What The Heck!!!

[derickson1472]

This post is completely *MY OWN* opinion, as I don't typically speak *officially* for Control4 on these forums.

These forums are *NOT* run by Control4, and it's not up to Control4 to ban or yank posts, etc. Control4 doesn't maintain editorial control over what happens here, so complaints about "the company" or "those people", implying Control4, is not typically accurate.

Stating that Control4 is wasting significant time worrying about what happens on these forums or expending significant energy to 'fix a loophole' is also a bit misleading.

My guess is that *maybe* the number of employees that have heard anything about this thread inside of Control4 can be counted on both hands. Maybe not even that many.

'Portable Navigator' (or whatever it will eventually be called) has been in planning for much longer than this 'hack' has been known, and this 'hack' has been known within Control4 *forever*. I ran the 7" Flash Navigator in my Nokia N800's browser a year before 2.0's release. It's not rocket science.

There have been more important things that have needed to be done. It has always been part of the plan, when the UI is productized, to ensure that it's running on a licensed platform. There are many reasons for that, on top of the profit motive. It's beyond the scope of a forum post (and not really my job or business) to explain them.

When 'Portable Navigator' is available, *then* you can certainly decide whether you think it's worth the cost or not. Only you can decide whether the capabilities Control4 gives you is worth the amount you spend.

I'm not saying that the issues raised here are not important, they just aren't the day-to-day discussion at Control4. Issues raised here *do* get discussed and addressed, but typically, it's usually the dealers who raise these same issues, on the Official Control4 Dealer Forums.

Just about the only thing on this forum that *does* raise Control4's interest is when things get posted on this forum VERBATIM from posts on the Official Control4 Dealer forums.

Honestly, that's not cool, and not too smart, either. That sort of shenanigans are likely to cause this forum problems going forward. That's not a threat, just my perception of an issue.

RyanE

[derickson1472]

This post is completely *MY OWN* opinion' date=' as I don't typically speak *officially* for Control4 on these forums.

These forums are *NOT* run by Control4, and it's not up to Control4 to ban or yank posts, etc. Control4 doesn't maintain editorial control over what happens here, so complaints about "the company" or "those people", implying Control4, is not typically accurate.

Stating that Control4 is wasting significant time worrying about what happens on these forums or expending significant energy to 'fix a loophole' is also a bit misleading.

My guess is that *maybe* the number of employees that have heard anything about this thread inside of Control4 can be counted on both hands. Maybe not even that many.

'Portable Navigator' (or whatever it will eventually be called) has been in planning for much longer than this 'hack' has been known, and this 'hack' has been known within Control4 *forever*. I ran the 7" Flash Navigator in my Nokia N800's browser a year before 2.0's release. It's not rocket science.

There have been more important things that have needed to be done. It has always been part of the plan, when the UI is productized, to ensure that it's running on a licensed platform. There are many reasons for that, on top of the profit motive. It's beyond the scope of a forum post (and not really my job or business) to explain them.

When 'Portable Navigator' is available, *then* you can certainly decide whether you think it's worth the cost or not. Only you can decide whether the capabilities Control4 gives you is worth the amount you spend.

I'm not saying that the issues raised here are not important, they just aren't the day-to-day discussion at Control4. Issues raised here *do* get discussed and addressed, but typically, it's usually the dealers who raise these same issues, on the Official Control4 Dealer Forums.

Just about the only thing on this forum that *does* raise Control4's interest is when things get posted on this forum VERBATIM from posts on the Official Control4 Dealer forums.

Honestly, that's not cool, and not too smart, either. That sort of shenanigans are likely to cause this forum problems going forward. That's not a threat, just my perception of an issue.

RyanE[/quote']

I may be in the minority, but I'll have no problem paying for Portable Navigator when it is ready! Hopefully it will be part of the much talked about bundeling service where you will also get iphones, etc

Thanks

Dave

[jroza1]

This post is completely *MY OWN* opinion, as I don't typically speak *officially* for Control4 on these forums.

These forums are *NOT* run by Control4, and it's not up to Control4 to ban or yank posts, etc. Control4 doesn't maintain editorial control over what happens here, so complaints about "the company" or "those people", implying Control4, is not typically accurate.

Stating that Control4 is wasting significant time worrying about what happens on these forums or expending significant energy to 'fix a loophole' is also a bit misleading...

Just about the only thing on this forum that *does* raise Control4's interest is when things get posted on this forum VERBATIM from posts on the Official Control4 Dealer forums.

...

Honestly, that's not cool, and not too smart, either. That sort of shenanigans are likely to cause this forum problems going forward. That's not a threat, just my perception of an issue.

RyanE

So I am just curious, what do you mean that the reposts might cause this forum problems? I am confused. On one hand you talk about how this is some petty little forum that only a handful of internal folks pay attention to and then you suggest that if these shenanigans continue there could be problems. I know you probably mean that those who cross post or copy and paste information can lose their status based on the terms of being a dealer and having access to those forums, correct?

Other than that, I don't see any legal recourse for control4 and though your statement begins with a declarative that this is your opinion and its not a threat it seems rather strong and in the company's interest. I know the catch22 you are in... I work for a telco company and about 1:3 mobile phone and home phone users access my company's network - so i have to be careful what predictions I make because even with a declarative statement I still represent my company.

[wappinghigh]

Dave. Your not the only one. I'll be definitely getting it too..

But I tell you what I won't be getting...just because a guy in jeans and a black polo neck tells me its about to change my life!

Luv luv me do....

You know I luv you...

[takitezsdc]

Yall GO DRINK A BEER!!! GEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZ STOP STRESSING lol............../hug

[takitezsdc]

Its A Nav!!!! Not A Blonde Nake Lady!

[nikon]

This post is completely *MY OWN* opinion' date=' as I don't typically speak *officially* for Control4 on these forums.

These forums are *NOT* run by Control4, and it's not up to Control4 to ban or yank posts, etc. Control4 doesn't maintain editorial control over what happens here, so complaints about "the company" or "those people", implying Control4, is not typically accurate.

Stating that Control4 is wasting significant time worrying about what happens on these forums or expending significant energy to 'fix a loophole' is also a bit misleading.

My guess is that *maybe* the number of employees that have heard anything about this thread inside of Control4 can be counted on both hands. Maybe not even that many.

'Portable Navigator' (or whatever it will eventually be called) has been in planning for much longer than this 'hack' has been known, and this 'hack' has been known within Control4 *forever*. I ran the 7" Flash Navigator in my Nokia N800's browser a year before 2.0's release. It's not rocket science.

There have been more important things that have needed to be done. It has always been part of the plan, when the UI is productized, to ensure that it's running on a licensed platform. There are many reasons for that, on top of the profit motive. It's beyond the scope of a forum post (and not really my job or business) to explain them.

When 'Portable Navigator' is available, *then* you can certainly decide whether you think it's worth the cost or not. Only you can decide whether the capabilities Control4 gives you is worth the amount you spend.

I'm not saying that the issues raised here are not important, they just aren't the day-to-day discussion at Control4. Issues raised here *do* get discussed and addressed, but typically, it's usually the dealers who raise these same issues, on the Official Control4 Dealer Forums.

Just about the only thing on this forum that *does* raise Control4's interest is when things get posted on this forum VERBATIM from posts on the Official Control4 Dealer forums.

Honestly, that's not cool, and not too smart, either. That sort of shenanigans are likely to cause this forum problems going forward. That's not a threat, just my perception of an issue.

RyanE[/quote']

I may be in the minority, but I'll have no problem paying for Portable Navigator when it is ready! Hopefully it will be part of the much talked about bundeling service where you will also get iphones, etc

Thanks

Dave

I can't wait to have a 23" touchscreen interface for control4 mounted on my wall in the kitchen. Kind of overkill but I am going to do it.

[wappinghigh]

Its A Nav!!!! Not A Blonde Nake Lady!

I'll have a bit of what your havin....!

....can't buy me love...love....

[CFUG]

I still think it's not that big of a deal. I would rather have Control4 fix my nagging problems. But, if you can't beat 'em join 'em. Here is what the new Asus is going to b doing for me I guess...

[Letran]

Its A Nav!!!! Not A Blonde NakeD Lady!

lol

I hear you. In the spirit of Beatles...

Give peace a chance... everybody now...

[Letran]

I still think it's not that big of a deal. I would rather have Control4 fix my nagging problems. But, if you can't beat 'em join 'em. Here is what the new Asus is going to b doing for me I guess...

That's what I'm talking about.

I've got a 26" HP Touchsmart PC I was going to get another one but your right Controlfouruserguy this looks better and thinner. You got pricing on this thing.

[takitezsdc]

Its A Nav!!!! Not A Blonde Nake Lady!

I'll have a bit of what your havin....!

....can't buy me love...love....

THERE we go guys!! lol...........................relax!!! enjoy!!! Life is good! = C4!

[Letran]

Its A Nav!!!! Not A Blonde Nake Lady!

I'll have a bit of what your havin....!

....can't buy me love...love....

Can't buy love? Just wait I heard Control4 will have LICENCE FEE for that too on the next release. hehehe

[takitezsdc]

Its A Nav!!!! Not A Blonde Nake Lady!

I'll have a bit of what your havin....!

....can't buy me love...love....

Can't buy love? Just wait I heard Control4 will have LICENCE FEE for that too on the next release. hehehe

ladies................ Its all about the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!! Either you buy it or your you dont? lol........take a deep breath and feel da love!..............ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh yesssssssssssssssss Breath.............

[takitezsdc]

Its A Nav!!!! Not A Blonde Nake Lady!

I'll have a bit of what your havin....!

....can't buy me love...love....

Can't buy love? Just wait I heard Control4 will have LICENCE FEE for that too on the next release. hehehe

Letran.....you MUST not be married! lol...............trust me!! " LOVE " is all about the $$! = Shoes / purses ! lol

[takitezsdc]

Ok going to watch http://www.starz.com/originals/spartacus !!!

Yall ladies fight it out......................../muahhahah

[dogdvr]

This post is completely *MY OWN* opinion' date=' as I don't typically speak *officially* for Control4 on these forums.

These forums are *NOT* run by Control4, and it's not up to Control4 to ban or yank posts, etc. Control4 doesn't maintain editorial control over what happens here, so complaints about "the company" or "those people", implying Control4, is not typically accurate.

Stating that Control4 is wasting significant time worrying about what happens on these forums or expending significant energy to 'fix a loophole' is also a bit misleading...

Just about the only thing on this forum that *does* raise Control4's interest is when things get posted on this forum VERBATIM from posts on the Official Control4 Dealer forums.

...

Honestly, that's not cool, and not too smart, either. That sort of shenanigans are likely to cause this forum problems going forward. That's not a threat, just my perception of an issue.

RyanE[/quote']

So I am just curious, what do you mean that the reposts might cause this forum problems? I am confused. On one hand you talk about how this is some petty little forum that only a handful of internal folks pay attention to and then you suggest that if these shenanigans continue there could be problems. I know you probably mean that those who cross post or copy and paste information can lose their status based on the terms of being a dealer and having access to those forums, correct?

Other than that, I don't see any legal recourse for control4 and though your statement begins with a declarative that this is your opinion and its not a threat it seems rather strong and in the company's interest. I know the catch22 you are in... I work for a telco company and about 1:3 mobile phone and home phone users access my company's network - so i have to be careful what predictions I make because even with a declarative statement I still represent my company.

Well, this post just proves that you have no idea about the argument. You have no concern about what the argument is about. But you are willing to give your opinion.

Nice

[dogdvr]

Let me get this straight. Many of you have ILLEGALLY obtained copies of composer so you can do things to your project and refuse to update to 2.0 beacuse you will lose that.

CONTROL4 IS NOT A DIY PRODUCT. IT NEVER WAS NOR IS CRESTRON OR AMX OR MANY OTHER AUTOMATION COMPANIES!!!! you are using STOLEN software and think you have the right to sit here and complain about the direction of a company which was never going your direction in the first place..

go get a harmony system and enjoy it and stop complaining that there are additional steps being placed to stop consumers from screwing up their systems. If you are getting nickel and dimed by a dealer i am sorry. Some of us are good dealers but we keep our customers so happy they dont even go on the internet looking for answers to their C4 system because it works how its supposed to. With that said i have fixed a few consumers systems from this board all of which are extremely happy with the work provided and the prices.

You guys can keep whining but at the end of the day you are breaking the law using copyrighted software which you are not licensed to use and obtained illegally' date=' you KNEW 100% KNEW that Control4 is a DEALER ONLY SYSTEM and that it is NOT DIY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/quote']

Kevin, it is also worth noting that there are a lot of customers that were sold systems by dealers that provided them with Composer Pro. I personally had Composer Pro for years before I realized I wasn't supposed to have it! So, what happens to the guys like me, that bought a system based on that software being provided (free of charge I might add)?

I bought all my equipment (until this past year, 2010 - I did buy direct from them in 2009) directly from Control4. Went down to their headquarters on Election Rd in Draper, checked out the lab, they showed off the product, and I bought it. It took two days to "come in", and I went and picked it up. A Control4 employee came out to my house and taught me how to use Composer (Pro - I didn't know there was any other version), and helped me setup my system. I order a lot more gear, directly from Control4 over the next few years. I was WAY down the road in both experience and expense before I realized that my experience was any different than anybody elses. So now, you look at a guy like me, that has over $50k invested in the product, my entire house relies on it, and now I can't use it the way it was sold to me? Is Control4 going to buy this all back? NO - they, along with guys like you, call me a criminal and tell me that I am breaking the law. How would YOU feel after YOU invested $50k in a product, just to find out that the entire premise you purchased it under was a false one? You'd probably be quick to call the people that took your money scammers....put the blame on them and site the consumer for lack education when purchasing...right? Well, what about in my situation where the person that failed to inform me is the manufacturer...the almighty Control4 themselves? You're going to get mad at me for trying my hardest to continue to enjoy MY $50k investment in the way that I intended and the premise that I was sold on?

You don't know every situation Kevin. Maybe mine is extremely unique, maybe not so unique. There are a lot of people that live here that have Control4...how did they buy it? I know several people that had an experience just like mine...two of them no longer have Control4 because of what it ended up being (the locked down product we deal with today). So quit telling me what I did and didn't know when I wrote a big check (several of them) because you have no idea. Quit painting everybody with the same broad brush.

Dan,

Stop with the BULL ****

If you think that we have short memories then fine, you mistaken.

I can pull up the posts and emails under your previous name, and you KNOW exactly why you were given C pro. stop pretending otherwise.

Now, YOUR connection to get composer pro, dried up and left you hanging. TOO BAD.

You are now out of the loop, DEAL with it, or admit you are STEALING the IP.

MAN the crap UP

[wappinghigh]

I still think it's not that big of a deal. I would rather have Control4 fix my nagging problems. But, if you can't beat 'em join 'em. Here is what the new Asus is going to b doing for me I guess...

I'd want one with HDMI out. This have that? And the ability to manually turn off the "all in one's" screen, but still run the hdmi signal to the projector/big TV....

[RyanE]

So I am just curious, what do you mean that the reposts might cause this forum problems? I am confused. On one hand you talk about how this is some petty little forum that only a handful of internal folks pay attention to and then you suggest that if these shenanigans continue there could be problems. I know you probably mean that those who cross post or copy and paste information can lose their status based on the terms of being a dealer and having access to those forums, correct?

I can't make a threat, and neither can Control4, directly, since we don't run these forums. That doesn't mean I can't put 2 and 2 together to get 4.

If posts being re-posted from the private Control4 Dealer Forum to this form is one thing that will cause Control4 employees and dealers to be concerned, I think it would also make those who run this forum be concerned, as they are dealers (CytexOne). They're pretty hands off, thankfully, but I'd imagine that not too many examples of a user posting content from the official forums, and that user wouldn't be welcome here anymore.

Like I said, it's certainly not a threat, as I have virtually no power over what happens on here (trust me, there are others besides ILoveC4 that I would've gladly throttled *way* before this incident!).

But it makes sense to me that it's not a wise thing to continue doing.

RyanE

[dgbrown]

Makes sense Ryan. I assume the target of your past desires to throttle include both dealer and C4 customers, as both parties here can exhibit a complete lack of decorum. As a company I would be equally concerned with the behaviour of my sole distribution channel, my dealer network, and the proper treatment (or lack there of) of my customer base.

While this group of enthusiasts represents a small percentage of the overall customer base, I would think it still remains a desirable demographic.

Perhaps some "sensitivity training" would be a good addition to the C4 Dealer training.

Edited to add:

Once we've all had enough, this thread should go the way of the dinosaurs at some point. I'm not sure it qualifies as a positive reference piece for humankind.

[CFUG]

While this group of enthusiasts represents a small percentage of the overall customer base, I would think it still remains a desirable demographic..

Small slice? What you think anyone who comes on this forum who shows an interest in leveraging performance to dollars spent is a "small %age"?

The whole point (because I still don't see why all the fuss over just another way to navigate), seems to be what Dan already mentioned. You pay, you own. Even a dealer told me this right here a few posts up.

Got news for you, there is a HIGH percentage who have already paid through the nose for things like $1300 7"TSs and $3000 HC1000s, $400 Media Players that hardly do anything and wimpy HC300s that can't cut it on 2.0, iSomething licensing fees, on and on. Even my dealer has paid, to some extent, by wasting his time chasing bugs on the phone with Support to no resolution.

Maybe I am beginning to see some point here. I think someone already mentioned it- it's a simple hack and all poeple want is for it to be available up-front. It's in the code, it's been paid for it just needs to be brought to the front.

Again, I don't need or want this but if your are trying to provide exceutive summary of this crappy thread, please do it properly.

[bhadams]

Kevin L and dogdvr, the two of you are Control 4 dealers. This is your industry. Your occupation. You represent your own companies and Control 4 as a whole. C4’s public image, whether in the news or in a ridiculous forum site like this, can and will effect bottom lines. DIYs will do what they want, dealers will do what they want. But why you would choose to represent yourselves so unprofessionally is startling. I don’t disagree with your message, but with your delivery. I hope that none of the clients or potential clients of my close dealer friends stumble upon any of your recent posts. It could be damaging.

[Letran]

Kevin L and dogdvr, the two of you are Control 4 dealers. This is your industry. Your occupation. You represent your own companies and Control 4 as a whole. C4’s public image, whether in the news or in a ridiculous forum site like this, can and will effect bottom lines. DIYs will do what they want, dealers will do what they want. But why you would choose to represent yourselves so unprofessionally is startling. I don’t disagree with your message, but with your delivery. I hope that none of the clients or potential clients of my close dealer friends stumble upon any of your recent posts. It could be damaging.

I 100% agree. I would even go as far as to say that the message right or wrong gets lost with the delivery. I'm not inviting any conflict. Merely stating that in any discusion, any conversation, any interaction, any forum that as people and individuals that we address anyone and everyone, friend or foe with human civility.

[CFUG]

Kevin L and dogdvr, the two of you are Control 4 dealers. This is your industry. Your occupation. You represent your own companies and Control 4 as a whole. C4’s public image, whether in the news or in a ridiculous forum site like this, can and will effect bottom lines. DIYs will do what they want, dealers will do what they want. But why you would choose to represent yourselves so unprofessionally is startling. I don’t disagree with your message, but with your delivery. I hope that none of the clients or potential clients of my close dealer friends stumble upon any of your recent posts. It could be damaging.

They aren't alone. I've encountered a few others who just don't care about anyone but themselves and even go so far as to threaten clients when they think the end-user isn't playing their game. I have not had anything remotely close to this with my AMX experience- just Control4 dealer body.

One more thing, why is it I keep seeing individuals come on here with one or two posts asking Tech I-type questions? This alone is cheesey as hell. Unless they are HOs w/CPro, I'd say the training is not sinking in or Control4 will take anybody.