What The Heck!!!

[dgbrown]

^ Thanks for the 411. Can we plan on these being $299 like the iPhone license. After the price drop, followed by the bait and switch they pulled with the so called bundled 4sight license - I'm not so sure this will be a hot seller at a price.

We probably shouldn't talk about the fact that C4 conveniently distributes through iTunes at no cost (beating Apple out their end), charges an activation fee on the back end, and completely screwed the guys that paid since C4 didn't actually own the IP and updates were ... less than timely.

Flash nav is an easy freebie. It replaces and competes with nothing in their existing line, and it's a great value add for the dealers.

This said, the marketing team there needs some help, and some of the dealer base needs to come to terms with and figure out how to make the most of no margin value add products.

[bsanf3]

... I am just saying that my experiences here so far have been more negative then positive. I have tried to contribute to c4forums the way i contribute to the dealer forum and i have always felt that if you help people then in return people will do the right thing by you. Unfortunately i have found out the hard way that the world is an ugly place and in the end its just not worth the effort.

The politics on this forum are too hard to handle sometimes. Sometimes i feel that maybe i should just stop posting on forums and concentrate more on my day to day life. Anyway thats the end of my rant. I'm exhausted.

For Dan, Alan & others:

“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”. - from poet John Lydgate, later adapted by President Lincoln

Do it for your enjoyment and if others benefit its a bonus.

[dans]

Nickel and Dime us to death just so we can access our system continues to be a huge turn off to me.

Flash Navigator, Iphone App, Ipad App, Android App, etc... should be freebies in my opinion, and here is why:

I started my control4 experience with my theater room, 4 zone amplifier, and 1 touch screen...i did it all in the theater, lights, controls, etc...

I was about to throw in the towel due to lack of accessibility of my system -- the remote control is inconvenient at times, i had the on-screen navigator but it didn't do me any good unless i was in the theater room, and the touch screen was nice but slow and not portable.

I decided to try the IPhone app just for kicks before i gave up.

That app all by itself changed my mind, i could do everything and it was fast and was always near by.

Just in the last 6 months I've now expanded full controls in 4 rooms, added an 8 zone amp, 2 iphone licenses, 2 ipad licenses, a couple speaker points, and some other stuff.

Based on my experience, my feeling is control4 should GIVE away every form of access to their system that they can....If you cant access it easily, you wont want to use it and you probably WONT expand it.

I still have quite a bit of expansion i want to do, but it seems like there is a little "Apple" style attitude coming out here...I sure hope they think long and hard before they start limiting things and charging for every little thing they can.

My 2 cents.

[henniae]

Nickel and Dime us to death just so we can access our system continues to be a huge turn off to me.

Flash Navigator, Iphone App, Ipad App, Android App, etc... should be freebies in my opinion, and here is why: <snip>

You can always start your own company, build the application and give it away for free.

[nikon]

lol

[wappinghigh]

Hey Dans. You've summed up the situation beautifully, but hang in their mate.

Some dealers seem ultra paronoid at the moment that the sky will fall in. And that such moves to iphone and computer control will mean they can't keep selling high margin gear like touchscreens. That somehow, the inevitable change to additional forms of control will "kill" the whole product. But this is nonsense IMHO. The world has moved on. There is no going back. Your story is a great example of why there is absolutely no justification for this worry. It will all be win win in the end. Keep the faith!

[janusz]

I am dealer and in my opinion this will only help selling more to the customers. And the whole experience will be better for them as well.

Dan - great job.

Dan dont listent to the dealers..........they are being babies. Do what you do and share the info you have..........we love ya!!

Your Friend!

Enduser!

[ILoveC4]

I've had some very interesting conversations today with several different people....some of which were really surprising. I was not threatened by anybody, or treated rudely. However, after these conversations I have decided that my project probably shouldn't go any further publically. It is clear that I have struck a serious nerve here, and I want to play nice....just know that I am not giving way to any threats....I don't respond well to those.

With regards to all the "hate" mail I am getting from upset dealers....grow up. I haven't done anything to hurt any of you.

[ILoveC4]

Also, for those of you (you know who you are) on that "other" forum claiming that you will track me down by IP address, and that you will shut my site down, that I'm hiding behind the computer, etc...shoot me an email. I'm happy to chat with you. If you want my public IP at my home and office just ask...I'll give it to you. I don't have anything to hide from anybody.

Nobody is shutting my site down, I haven't done anything wrong.

This is a "witch hunt", and the guy you're looking for isn't hiding. If you have any questions for me...email me at the link to the left.

[CFUG]

^Let it roll off your back. Even us stupid users get treated poorly from certain dealers. Just ignore it.

[AJ_]

Nice work' date=' Dan. If jail breaking the iPhone is now legal, we shouldn't have any issues here. We need to build a stronger DIY C4 community.[/quote']

bring your jail broken iphone into the apple store and see what type of warranty you have...

Agreed, my phone is not supported when jailbroken. But that's my risk and I am willing to take it sometimes. At least I have a choice.

[ILoveC4]

^Let it roll off your back. Even us stupid users get treated poorly from certain dealers. Just ignore it.

Yeah, I'm not worried about it. I just know a lot of people are excited about this so I figured I would let them know.

[CFUG]

Gotcha.

[Kevin L]

Also, for those of you (you know who you are) on that "other" forum claiming that you will track me down by IP address, and that you will shut my site down, that I'm hiding behind the computer, etc...shoot me an email. I'm happy to chat with you. If you want my public IP at my home and office just ask...I'll give it to you. I don't have anything to hide from anybody.

Nobody is shutting my site down, I haven't done anything wrong.

This is a "witch hunt", and the guy you're looking for isn't hiding. If you have any questions for me...email me at the link to the left.

lol. I mentioned verifying IP addresses of users logged in from this forum against the private c4 forums. i find it so funny you think you arent doing anything wrong yet you some how keep getting access to something private. You do know that the terms of that forum bind you from discussing anything on it outside of it? If another dealer is discussing information from there to you then he will be dealt with as well. Basically you are stealing private information and posting it for public use.

You also say you have nothing to hide from anyone yet here is a quote from you "Kevin, with regards to me wanting to be popular...try again. I really enjoy this stuff, and (unlike you apparently) I don't see any point in keeping the cool things I figure out quiet. There is a reason why my user ID isn't my name (like yours is), and why I am simply "Dan". I am not worried about popularity, or making friends...I'm just enjoying this technology and having fun"

I think its funny you first say you have nothing to hide yet you only go by Dan because you dont care about being popular or making friends.. If you didnt care about being popular and making friends i dont think you would be posting private information about a way to access navigator...

Also as an FYI there is no mentioning of shutting down your site.. Just references to others wanting it gone

[ILoveC4]

Kevin, we've spoke before...several times. If you've got a question for me you know how to reach me.

Furthermore if anyone else here has a valid point to discuss with me, email me and I'll get you my contact info.

Kevin, I haven't violated anything...you clearly don't understand all the dynamics at work here...

[CFUG]

^attaboy

[thinslis]

Also' date=' for those of you (you know who you are) on that "other" forum claiming that you will track me down by IP address, and that you will shut my site down, that I'm hiding behind the computer, etc...shoot me an email. I'm happy to chat with you. If you want my public IP at my home and office just ask...I'll give it to you. I don't have anything to hide from anybody.

Nobody is shutting my site down, I haven't done anything wrong.

This is a "witch hunt", and the guy you're looking for isn't hiding. If you have any questions for me...email me at the link to the left.[/quote']

lol. I mentioned verifying IP addresses of users logged in from this forum against the private c4 forums. i find it so funny you think you arent doing anything wrong yet you some how keep getting access to something private. You do know that the terms of that forum bind you from discussing anything on it outside of it? If another dealer is discussing information from there to you then he will be dealt with as well. Basically you are stealing private information and posting it for public use.

You also say you have nothing to hide from anyone yet here is a quote from you "Kevin, with regards to me wanting to be popular...try again. I really enjoy this stuff, and (unlike you apparently) I don't see any point in keeping the cool things I figure out quiet. There is a reason why my user ID isn't my name (like yours is), and why I am simply "Dan". I am not worried about popularity, or making friends...I'm just enjoying this technology and having fun"

I think its funny you first say you have nothing to hide yet you only go by Dan because you dont care about being popular or making friends.. If you didnt care about being popular and making friends i dont think you would be posting private information about a way to access navigator...

Also as an FYI there is no mentioning of shutting down your site.. Just references to others wanting it gone

Wow seriously... you are acting like someone leaked a national secret or something... This information isn't stealing food out of your kids mouths or anything. You're still going to sell just as many touch screens tomorrow as you were going to before this came out. I'm sure you are also going to be able to charge $150/hr to help someone "fix" their broken system... even though its probably broken because your code was flawed.

[jayace]

Good for you Dan, keep up the great work. Us users learn alot from you and really get more from our system because of what you and others who unselfishly contribute on this forum do. That said, perhaps your video is a little antagonistic. Regardless, keep up the good work.

If some dealers want to continue to look foolish in the eyes of all the "customers" on here with their ridiculous posts, let them. I for one will continue to welcome any opportunity C4, dealers, or customers want to use to show us more added value to the product we continue to purchase, upgrade, etc. In the end it's the customers that win and hopefully get a better choice and product to chose from. It's apparent from some of the posts on here that others have more selfish reasons as motive for their actions and need to learn a lot about customer service in general and should think twice before they post on a forum full of customers, current and future. Makes you wonder who's best interests they are really looking out for?

[ILoveC4]

Makes you wonder who's best interests they are really looking out for?

I don't have to wonder for too long.

That said, there are a few great dealers on here. Unfortunately, there's just as many that are, well...not great =)

[thegizzard]

Wow. Pretty incredible to watch this go on. This is a pretty nice case study to watch. I think it will soon read as a cautionary tale.

I am in technology for a living, and I obviously pay attention to this stuff as a hobby. I love my new control4 setup. But what's going on here is pretty disturbing.

Here are my 2 cents.

1. Technology is moving very fast.

2. There are many ways to monetize a product or service

3. Old ways are being supplanted by new ways

4. Information is your friend. Treat it as an enemy at your own risk

There are many examples... but for a recent one....look at the growth of the Android operating system over the last two years. How did Google do it? What has happened to Nokia over that same period? RIM? APPLE?

Which would you rather be, Google or Nokia?

Given the speed technology moves and the ever reducing cost and size if hardware, the home automation industry could wake up one morning reading about its Android equivalent and considering the all of the missed opportunites that allowed it to be.

[dgbrown]

^ Been saying that ... Product margin is nice but create value that goes well beyond product. That's how to stay in business.

I always thought there was some interesting discussion and ideas shared here, in addition to the help me fix my system. You would think an enthusiast site like this would represent an early look at what might be interesting to bring to the general market. A sounding board, etc. A real time look at life with a C4 system. Instead, it's filled with animosity. I'm really surprised - perhaps this speaks for the industry as a whole, I don't know.

Reference your post, here's a real example that speaks volumes -

Take a look at the 4Store model:

* Great concept

* Target participant: existing dealer network

* Cost: ~$300

* Question 1: What percentage of the existing dealer network has the skill to write code ?

* Question 2: What percentage of the folks with the talent outside the dealer network will pony up ?

* Question 3: What is the 4Stores destiny ?

[ruckus]

Reminds me of the recording industry that treats customers as criminals. Would be nice if c4 looked at this and figured out a way to improve things between dealers and customers as it c4 who has defined the relationship.

[jayace]

Reminds me of the recording industry that treats customers as criminals. Would be nice if c4 looked at this and figured out a way to improve things between dealers and customers as it c4 who has defined the relationship.

Agreed, it really is too bad that the creativity that could benefit so many on here is seemingly frowned upon and seen as a threat because it comes from the users. In the end its us customers that lose. Not a good model for business. There is so much potential with this cool product, but the focus is far too narrow and seemingly restrictive. I hope Control4 takes notice.

[wappinghigh]

Also, for those of you (you know who you are) on that "other" forum claiming that you will track me down by IP address....

Are you serious? They want to do that? That's ridiculous. Host it somewhere else in the world, put it on a VPN or something.. move it around...then get yourself an alias...oh and don't forget the big coat and dark sunglasses. :cool:

[ILoveC4]

^I've got nothing to hide. If I wanted to, I know how. Thanks though wappinghigh.

I just got off an interesting phone call. I may change my mind here...Control4 is taking an interesting stance with somebody who is a large proponent of their products.