet - I was considering the Sonos option but going to go with Autonomic after talking with my dealer as well as Michael De Nigris (product engineer) from Autonomic.  That option is a best fit for my specific use case in both current and future state.  That won't happen until August based upon time and budget with other ongoing projects.  In the interim the engineers at Josh have received my C4 project and looking at the options to do what I need it to do for the short term.    

I hear you about the Control4 and want to respect the forum accordingly.  We have decided to just transition their place in the home with one being the front end interface for ourselves and for the frequent guests that come to visit.   In the future, if/when we upgrade to a new home, we will be doing an intentional project build with Josh at the forefront for the primary user interface and then leverage Control4, Lutron, etc or potentially another control system to support the necessary integration needs where suited.

[Control4Savant]

1 hour ago, GregCAMS said:

Hi @Time2Jet - I was considering the Sonos option but going to go with Autonomic after talking with my dealer as well as Michael De Nigris (product engineer) from Autonomic.  That option is a best fit for my specific use case in both current and future state.  That won't happen until August based upon time and budget with other ongoing projects.  In the interim the engineers at Josh have received my C4 project and looking at the options to do what I need it to do for the short term.    

I hear you about the Control4 and want to respect the forum accordingly.  We have decided to just transition their place in the home with one being the front end interface for ourselves and for the frequent guests that come to visit.   In the future, if/when we upgrade to a new home, we will be doing an intentional project build with Josh at the forefront for the primary user interface and then leverage Control4, Lutron, etc or potentially another control system to support the necessary integration needs where suited.

Id like to hear the reasons for Autonomic besides your dealer makes a profit on it….

[GregCAMS]

I am not sure what the profit margin would be on that as that's not my primary or secondary concern since I've worked with them for 5 years and have showed me their cost and price information on other projects.  For my particular need just need to install one piece (5e) and that's fine with me based upon some other factors including remaining rack space in my project.  I'm the one that asked them about the ability to use Autonomic as well as Sonos and after seeing what the product engineer detailed in a webinar i watched and seeing some of the functionality I'm looking for along with a brief stop-by their booth at CEDIA to get familiar with the product (invited on trip by dealer).  

[msgreenf]

You're justifying your purchase with that description. What is the problem you're trying to solve?

[Shoe]

3 hours ago, Time2Jet said:

Sadly, while I’m moving to distributed audio via Mirage or Native with Sonos Port inputs

I have a C4 matrix, but considering building a Sonos based multi-zone amp myself using an array of hacked sonos speaker guts. The trueplay intrigues me.

[GregCAMS]

didn't realize that reasons had to be justified on a knowledge and sharing forum.  suffice to say no purchase made yet and evaluating options.

[Control4Savant]

5 minutes ago, GregCAMS said:

didn't realize that reasons had to be justified on a knowledge and sharing forum.  suffice to say no purchase made yet and evaluating options.

You didnt give me any reasons besides Autonomic involves a single unit.  You said after discussion it fits your needs more… I personally doubt that, even without knowing you or your system. 

[GregCAMS]

Project = starts in August

Today = evaluating both Sonos and Autonomic for their pros and cons.

Justification = not needed 

[Control4Savant]

Calm down. 

[GregCAMS]

plenty calm - just don't have to give reasons to people I don't know or spend money with (sipping bourbon :))

[Control4Savant]

You dont have reasons. You were sold. No worries. Enjoy the drink. 

[therockhr]

7 minutes ago, Control4Savant said:

You didnt give me any reasons besides Autonomic involves a single unit.  You said after discussion it fits your needs more… I personally doubt that, even without knowing you or your system. 

He’s mentioned several times he wants to transition away from Control4 and into Josh only. Can’t do that while using Control4 built in audio. Something like Autonomic would be vendor agnostic and would fit the bill. 

[GregCAMS]

essentially that's correct = josh front end and c4 supporting system similar to other systems currently in my project (i.e. Lutron, etc.).  Visiting Josh HQ with dealer in April in Denver to just get a tour/look see around and hopefully have them show firsthand the differences between the options mentioned previously.

[Control4Savant]

3 minutes ago, therockhr said:

He’s mentioned several times he wants to transition away from Control4 and into Josh only. Can’t do that while using Control4 built in audio. Something like Autonomic would be vendor agnostic and would fit the bill. 

and  how would Sonos not accomplish that. Theres a variety of additional products Sonos offers that a dealer based/supported system like Autonomic cant compete with. Not to mention potential future music service compatibility Sonos is always at the head of…

[GregCAMS]

I'm assuming that it can.  No purchases made at this point.  Project is 6 months out so looking at either side and hopefully that visit will allow me to see firsthand side by side 

[Control4Savant]

5 minutes ago, GregCAMS said:

essentially that's correct = josh front end and c4 supporting system similar to other systems currently in my project (i.e. Lutron, etc.).  Visiting Josh HQ with dealer in April in Denver to just get a tour/look see around and hopefully have them show firsthand the differences between the options mentioned previously.

Two hours ago you said you were going with Autonomic because of dealer discussion. I just asked for the technical reasons… or f’it.. it just sounds “cooler” is fine too. Now you keep repeating your in comparison stage.  It was a just basic question. As a pro…I dont see much advantage. 

[Shoe]

Get a room? Lets split this off to another topic. I think the best matrix/amp selection for a Josh/C4 environment is a worthy discussion. I have questions and functionality I would like to target.

[therockhr]

2 minutes ago, Control4Savant said:

and  how would Sonos not accomplish that. Theres a variety of additional products Sonos offers that a dealer based/supported system like Autonomic cant compete with. Not to mention potential future music service compatibility Sonos is always at the head of…

Sure Sonos could as well. Not everyone wants Sonos though (I think Sonos is great but I do wish Control4 would just revert back to the old unsupported API). Seems really strange to chastise him for choosing one product over another. 

[Control4Savant]

Chastise? lol. Keep your emotions in check 

[Time2Jet]

Id like to hear the reasons for Autonomic besides your dealer makes a profit on it….

Today, Autonomics (and Sonos) have deeper app integration with Josh voice control than native C4 audio apps. Not sure the techical/licensing reasons, but the workaround for those doing distributed via native streams is to add a Sonos port or more.

To be clear, this isn’t a Josh vs Control4 thread, it’s a Josh with Control4 thread. I have never integrated a standalone Josh system. I have done many Josh systems that integrate “into” Control4 for voice control. The argument cannot made that the synergy is incomparable to any other voice integration. It’s quite powerful and very useful.


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[Cyknight]

30 minutes ago, therockhr said:

but I do wish Control4 would just revert back to the old unsupported API

If they did, you'd have nothing. That hidden API is fully shut down at this point.

[therockhr]

7 minutes ago, Cyknight said:

If they did, you'd have nothing. That hidden API is fully shut down at this point.

Roomie Remote uses an unsupported API