What The Heck!!!

[ILoveC4]

Let me get this straight. Many of you have ILLEGALLY obtained copies of composer so you can do things to your project and refuse to update to 2.0 beacuse you will lose that.

CONTROL4 IS NOT A DIY PRODUCT. IT NEVER WAS NOR IS CRESTRON OR AMX OR MANY OTHER AUTOMATION COMPANIES!!!! you are using STOLEN software and think you have the right to sit here and complain about the direction of a company which was never going your direction in the first place..

go get a harmony system and enjoy it and stop complaining that there are additional steps being placed to stop consumers from screwing up their systems. If you are getting nickel and dimed by a dealer i am sorry. Some of us are good dealers but we keep our customers so happy they dont even go on the internet looking for answers to their C4 system because it works how its supposed to. With that said i have fixed a few consumers systems from this board all of which are extremely happy with the work provided and the prices.

You guys can keep whining but at the end of the day you are breaking the law using copyrighted software which you are not licensed to use and obtained illegally, you KNEW 100% KNEW that Control4 is a DEALER ONLY SYSTEM and that it is NOT DIY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Get off your soap box. You didn't have that attitude when we were buying JAP gear, a switch and a driver from you. (which works great BTW, after we spent 4 hours troubleshooting it. We ended up in the realization that "the great" KevinL gave us an incomplete license key for his driver, and if he had supplied a complete key it would have saved us all that time...it was setup properly from the beginning.)

[Kevin L]

Let me get this straight. Many of you have ILLEGALLY obtained copies of composer so you can do things to your project and refuse to update to 2.0 beacuse you will lose that.

CONTROL4 IS NOT A DIY PRODUCT. IT NEVER WAS NOR IS CRESTRON OR AMX OR MANY OTHER AUTOMATION COMPANIES!!!! you are using STOLEN software and think you have the right to sit here and complain about the direction of a company which was never going your direction in the first place..

go get a harmony system and enjoy it and stop complaining that there are additional steps being placed to stop consumers from screwing up their systems. If you are getting nickel and dimed by a dealer i am sorry. Some of us are good dealers but we keep our customers so happy they dont even go on the internet looking for answers to their C4 system because it works how its supposed to. With that said i have fixed a few consumers systems from this board all of which are extremely happy with the work provided and the prices.

You guys can keep whining but at the end of the day you are breaking the law using copyrighted software which you are not licensed to use and obtained illegally' date=' you KNEW 100% KNEW that Control4 is a DEALER ONLY SYSTEM and that it is NOT DIY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/quote']

Get off your soap box. You didn't have that attitude when we were buying JAP gear, a switch and a driver from you. (which works great BTW, after we spent 4 hours troubleshooting it. We ended up in the realization that "the great" KevinL gave us an incomplete license key for his driver, and if he had supplied a complete key it would have saved us all that time...it was setup properly from the beginning.)

lol. I can personally support any Just Add Power system thats why i sold it to your customer. I didnt say oh call JAP direct.. Control4 is a completely different story. Your statement isnt a valid reason for stealing composer and exploiting private things to the public.

While i don't remember giving anyone an incomplete key i apologize. mistakes do happen.

[ILoveC4]

Let me get this straight. Many of you have ILLEGALLY obtained copies of composer so you can do things to your project and refuse to update to 2.0 beacuse you will lose that.

CONTROL4 IS NOT A DIY PRODUCT. IT NEVER WAS NOR IS CRESTRON OR AMX OR MANY OTHER AUTOMATION COMPANIES!!!! you are using STOLEN software and think you have the right to sit here and complain about the direction of a company which was never going your direction in the first place..

go get a harmony system and enjoy it and stop complaining that there are additional steps being placed to stop consumers from screwing up their systems. If you are getting nickel and dimed by a dealer i am sorry. Some of us are good dealers but we keep our customers so happy they dont even go on the internet looking for answers to their C4 system because it works how its supposed to. With that said i have fixed a few consumers systems from this board all of which are extremely happy with the work provided and the prices.

You guys can keep whining but at the end of the day you are breaking the law using copyrighted software which you are not licensed to use and obtained illegally, you KNEW 100% KNEW that Control4 is a DEALER ONLY SYSTEM and that it is NOT DIY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kevin, it is also worth noting that there are a lot of customers that were sold systems by dealers that provided them with Composer Pro. I personally had Composer Pro for years before I realized I wasn't supposed to have it! So, what happens to the guys like me, that bought a system based on that software being provided (free of charge I might add)?

I bought all my equipment (until this past year, 2010 - I did buy direct from them in 2009) directly from Control4. Went down to their headquarters on Election Rd in Draper, checked out the lab, they showed off the product, and I bought it. It took two days to "come in", and I went and picked it up. A Control4 employee came out to my house and taught me how to use Composer (Pro - I didn't know there was any other version), and helped me setup my system. I order a lot more gear, directly from Control4 over the next few years. I was WAY down the road in both experience and expense before I realized that my experience was any different than anybody elses. So now, you look at a guy like me, that has over $50k invested in the product, my entire house relies on it, and now I can't use it the way it was sold to me? Is Control4 going to buy this all back? NO - they, along with guys like you, call me a criminal and tell me that I am breaking the law. How would YOU feel after YOU invested $50k in a product, just to find out that the entire premise you purchased it under was a false one? You'd probably be quick to call the people that took your money scammers....put the blame on them and site the consumer for lack education when purchasing...right? Well, what about in my situation where the person that failed to inform me is the manufacturer...the almighty Control4 themselves? You're going to get mad at me for trying my hardest to continue to enjoy MY $50k investment in the way that I intended and the premise that I was sold on?

You don't know every situation Kevin. Maybe mine is extremely unique, maybe not so unique. There are a lot of people that live here that have Control4...how did they buy it? I know several people that had an experience just like mine...two of them no longer have Control4 because of what it ended up being (the locked down product we deal with today). So quit telling me what I did and didn't know when I wrote a big check (several of them) because you have no idea. Quit painting everybody with the same broad brush.

[ILoveC4]

Let me get this straight. Many of you have ILLEGALLY obtained copies of composer so you can do things to your project and refuse to update to 2.0 beacuse you will lose that.

CONTROL4 IS NOT A DIY PRODUCT. IT NEVER WAS NOR IS CRESTRON OR AMX OR MANY OTHER AUTOMATION COMPANIES!!!! you are using STOLEN software and think you have the right to sit here and complain about the direction of a company which was never going your direction in the first place..

go get a harmony system and enjoy it and stop complaining that there are additional steps being placed to stop consumers from screwing up their systems. If you are getting nickel and dimed by a dealer i am sorry. Some of us are good dealers but we keep our customers so happy they dont even go on the internet looking for answers to their C4 system because it works how its supposed to. With that said i have fixed a few consumers systems from this board all of which are extremely happy with the work provided and the prices.

You guys can keep whining but at the end of the day you are breaking the law using copyrighted software which you are not licensed to use and obtained illegally' date=' you KNEW 100% KNEW that Control4 is a DEALER ONLY SYSTEM and that it is NOT DIY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/quote']

Get off your soap box. You didn't have that attitude when we were buying JAP gear, a switch and a driver from you. (which works great BTW, after we spent 4 hours troubleshooting it. We ended up in the realization that "the great" KevinL gave us an incomplete license key for his driver, and if he had supplied a complete key it would have saved us all that time...it was setup properly from the beginning.)

lol. I can personally support any Just Add Power system thats why i sold it to your customer. I didnt say oh call JAP direct.. Control4 is a completely different story. Your statement isnt a valid reason for stealing composer and exploiting private things to the public.

While i don't remember giving anyone an incomplete key i apologize. mistakes do happen.

I know they do, and I wasn't mad about it...mistakes happen, we all make them. FYI - it wasn't my customer...another example of your complete ignorance. I never stole anything either, so quit telling me that I did. I'm sick of your uninformed accusations.

[ILoveC4]

I thank my customers for their business, and these guys yell at me and threaten me.

Maybe I need to rethink the way I do business...

At the very least, who I do business with.

And let me go on record and say that I AM NOT AGAINST CONTROL4'S BUSINESS PRACTICE AND DEALER SUPPORT MODEL. IT IS A GOOD MODEL SO LONG AS THERE IS A GOOD DEALER BASE (AND FOR THE MOST PART I THINK THERE IS). I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING AGAINST PEOPLE DISTRIBUTING THEIR PRODUCT THAT WAY. WHAT I HAVE AN ISSUE WITH IS SOMEBODY GIVING ME SOMETHING, THEN CALLING ME A CRIMINAL FOR HAVING IT. THAT IS WHAT I HAVE AN ISSUE WITH.

[cvlboy]

Let me get this straight. Many of you have ILLEGALLY obtained copies of composer so you can do things to your project and refuse to update to 2.0 beacuse you will lose that.

CONTROL4 IS NOT A DIY PRODUCT. IT NEVER WAS NOR IS CRESTRON OR AMX OR MANY OTHER AUTOMATION COMPANIES!!!! you are using STOLEN software and think you have the right to sit here and complain about the direction of a company which was never going your direction in the first place..

go get a harmony system and enjoy it and stop complaining that there are additional steps being placed to stop consumers from screwing up their systems. If you are getting nickel and dimed by a dealer i am sorry. Some of us are good dealers but we keep our customers so happy they dont even go on the internet looking for answers to their C4 system because it works how its supposed to. With that said i have fixed a few consumers systems from this board all of which are extremely happy with the work provided and the prices.

You guys can keep whining but at the end of the day you are breaking the law using copyrighted software which you are not licensed to use and obtained illegally, you KNEW 100% KNEW that Control4 is a DEALER ONLY SYSTEM and that it is NOT DIY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kevin, Questions!!!

what's the difference between using a pirated copy of MS windows and obtaining an illegal copy Composer Pro.

what's the difference between backing up netflix movies and obtaining an illegal copy Composer Pro.

what's the difference between modding PS3/xbox360 to play copied games and obtaining an illegal copy Composer Pro.

what's the difference between having the iphone Jailbreak to get free Apple APPs and obtaining an illegal copy Composer Pro.

this list will go on.

YOUR HOMEWORK TONIGHT IS TO WRITE UP THOSE LEGAL FACT AND TURN THAT TO C4 LEGAL?

Thanks Kevin.

[Letran]

Now this is something actually worth waiting for.

Oh...and did you all catch the other huge announcment...guess what. OMG. The Beatles have come to iTunes!

That's Funny

Letran- Let me ask you this. what system did you start on and what system are you on now?

I'm a new install I've only had 1.82. I'm thinking of going to 2.04 but my system is still way to slow to venture out of 1.82 with only 2 HC300. Why do you ask? (btw, my 2.0 licence came with the controller)

I'm merely stating that switching to 2.0 specially if you have to change or lose equipment mainly for GUI is as shallow (if not more) for wanting a pc interface which I find a lot more useful than having diff looking icons from what what I use to have.

And OF COURSE, let us not lose base of the fact that 90% of the uses of Control4 or any HA system is SHALLOW.

[Letran]

Let me get this straight. Many of you have ILLEGALLY obtained copies of composer so you can do things to your project and refuse to update to 2.0 beacuse you will lose that.

CONTROL4 IS NOT A DIY PRODUCT. IT NEVER WAS NOR IS CRESTRON OR AMX OR MANY OTHER AUTOMATION COMPANIES!!!! you are using STOLEN software and think you have the right to sit here and complain about the direction of a company which was never going your direction in the first place..

go get a harmony system and enjoy it and stop complaining that there are additional steps being placed to stop consumers from screwing up their systems. If you are getting nickel and dimed by a dealer i am sorry. Some of us are good dealers but we keep our customers so happy they dont even go on the internet looking for answers to their C4 system because it works how its supposed to. With that said i have fixed a few consumers systems from this board all of which are extremely happy with the work provided and the prices.

You guys can keep whining but at the end of the day you are breaking the law using copyrighted software which you are not licensed to use and obtained illegally' date=' you KNEW 100% KNEW that Control4 is a DEALER ONLY SYSTEM and that it is NOT DIY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/quote']

Kevin, Questions!!!

what's the difference between using a pirated copy of MS windows and obtaining an illegal copy Composer Pro.

what's the difference between backing up netflix movies and obtaining an illegal copy Composer Pro.

what's the difference between modding PS3/xbox360 to play copied games and obtaining an illegal copy Composer Pro.

what's the difference between having the iphone Jailbreak to get free Apple APPs and obtaining an illegal copy Composer Pro.

this list will go on.

YOUR HOMEWORK TONIGHT IS TO WRITE UP THOSE LEGAL FACT AND TURN THAT TO C4 LEGAL?

Thanks Kevin.

He who cast the first stone...

[CFUG]

^The reason I ask this is if you have little idea what 2.0.4 is like with a premium controller up against it, you are missing something. This, compared to being able to push buttons on a PC to work lights, is no comparison at all.

[ILoveC4]

Let me get this straight. Many of you have ILLEGALLY obtained copies of composer so you can do things to your project and refuse to update to 2.0 beacuse you will lose that.

CONTROL4 IS NOT A DIY PRODUCT. IT NEVER WAS NOR IS CRESTRON OR AMX OR MANY OTHER AUTOMATION COMPANIES!!!! you are using STOLEN software and think you have the right to sit here and complain about the direction of a company which was never going your direction in the first place..

go get a harmony system and enjoy it and stop complaining that there are additional steps being placed to stop consumers from screwing up their systems. If you are getting nickel and dimed by a dealer i am sorry. Some of us are good dealers but we keep our customers so happy they dont even go on the internet looking for answers to their C4 system because it works how its supposed to. With that said i have fixed a few consumers systems from this board all of which are extremely happy with the work provided and the prices.

You guys can keep whining but at the end of the day you are breaking the law using copyrighted software which you are not licensed to use and obtained illegally' date=' you KNEW 100% KNEW that Control4 is a DEALER ONLY SYSTEM and that it is NOT DIY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/quote']

Kevin, Questions!!!

what's the difference between using a pirated copy of MS windows and obtaining an illegal copy Composer Pro.

what's the difference between backing up netflix movies and obtaining an illegal copy Composer Pro.

what's the difference between modding PS3/xbox360 to play copied games and obtaining an illegal copy Composer Pro.

what's the difference between having the iphone Jailbreak to get free Apple APPs and obtaining an illegal copy Composer Pro.

this list will go on.

YOUR HOMEWORK TONIGHT IS TO WRITE UP THOSE LEGAL FACT AND TURN THAT TO C4 LEGAL?

Thanks Kevin.

Come on man. Those are no different that obtaining an illegal copy of Composer Pro. Legally all of those things are wrong. When you knowing take something that isn't yours, it's wrong.

That said, there is certainly an arguement for some gray area on things like modding your XBOX.

[chesterwilson]

Let me get this straight. Many of you have ILLEGALLY obtained copies of composer so you can do things to your project and refuse to update to 2.0 beacuse you will lose that.

CONTROL4 IS NOT A DIY PRODUCT. IT NEVER WAS NOR IS CRESTRON OR AMX OR MANY OTHER AUTOMATION COMPANIES!!!! you are using STOLEN software and think you have the right to sit here and complain about the direction of a company which was never going your direction in the first place..

go get a harmony system and enjoy it and stop complaining that there are additional steps being placed to stop consumers from screwing up their systems. If you are getting nickel and dimed by a dealer i am sorry. Some of us are good dealers but we keep our customers so happy they dont even go on the internet looking for answers to their C4 system because it works how its supposed to. With that said i have fixed a few consumers systems from this board all of which are extremely happy with the work provided and the prices.

You guys can keep whining but at the end of the day you are breaking the law using copyrighted software which you are not licensed to use and obtained illegally' date=' you KNEW 100% KNEW that Control4 is a DEALER ONLY SYSTEM and that it is NOT DIY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/quote']

Kevin, Questions!!!

what's the difference between using a pirated copy of MS windows and obtaining an illegal copy Composer Pro.

what's the difference between backing up netflix movies and obtaining an illegal copy Composer Pro.

what's the difference between modding PS3/xbox360 to play copied games and obtaining an illegal copy Composer Pro.

what's the difference between having the iphone Jailbreak to get free Apple APPs and obtaining an illegal copy Composer Pro.

this list will go on.

YOUR HOMEWORK TONIGHT IS TO WRITE UP THOSE LEGAL FACT AND TURN THAT TO C4 LEGAL?

Thanks Kevin.

Come on man. Those are no different that obtaining an illegal copy of Composer Pro. Legally all of those things are wrong. When you knowing take something that isn't yours, it's wrong.

That said, there is certainly an arguement for some gray area on things like modding your XBOX.

How about modding your Control4?

[ILoveC4]

Kevin' date=' Questions!!!

what's the difference between using a pirated copy of MS windows and obtaining an illegal copy Composer Pro.

what's the difference between backing up netflix movies and obtaining an illegal copy Composer Pro.

what's the difference between modding PS3/xbox360 to play copied games and obtaining an illegal copy Composer Pro.

what's the difference between having the iphone Jailbreak to get free Apple APPs and obtaining an illegal copy Composer Pro.

this list will go on.

YOUR HOMEWORK TONIGHT IS TO WRITE UP THOSE LEGAL FACT AND TURN THAT TO C4 LEGAL?

Thanks Kevin.[/quote']

Come on man. Those are no different that obtaining an illegal copy of Composer Pro. Legally all of those things are wrong. When you knowing take something that isn't yours, it's wrong.

That said, there is certainly an arguement for some gray area on things like modding your XBOX.

How about modding your Control4?

This is one arguement that I will not engage in, because it is senseless. If you ask me, using files that exist on the Control4 products, that I legally purchased, for my own personal use is not wrong.

Modding your XBOX, is not wrong. You can do whatever you want with your XBOX. It is what you do with the modified XBOX that could be wrong.

I will stand by the fact that through all of this (making a PC Flash Navigator), I have not done ANYTHING that is illegal, or immoral for that matter.

I am not going to engage in the arguement about whether pirating software is legal or not. That arguement won't go anywhere regardless of what points are made.

[ILoveC4]

Let me get this straight. Many of you have ILLEGALLY obtained copies of composer so you can do things to your project and refuse to update to 2.0 beacuse you will lose that.

CONTROL4 IS NOT A DIY PRODUCT. IT NEVER WAS NOR IS CRESTRON OR AMX OR MANY OTHER AUTOMATION COMPANIES!!!! you are using STOLEN software and think you have the right to sit here and complain about the direction of a company which was never going your direction in the first place..

go get a harmony system and enjoy it and stop complaining that there are additional steps being placed to stop consumers from screwing up their systems. If you are getting nickel and dimed by a dealer i am sorry. Some of us are good dealers but we keep our customers so happy they dont even go on the internet looking for answers to their C4 system because it works how its supposed to. With that said i have fixed a few consumers systems from this board all of which are extremely happy with the work provided and the prices.

You guys can keep whining but at the end of the day you are breaking the law using copyrighted software which you are not licensed to use and obtained illegally' date=' you KNEW 100% KNEW that Control4 is a DEALER ONLY SYSTEM and that it is NOT DIY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/quote']

Kevin, it is also worth noting that there are a lot of customers that were sold systems by dealers that provided them with Composer Pro. I personally had Composer Pro for years before I realized I wasn't supposed to have it! So, what happens to the guys like me, that bought a system based on that software being provided (free of charge I might add)?

I bought all my equipment (until this past year, 2010 - I did buy direct from them in 2009) directly from Control4. Went down to their headquarters on Election Rd in Draper, checked out the lab, they showed off the product, and I bought it. It took two days to "come in", and I went and picked it up. A Control4 employee came out to my house and taught me how to use Composer (Pro - I didn't know there was any other version), and helped me setup my system. I order a lot more gear, directly from Control4 over the next few years. I was WAY down the road in both experience and expense before I realized that my experience was any different than anybody elses. So now, you look at a guy like me, that has over $50k invested in the product, my entire house relies on it, and now I can't use it the way it was sold to me? Is Control4 going to buy this all back? NO - they, along with guys like you, call me a criminal and tell me that I am breaking the law. How would YOU feel after YOU invested $50k in a product, just to find out that the entire premise you purchased it under was a false one? You'd probably be quick to call the people that took your money scammers....put the blame on them and site the consumer for lack education when purchasing...right? Well, what about in my situation where the person that failed to inform me is the manufacturer...the almighty Control4 themselves? You're going to get mad at me for trying my hardest to continue to enjoy MY $50k investment in the way that I intended and the premise that I was sold on?

You don't know every situation Kevin. Maybe mine is extremely unique, maybe not so unique. There are a lot of people that live here that have Control4...how did they buy it? I know several people that had an experience just like mine...two of them no longer have Control4 because of what it ended up being (the locked down product we deal with today). So quit telling me what I did and didn't know when I wrote a big check (several of them) because you have no idea. Quit painting everybody with the same broad brush.

Not so quick to respond to this one huh Kevin?

[jayace]

It still blows my mind that a dealer would come on this forum and repeatedly slam the very customers that support his business based on speculation and assumption. Wow, talk about arrogance.

[chesterwilson]

Come on man. Those are no different that obtaining an illegal copy of Composer Pro. Legally all of those things are wrong. When you knowing take something that isn't yours' date=' it's wrong.

That said, there is certainly an arguement for some gray area on things like modding your XBOX.[/quote']

How about modding your Control4?

This is one arguement that I will not engage in, because it is senseless. If you ask me, using files that exist on the Control4 products, that I legally purchased, for my own personal use is not wrong.

Modding your XBOX, is not wrong. You can do whatever you want with your XBOX. It is what you do with the modified XBOX that could be wrong.

I will stand by the fact that through all of this (making a PC Flash Navigator), I have not done ANYTHING that is illegal, or immoral for that matter.

I am not going to engage in the arguement about whether pirating software is legal or not. That arguement won't go anywhere regardless of what points are made.

I was talking about modding your system through Composer Pro.

In terms of your PC flash workaround, I don't see anything wrong in pulling files from your controller and mirroring it on to your pc to serve as a separate interface. You were smart enough to figure it out. Control4 should be yelling at there own programmers not you or any other consumer.

Finally, I find it funny that they will remove this loop hole in the next update, of course it will cost you $100 to "update" your system.

[ILoveC4]

In terms of your PC flash workaround, I don't see anything wrong in pulling files from your controller and mirroring it on to your pc to serve as a separate interface. You were smart enough to figure it out. Control4 should be yelling at there own programmers not you or any other consumer.

Finally, I find it funny that they will remove this loop hole in the next update, of course it will cost you $100 to "update" your system.

Exactly. I didn't do anything wrong, and to look at all the energy being focused on this. Instead, spend that time and energy weeding out the idiot dealers that cause most of the problems people come to this forum for, and spend more time with the good ones...listen to them...some of them have great ideas.

[Kevin L]

lol I am so sorry for leaving the site and not waiting for you to reply.. I will be commenting on some of your posts but its about that time that this is getting old and boring. The drama is gone. You are going to start to try to play the good guy with all of your stories.

[ILoveC4]

I'm not the bad guy...I'm not playing anything. There's no "story", it's what happened...it is what it is.

[tebery]

I too was given pro when my system was installed. I never used but also never knew I wasn't suppose to have it.

[RyanE]

This post is completely *MY OWN* opinion, as I don't typically speak *officially* for Control4 on these forums.

These forums are *NOT* run by Control4, and it's not up to Control4 to ban or yank posts, etc. Control4 doesn't maintain editorial control over what happens here, so complaints about "the company" or "those people", implying Control4, is not typically accurate.

Stating that Control4 is wasting significant time worrying about what happens on these forums or expending significant energy to 'fix a loophole' is also a bit misleading.

My guess is that *maybe* the number of employees that have heard anything about this thread inside of Control4 can be counted on both hands. Maybe not even that many.

'Portable Navigator' (or whatever it will eventually be called) has been in planning for much longer than this 'hack' has been known, and this 'hack' has been known within Control4 *forever*. I ran the 7" Flash Navigator in my Nokia N800's browser a year before 2.0's release. It's not rocket science.

There have been more important things that have needed to be done. It has always been part of the plan, when the UI is productized, to ensure that it's running on a licensed platform. There are many reasons for that, on top of the profit motive. It's beyond the scope of a forum post (and not really my job or business) to explain them.

When 'Portable Navigator' is available, *then* you can certainly decide whether you think it's worth the cost or not. Only you can decide whether the capabilities Control4 gives you is worth the amount you spend.

I'm not saying that the issues raised here are not important, they just aren't the day-to-day discussion at Control4. Issues raised here *do* get discussed and addressed, but typically, it's usually the dealers who raise these same issues, on the Official Control4 Dealer Forums.

Just about the only thing on this forum that *does* raise Control4's interest is when things get posted on this forum VERBATIM from posts on the Official Control4 Dealer forums.

Honestly, that's not cool, and not too smart, either. That sort of shenanigans are likely to cause this forum problems going forward. That's not a threat, just my perception of an issue.

RyanE

[strange_brew]

And OF COURSE, let us not lose base on the fact that 90% of the uses of Control4 or any HA system is SHALLOW.

LOL. Now that is what I call, "putting it into perspective"!

[jroza1]

So shouldn't the users ultimately drive the direction of products? I do understand Kevin's point of view that this is not DIY and I think with all of the crocodile tears we see from dealers and control4 representatives we get it and we hear it, but i must say it makes not one bit of difference.

I have composer - I am not a dealer. I am DIY. I certainly won't tell you your business so say your warnings and move on. I do plan on doing the upgrade after I integrate all of the systems and do all of the major stuff. I REFUSE to pay a "dealer" to change out a switch or connect a router. I do have my own challenges with making everything work properly as i want, but I understand that is part of the issue with being DIY. This is a very complex system and I don't hold it against C4 for wanting to go into a locked down direction. I think it makes perfect sense to move in this direction; however, if I had to pay what magnolia and other local installers wanted to charge to install a simple system I never would have gone in this direction.

I also think that dealers have a market working with DIY guys like me. I am willing to pay for programming that is advanced and can provide me a great value - I am not interested in paying an hourly wage for somebody to set up a light switch. Knowing how Composer allows one to set up switches and dimmers it takes 30 seconds or less, so I either need to wait until I can pull together 60 minutes of work for some slouch to log in and do all of it - but that does mean that I have to live with an incomplete system because I am not a dealer... Or why doesn't a dealer set up a simplified site that allows me to pay $5 to integrate a switch or $20 for a boulen script? Find a market or create a market... can't do either - move on.

I know I program at my own peril and that should anything go sideways Control4 won't back my install and I know that some dealers might not even work with me, but that is their problem - because I can still find people to help.

for those of you who boohoo that I am a criminal or some nefarious rogue DIY'er killing your value as a dealer or for those of you who might be manufacturers who boohoo because I have your software, I think you are moving in the right direction in terms of preventing DIY. You are not doing anything to destroy my system and I will naturally not be able to advance to connected applications (which I want) until I become supported. I am fine with this as I stated above - but there are a lot of people like me who look to upgrade paths and such and it might be an actual new market for Control4 to move in if they are interested in cultivating long term clients.

KevinL I find your diatribes disgusting, trite, and not at all useful. Engage with your users - don't alienate us to make yourself feel like a big boy because you won't win fans and you won't win clients with that kind of behavior. The 3 or 4 dealers I have worked with on this site, I chose because they were understanding of my system and my needs... Not to mention, all of them offered to upgrade me when the time comes. I think it is time for us all to resolve this issue... dealers and Control4 you are not going to convince DIY'ers to disappear and DIY'ers need to stop bitching and moaning that Control4 has a product strategy and we don't fit into-we knew it when we started pirating the system and whining is becoming annoying.

[jayace]

I too was given pro when my system was installed. I never used but also never knew I wasn't suppose to have it.

I would venture to say that alot of users had it given to them without asking and didn't seek out to acquire it. But lets blame the users eh Kevin?

[ILoveC4]

^Exactly. What I posted is 100% true and accurate. After typing it actually makes me even more angry!

[takitezsdc]

ROFL>>>>>>>>>>>Yall let it go!!! geeez..........stop stressing! It is what it is.!

C4 is going to release a version for us all to enjoy............lets all have a group hug and be thankfull for C4!!